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PICList Thread
'TIP - ZIF socket'
1999\01\27@141547 by Eduardo R.

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>>I then use good quality turned pin sockets on the
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am trying to figure how does the popular turned pin socket look like ?

Could someone, please,  help me to identify which one of the many sockets I
know are you refering to.

Thank you


{Quote hidden}

Best wishes
                Eduardo R

AC Power Control project based on PIC
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Cove/4535
ICQ# 10909825
spam_OUTeriveraTakeThisOuTspamumemphis.campus.mci.net

        CHILDHOOD CANCER
"Anyone whose family hasn't been touched by it
should get down on his knees every night and
thank the MAN upstairs"...........SAM COOPER

1999\01\27@155859 by Quentin

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"Eduardo R." wrote:
>
> >>I then use good quality turned pin sockets on the
>                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> I am trying to figure how does the popular turned pin socket look like ?
>
>  Could someone, please,  help me to identify which one of the many sockets I
> know are you refering to.
>
>  Thank you
>
I call them "Tulip" type sockets (don't ask me why , maybe the pins
looks like a Tulip flower? )
It is the ones with the round sockets and pins.

Quentin

1999\01\27@202420 by Corey Drechsler

picon face
This type of sockets is also commonly refered to as "machine pin"
sockets.

Corey Drechsler



Quentin wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\01\28@030359 by Sam Powell

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If you meant what does it look like...

Its like a normal Dual inline except from top down there are not 'slits' in
the sides but instead circular holes for the chips to be plugged into...
Personally I dont know why their so good...


{Original Message removed}

1999\01\28@043153 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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Turned pin IC Sockets are generaly lower profile than the cheaper type which
can be an issue in some designs.

Personally, for repeated insertions I find the best thing to plug into a
turned pin socket is...another turned pin socket.  Their worst aspect is
that the metal they are made from seems to fatigue very easily.  You
generaly get ONE chance at straightening a bent pin(s) and even then there
is a danger of leaving a pin in the PCB socket on the next removal.  Thing
to do is always use an IC extractor, or use a screwdriver to carefully lever
the socket up from both ends.  There's always a strong temptation to just
use your fingers when no suitable tool is to hand and bent/broken pins
result 99% of the time.

Mike Rigby-Jones
.....mrjonesKILLspamspam@spam@nortelnetworks.com


{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

1999\01\28@130736 by FThompson9

picon face
   I have found a Digi-Key part which I think they call Low Insertion Fource
Socket.  On the top it has little plastic rails that when pushed down, spread
the pins inside the socket so that you can insert your PIC with little effort.
There are two nice things about these sockets.  First they are cheaper than
the ZIF sockets.  Second the pins on the bottom are very similar to DIP pins.
I soldered ZIF sockets into my programmer, but I use this one LIF socket in my
projects.  I just plug the LIF into the socket that will eventually receive
the PIC, and use it for the debugging cycle.  When the debugging is done, I
pull the LIF and plug the PIC in its place.  Right now I have it on my
protoboard while I debug my SIMM data logger.

Later
Pherd

1999\01\28@152009 by John Payson

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|Turned pin IC Sockets are generaly lower profile than the cheaper type which
|can be an issue in some designs.

|Personally, for repeated insertions I find the best thing to plug into a
|turned pin socket is...another turned pin socket.  Their worst aspect is
|that the metal they are made from seems to fatigue very easily.

If a new chip is carefully placed into a new machine pin socket,
the pins will actually form gas-tight connections with the socket
and the resulting assembly is quite robust.

After a chip and/or socket is used for awhile, though, the metal
can start to fatigue and the connections are no longer as robust.

For micros going into harsh environments, where the code is not
likely to change, a machine-pin socket is the way to go.  For ap-
plications where more frequent insertion is expected, quality dou-
ble leaf-spring sockets will be reliable longer.

When doing development on a board which will eventually be sitting
in a harsh environment (with no further code changes expected) it
may be a good idea to place a machine socket on the board and then
place into that either another machine-pin socket or an Aries(R)
ZIF socket.  Once development is complete, the second socket can be
removed and the chip placed in the bottom one (where it will only be
the second device the socket ever contained--so the socket should be
good).

1999\01\28@153925 by w. v. ooijen / f. hanneman

picon face
> >>I then use good quality turned pin sockets on the
>                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> I am trying to figure how does the popular turned pin socket look like ?
>
>  Could someone, please,  help me to identify which one of the many
sockets I
> know are you refering to.

In the local electronics shop and mail order outlet only two types of
sockest are sold:
cheap ones have more or less flat pins (which can easlily bend), the more
expensive
ones have round pins (which do not bend but can break if you are
persistent).

Does this help?
Wouter.

1999\01\28@161633 by Engineering Department

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<w. v. ooijen / f. hanneman writes>


>> >>I then use good quality turned pin sockets on the
>>                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> I am trying to figure how does the popular turned pin socket look like ?
>>
>>  Could someone, please,  help me to identify which one of the many
>sockets I
>> know are you refering to.
>
>In the local electronics shop and mail order outlet only two types of
>sockest are sold:
>cheap ones have more or less flat pins (which can easlily bend), the more
>expensive

These are "leaf action" or "wiper" sockets.  The connections are not very
gas tight
and they don't hold the IC very tightly.  Good for repeated insertions
though.

>ones have round pins (which do not bend but can break if you are
>persistent).


Those are the "turned pin" or "machined" sockets you are looking for.  They
hold the IC very tightly and make a good gas tight seal.  Not good for
repeated insertions.


Cheers,

Win Wiencke
Image Logic Corporation
EraseMEImageLogicspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTibm.net

1999\01\28@192957 by efan Sayer

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Michael Rigby-Jones wrote:

> [...]

>
> Personally, for repeated insertions I find the best thing to plug into a
> turned pin socket is...another turned pin socket.  Their worst aspect is
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree!
> that the metal they are made from seems to fatigue very easily.  You
> generaly get ONE chance at straightening a bent pin(s) and even then there
> is a danger of leaving a pin in the PCB socket on the next removal.  Thing
If you really need to repair one of this sockets you better remove the
pin by heating it with a soldering iron and then quickly pressing it
through the hole in the plastic. Then you can insert an intact pin from
another socket (which you can get the same way)
btw: single pins can be very useful to make sockets for exotic parts...

> to do is always use an IC extractor, or use a screwdriver to carefully lever
> the socket up from both ends.  There's always a strong temptation to just
> use your fingers when no suitable tool is to hand and bent/broken pins
> result 99% of the time.
you have to apply as much pressure as possible on the upper socket with
your fingers. Then this decreases to ~5% <g>
Or use a 'Backhaus' (I don't know the English name), a medical tool
which looks (a bit) like this:


    (...) (...)
      X XX X
       XOOX
       _XX_
      /    \
     /      \
     |      |
      \_  _/

(I always wonder how they do this fancy ASCII art...)
Stefan Sayer  sayerspamspam_OUTgmx.de

>
> Mike Rigby-Jones
> @spam@mrjonesKILLspamspamnortelnetworks.com
>

1999\01\28@200330 by dave vanhorn

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>> Personally, for repeated insertions I find the best thing to plug into a
>> turned pin socket is...another turned pin socket.  Their worst aspect is
>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree!
>> that the metal they are made from seems to fatigue very easily.  You
>> generaly get ONE chance at straightening a bent pin(s) and even then there
>> is a danger of leaving a pin in the PCB socket on the next removal.  Thing


Screw machine sockets are good, if you won't use them too many times.
Paradoxically, the good old AMP sidewipe is the most reliable for
development work, and it works well enough in production and long term,
that I'm not sure why the screw machine ones are still around.

I'll use them maybe on an emulator pod as sacrificial pins.

1999\01\28@211337 by Bob Drzyzgula

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On Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 07:52:41PM -0500, dave vanhorn wrote:
> Screw machine sockets are good, if you won't use them too many times.
> Paradoxically, the good old AMP sidewipe is the most reliable for
> development work, and it works well enough in production and long term,
> that I'm not sure why the screw machine ones are still around.

C'mon. They're prettier, more expensive and give the
appearance of precision engineering. What more do you
need? :-)

Seriously, I've also had a lot of trouble with them
disintegrating after a small bend in the pins. Another
problem I've had (related to the topic of this thread)
is the pins pushing up through the plastic when you try
to stack them into a tight socket below. And this is
with Mil-Max sockets. This really can't happen with the
side-wipe sockets. You can get a whole cabinet full of 300
generic side-wipe sockets of various sizes from Jameco
for $35, which works out to like 12 cents per socket if
you ignore the cabinet.

The main thing I like the machined pin sockets for is
wire-wrap. I don't know that you can get any other kind of
wire-wrap socket. I also haven't noticed side-wipe sockets
for the PIC16C76, which needs the skinny 0.3" wide 28-pin
sockets. But I may just not have looked hard enough.

--Bob

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
KILLspambobKILLspamspamdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================

1999\01\28@211740 by Keith M. Wheeler

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At 07:52 PM 1/28/99 -0500, dave vanhorn wrote:
>Screw machine sockets are good, if you won't use them too many times.
>Paradoxically, the good old AMP sidewipe is the most reliable for
>development work, and it works well enough in production and long term,
>that I'm not sure why the screw machine ones are still around.
>
>I'll use them maybe on an emulator pod as sacrificial pins.
>
>

Ever use the sidewipe type in an automotive application?  We had
a situation where a tech installed a sidewipe socket on a board
that was to be in a race car, a place were "good enough" isn't.
The processor fell out.  Fortunately this was a "for fun" project,
otherwise it could've been ugly.  That particular board still has
a sidewipe socket, but the PIC is held in place with a cable tie.

My boss told me how they qualified sockets in the video game
industry:  they put 'em on a board mounted to a shaker.  If the
chip fell out in a certain period of time, it was a no-go.

Another problem with sidewipe sockets is the chips will creep
out due to thermal expansion.  Go find an old video game or
any other machine that's had a lot of thermal cycles in its life,
and go through the board and push the chips back into their
sockets.  You'll be surprised.

-Keith Wheeler
Firmware Engineer
ARMA Design                             http://www.ARMAnet.com/

1999\01\28@224537 by dave vanhorn

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>The main thing I like the machined pin sockets for is
>wire-wrap. I don't know that you can get any other kind of
>wire-wrap socket. I also haven't noticed side-wipe sockets
>for the PIC16C76, which needs the skinny 0.3" wide 28-pin
>sockets. But I may just not have looked hard enough.

You can always plug a sidewipe into your ww socket so you get sockets that
last :)

I imagine amp makes them for anything with pins, but 28 narrows are
probably not popular shelf stock.

1999\01\28@224756 by dave vanhorn

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>Ever use the sidewipe type in an automotive application?  We had
>a situation where a tech installed a sidewipe socket on a board
>that was to be in a race car, a place were "good enough" isn't.
>The processor fell out.  Fortunately this was a "for fun" project,
>otherwise it could've been ugly.  That particular board still has
>a sidewipe socket, but the PIC is held in place with a cable tie.

I don't do high vibration, My stuff sits on a desk for years. It does get
shipped tran-pac by barge, but no problems so far. I've been known to take
a pallet of terminals and shove them off the third-floor loading dock to
check the packaging though.

>Another problem with sidewipe sockets is the chips will creep
>out due to thermal expansion.  Go find an old video game or
>any other machine that's had a lot of thermal cycles in its life,
>and go through the board and push the chips back into their
>sockets.  You'll be surprised.

This, I should have run into in 10 years and 5M systems, but I haven't seen
it yet. Some of our oldest systems had eproms mounted on the bottom of the
board as well, which would of course tend to fall out.

I donno, I just pass on my experience FWIW.

1999\01\28@230206 by Dwayne Reid

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>Screw machine sockets are good, if you won't use them too many times.
>Paradoxically, the good old AMP sidewipe is the most reliable for
>development work, and it works well enough in production and long term,
>that I'm not sure why the screw machine ones are still around.

I have found the AMP 'diplomate' IC sockets (the 'sidewipe' sockets Dave is
talking about, above) to be the most reliable socket for production, period.
They continue to maintain a low resistance connection even after being
exposed to H2S (hydrogen sulfide) - no other socket I have tried has survived.

One great place for machined pin sockets is on home made double sided PC
boards without plated through holes.  It is very easy to solder the pins to
the top side pads because of the clearance between the socket body and the
board.  Almost no other socket works as well for this application.

Another great use for machined pin sockets is for little test jigs that you
want to connect to your breadboards with 24 AWG telephone wire.  I keep a
bunch of 25 and 50 pair 24 guage telco wire around to make all the little
jumpers I use in the solderless breadboards.  You know what I'm talking
about - the stuff that used to be used for old PABX phone systems.   It just
so happens that those pins are a perfect fit to that wire.

dwayne


Dwayne Reid   <RemoveMEdwaynerTakeThisOuTspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(403) 489-3199 voice     (403) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 15 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 1999)

1999\01\28@230221 by Dwayne Reid

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Bob Drzyzgula wrote:

>I also haven't noticed side-wipe sockets
>for the PIC16C76, which needs the skinny 0.3" wide 28-pin
>sockets. But I may just not have looked hard enough.

I just use 2 - 14 pin AMP diplomate sockets stacked end to end.  Many
thousands of them out there in the cold, abusive world and all working just
fine!

dwayne


Dwayne Reid   <spamBeGonedwaynerspamBeGonespamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(403) 489-3199 voice     (403) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 15 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 1999)

1999\01\28@231214 by dave vanhorn

flavicon
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>I have found the AMP 'diplomate' IC sockets (the 'sidewipe' sockets Dave is
>talking about, above) to be the most reliable socket for production, period.
>They continue to maintain a low resistance connection even after being
>exposed to H2S (hydrogen sulfide) - no other socket I have tried has survived.

Ont thing though, I did run into some honest-to-god counterfits. They
looked great, but when you applied solder and heat, that silver coating
peeled back and revealed a black pin that wouldn't accept solder with a $50
bribe.  I still check sockets before installing them by heating a pin and
watching it.

1999\01\28@231224 by Alan King

picon face
Stefan Sayer wrote:

> Michael Rigby-Jones wrote:
>
> > turned pin socket is...another turned pin socket.  Their worst aspect is
>                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree!
> > that the metal they are made from seems to fatigue very easily.  You
> > generaly get ONE chance at straightening a bent pin(s) and even then there
> > is a danger of leaving a pin in the PCB socket on the next removal.  Thing

 Common misconception.  When you bend the round pin, you stretch the outer side
(you don't really compress the inside much at all..)  and when you then
'straighten' it, you are mainly stretching the inner side to equal it.  If you
bend both 90 deg, the flat pin's outer side stretches much less and is stretched
less when you straightened it.  YOU weakened the round pin a lot more, because i
t
took a lot more energy to bend it X deg and then straighten it.  Stands to reaso
n,
you know it took a lot more effort on the pliers when you straightened the round
pin vs a flat one..  Similar to why a solid rod is not as strong as a hollow tub
e
the same diameter with the right wall thickness.

1999\01\28@233523 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
>>I have found the AMP 'diplomate' IC sockets (the 'sidewipe' sockets Dave is
>>talking about, above) to be the most reliable socket for production, period.
>>They continue to maintain a low resistance connection even after being
>>exposed to H2S (hydrogen sulfide) - no other socket I have tried has survived.
>
>Ont thing though, I did run into some honest-to-god counterfits. They
>looked great, but when you applied solder and heat, that silver coating
>peeled back and revealed a black pin that wouldn't accept solder with a $50
>bribe.  I still check sockets before installing them by heating a pin and
>watching it.

Thanks for the heads-up, Dave!  Any idea where you purchased them from?  So
far, we've been lucky.  Our suppliers are honest-to-goodness AMP
distributers (FAI, I think) and I haven't been told of any problems to date.

dwayne


Dwayne Reid   <TakeThisOuTdwaynerEraseMEspamspam_OUTplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(403) 489-3199 voice     (403) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 15 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 1999)

1999\01\29@002009 by dave vanhorn

flavicon
face
>Thanks for the heads-up, Dave!  Any idea where you purchased them from?  So
>far, we've been lucky.  Our suppliers are honest-to-goodness AMP
>distributers (FAI, I think) and I haven't been told of any problems to date.

It's been a long time. I just wanted to warn about the possibility. They
said AMP on them, but I don't believe they came from amp for a minute. They
werent tinned, although they looked it. They were plated.

1999\01\29@021805 by Russell McMahon

picon face
>>Screw machine sockets are good, if you won't use them too many
times.
>>Paradoxically, the good old AMP sidewipe is the most reliable for
>>development work, and it works well enough in production and long
term,
>>that I'm not sure why the screw machine ones are still around.
>
>I have found the AMP 'diplomate' IC sockets (the 'sidewipe' sockets
Dave is
>talking about, above) to be the most reliable socket for production,
period.
>They continue to maintain a low resistance connection even after
being
>exposed to H2S (hydrogen sulfide) - no other socket I have tried has
survived.


I have had total success with AMP Diplomate sockets in small volume
production in applications where you usually put an IC in once and
;eave it there (until; it dies or you MUST remove it to trouble-shoot
a problem) - I would recommend them happily.

Machine screw sockets are especially useful in my experience where
alimited number of insertion/removal cycles are required.
I too use them as sockets for prototyping to protect the removable
cpu - MC socket on IC plugging into eg diplomate seems to work well.




regards

           Russell McMahon

1999\01\29@085144 by paulb

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Stefan Sayer wrote:

> btw: single pins can be very useful to make sockets for exotic
> parts...

 I scored a small quantity of machined-pin sockets with no insulator.
They come on a carrier which is plugged into the pins when supplied.
The assembly is placed into the PCB, soldered in place, then the carrier
removed and the IC inserted.

 For soldering the top on non plated-through boards these are the
*best*, for obvious reason.  Also for ultra-high input impedance op-amps
and the like.

{Quote hidden}

 That's a mean-looking thing.  I don't quite recognise it! (;-)
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\01\29@092210 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
At 12:49 AM 1/30/99 +1000, you wrote:
>
>> Or use a 'Backhaus' (I don't know the English name), a medical tool
>> which looks (a bit) like this:
>>
>>      (...) (...)
>>        X XX X
>>         XOOX
>>         _XX_
>>        /    \
>>       /      \
>>       |      |
>>        \_  _/
>
>  That's a mean-looking thing.  I don't quite recognise it! (;-)

Wow, it sure is mean lookin! I hope nobody uses that on me anytime soon.
Perhaps he means a hemostat, although there is little resemblence except
fro the apparent scizzors action?


Sean


>--
>  Cheers,
>        Paul B.
>
+---------------*----------------+
| Sean Breheny                   |
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM |
| Electrical Engineering Student |
+---------------*----------------+
Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org
Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
RemoveMEshb7spamTakeThisOuTcornell.edu  Phone(USA): (607) 253-0315 ICQ #: 3329174

1999\01\29@093723 by Quentin

flavicon
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Oh, is that what it is.
I thought it was Bugs Bunny with his ears twisted.

:)
TGIF!
Quentin

1999\01\29@115424 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, dave vanhorn wrote:
> It's been a long time. I just wanted to warn about the possibility. They
> said AMP on them, but I don't believe they came from amp for a minute. They
> werent tinned, although they looked it. They were plated.


I was given several tubes of these a few years ago. Evil!

-bob

1999\01\29@194005 by Lee Jones

flavicon
face
>> Or use a 'Backhaus' (I don't know the English name), a
>> medical tool which looks (a bit) like this:
>>
>>      (...) (...)
>>        X XX X
>>         XOOX
>>         _XX_
>>        /    \
>>       /      \
>>       |      |
>>        \_  _/

> Perhaps he means a hemostat, although there is little resemblence
> except fro the apparent scizzors action?


I think  forceps  would be the right English term.

                                               Lee Jones

1999\01\30@070306 by paulb

flavicon
face
Lee Jones (and others) wrote:

> >> Or use a 'Backhaus' (I don't know the English name), a
> >> medical tool which looks (a bit) like this:
> >>
> >>      (...) (...)
> >>        X XX X
> >>         XOOX
> >>         _XX_
> >>        /    \
> >>       /      \
> >>       |      |
> >>        \_  _/

> > Perhaps he means a hemostat, although there is little resemblence
> > except fro the apparent scizzors action?

> I think  forceps  would be the right English term.

 No it definitely is not an artery forcep!  On consideration, it looks
most like a towel clip, which is designed to hold at one point but clear
teh bulk of the material.  The ones we currently use though have oblique
toothed jaws which would be rather difficult to place under and IC and
lift.  The older ones have single points and the same applies.

 I can think of no medical instrument with the flat blades of a
purpose-made IC puller though there may well be some orthopaedic (bone)
instruments of which I am unaware.
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

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