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PICList Thread
'Revision Control'
1998\03\05@171050 by Bob Fehrenbach

picon face
Tom Handley <spam_OUTthandleyTakeThisOuTspamTELEPORT.COM> wrote:
>>Andrew Warren writes:
>>>    Hmm... If I'd been alive in the '50s,
>
>   Geesh Andy, that `hurts'! I was in 6th grade at the time. Or was that
>7th grade?

  Another whippersnapper.


But seriously folks ...

Does anybody here use revision control software.  I have been using RCS,
one of the GNU utilities, for a long time and would not be without it or
smemthing equivlaent.  Unfortunately it is a DOS based, command line
driven set of programs and evidently too complex for the younger members
of our company to grasp.  Did I mention that it is a free program.

One of my sons (A C programmer) works at a different where they use
something from Micro$oft that seems to the trick for them.  I have
also heard of PVCS but don't know anything about it.

Perhaps a few people would be willing to share their experiences.


--
Bob Fehrenbach    Wauwatosa, WI     .....bfehrenbKILLspamspam@spam@execpc.com

1998\03\06@022601 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   Does anybody here use revision control software.  I have been using RCS,
   one of the GNU utilities, for a long time and would not be without it or
   smemthing equivlaent.  Unfortunately it is a DOS based, command line
   driven set of programs and evidently too complex for the younger members
   of our company to grasp.  Did I mention that it is a free program.

Cisco has been throught (nothing), RCS, CVS, and now "ClearCase" as we grew
and the previous solutions failed to scale.  Since the CVS time, we've done
little wrappers and custom changes to prevent the users (that's me) from
needing to mess with the gritty details.  RCS was fine for a relatively
small number of engineers.  CVS was good for a large number of engineers -
each would get their own copy of everything and then things would get merged
back together.  That broken when each engineer needed about 2G to compile
everything.  Clearcase gives the illusion of a private copy of everything
while sharing the actual storage, but it's perceived to slow everything
down (whether it really does is hard to tell, given that moving to it
also involved a new compute environment.)

It SHOULD be possible to put some "modern" wrappers around RCS, if RCS is
otherwise sufficient.  I have an emacs macro that I bind to a key so that if
I need to edit a file, I type ^C O, and the file gets the equivilent of
"checked out" for any of the three environments, for example.

BillW

1998\03\06@043439 by Orin Eman

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face
> Does anybody here use revision control software.  I have been using RCS,
> one of the GNU utilities, for a long time and would not be without it or
> smemthing equivlaent.  Unfortunately it is a DOS based, command line
> driven set of programs and evidently too complex for the younger members
> of our company to grasp.  Did I mention that it is a free program.

> One of my sons (A C programmer) works at a different where they use
> something from Micro$oft that seems to the trick for them.  I have
> also heard of PVCS but don't know anything about it.

Source Safe probably.  It's OK, but if you have different branches
of the same code and need to label things apparantly, it isn't
as good as PVCS.  I'm using both at work at the moment,
the command line version of PVCS and "Visual Source Safe" which
looks like an Explorer window.  Source Safe is supposed to integrate
with the Visual C++ IDE, but it never seems to work for me.

I remember using SCCS a long time ago... PVCS seems to be
about the same in complexity... get -l is checkout and
put checks back in.

Orin.

1998\03\06@065455 by Alan G. Smith

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face
>Perhaps a few people would be willing to share their experiences.

I have used PVCS (command line and GUI), Source Safe, and RCS.

Personally, I prefer them in this order:
Source Safe -
   incredibly EASY to use and works intuitively
(has command line interface for batches, interfaces pretty easily to most
environments)
PVCS (commandline) -
    Great for command line/make projects.  Most environments come with
an interface for it.
PVCS (GUI)
   The GUI is AWFUL!!!  It is not intuitive and is easy to make a mistake.
Sharing files between
projects exposes the user to too much information for how it works.
However, PVCS is a champ
at branches and such.

RCS -
   Well, you get what you pay for.........  (But this is still better than
nothing)

HTH,

Alan G. Smith




+---------------------------------------------------------
| Alan G. Smith
| agsspamKILLspampoboxes.com
| http://www.innovatus.com/ags

1998\03\06@073456 by n/a

flavicon
face
Bob Fehrenbach wrote:

> Does anybody here use revision control software.  I have been using RCS,
> one of the GNU utilities, for a long time and would not be without it or
> smemthing equivlaent.  Unfortunately it is a DOS based, command line
> driven set of programs and evidently too complex for the younger members
> of our company to grasp.  Did I mention that it is a free program.

> Perhaps a few people would be willing to share their experiences.

I am a hobbiest programmer and have learned from past mistakes that
Revision Control is invaluable for keeping me sane after making the
3 am deletion or fixing just one more thing.

The only place I haven't used it so far has been in my intro comp
sci. courses. But I usually belt those proograms out in a few hours
anyway.

I highly recommend getting used to using a revision control system
it well worth the effort and on really large projects it's a must.

BTW I also use RCS, I have all my projects stored under my Linux
server.

--
Neil Cherry     http://home.att.net/~ncherry    .....ncherryKILLspamspam.....worldnet.att.net

1998\03\06@073704 by n/a

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face
William Chops Westfield wrote:

> I need to edit a file, I type ^C O, and the file gets the equivilent of
> "checked out" for any of the three environments, for example.

Bill would you mind sending the elisp code my way for RCS?

Thanks

--
Neil Cherry     http://home.att.net/~ncherry    EraseMEncherryspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTworldnet.att.net

1998\03\06@092740 by Bob Fehrenbach

picon face
William Chops Westfield <billwspamspam_OUTCISCO.COM> wrote:
>It SHOULD be possible to put some "modern" wrappers around RCS,

  I have seen a shareware package that does something like this.
  I did not spend any time trying it because I had already worked
  out the command line stuff.

  I usually add something like the following to the bottom of
  the makefile:


   # RCS Utilities:
                                  #These assume a directory 'RCS' just
                                  #under the working directory.


put:                               #Check out the project files from
       ci *.asm                       #archive.
       ci *.inc
       ci -u makefile

get:                               #Check revised files into archive.
       co RCS/*.asm                   #Note: RCS is somewhat case dependent
       co RCS/*.inc                   #and likes '/' not '\'.

nolock:                            #Disable locking.  I'm the only one
       rcs -U RCS/*.*                 #working on these modules.

name:                              #Give a group of revisions a name.
       rcs -n$(name): RCS/*.asm       #A given project release will typically
       rcs -n$(name): RCS/*.inc       #have different revisions among the
       rcs -n$(name): RCS/makefile    #various modules.   e.g.:
                                  #  make name name=Rel_1_3

find:
       co -r$(name) RCS/*.asm         #Get the various revisions corresponding
       co -r$(name) RCS/*.inc         #to a given release.
       co -r$(name) RCS/makefile      #   make find name=Rel_1_3



This may be a little crude but it works for projects typical of the
scope of a PIC project.   It has saved my butt on more than one occasion.


--
Bob Fehrenbach    Wauwatosa, WI     @spam@bfehrenbKILLspamspamexecpc.com

1998\03\06@131731 by Craig Lee

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face
I still prefer SCCS.  It's all command line, and I like it's
implementation.
Perhaps it is just indoctrination.

Does anyone know if it is available for Windoze or just Doze?

I'm currently in the process of writing a sockets driver to a Linux machine
so I can use Linux as my control machine.  Then you don't have problems
with your Win95 box scribbling your file locking or your files..

I have PVCS integrated into Borland 5.1.  This GUI seems to be fairly
intuitive, but it is the stripped down version.

Craig

----------
{Quote hidden}

mistake.
> Sharing files between
> projects exposes the user to too much information for how it works.
> However, PVCS is a champ
> at branches and such.
>
> RCS -
>     Well, you get what you pay for.........  (But this is still better
than
{Quote hidden}

1998\03\06@180352 by Eric Smith

flavicon
face
Craig Lee <TakeThisOuTcraigleeEraseMEspamspam_OUTAGT.NET> wrote:
> I still prefer SCCS.  It's all command line, and I like it's
> implementation.
> Perhaps it is just indoctrination.

My biggest gripe with SCCS is that it stores the deltas in the wrong order.
It stores the base file and a series of deltas for newer versions, whereas
most source/version control stores the latest version and deltas to get
older versions.  Thus with SCCS, the more history a file has, the longer
it takes to check it out.

My other gripe with SCCS is that CVS doesn't work with it.  :-)

Cheers,
Eric

1998\03\06@180441 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
I'm not entirelt sure that the rcs command I use here is original or a
cisco wrapper, but the principal remains the same...


(defun rcs-check-out-file ()
 (interactive)
 ;;; check for clearcase environment
 (if (file-exists-p (concat (buffer-file-name) "@@/main/LATEST"))
     (progn
       (shell-command (concat "cleartool co -nc " (buffer-file-name)))
       (revert-buffer t (not (buffer-modified-p)))
     )
   ;;; else  (check for RCS environment)
   (if (file-exists-p "./RCS")
       (progn
         (shell-command (concat "co -l " (buffer-file-name)))
         (revert-buffer t (not (buffer-modified-p)))
         )
   ;;; else (check for CVS environment)
     (if (file-exists-p "./CVS")
         (progn
           (shell-command (concat "chmod u+w " (buffer-file-name)))
           (revert-buffer t (not (buffer-modified-p)))
           )
       )
     )
   )
 )

(define-key global-map "\C-c\C-o" 'rcs-check-out-file)

1998\03\08@013926 by Nicholas Irias

flavicon
face
> Does anybody here use revision control software.  I have been using RCS,
> one of the GNU utilities, for a long time and would not be without it or
> smemthing equivlaent.  Unfortunately it is a DOS based, command line
> driven set of programs and evidently too complex for the younger members
> of our company to grasp.  Did I mention that it is a free program.
>
> One of my sons (A C programmer) works at a different where they use
> something from Micro$oft that seems to the trick for them.  I have
> also heard of PVCS but don't know anything about it.
>
> Perhaps a few people would be willing to share their experiences.
>

I use Perforce, which offers more capable branching and labeling than
VSS (the Microsoft version control).  I believe it is still the fastest
version
control system on the market.

The clients run on most platforms, and the server runs on Win NT, and
most flavors of Unix, including Linux.

You can get an unbroken eval copy at their web page, http://www.perforce.com.
The eval doesnt expire and isnt broken -  it just limits you to 2 users
till
you buy a license.

1998\03\10@091504 by Lou Calkins

flavicon
face
I use PVCS under DOS (actually under the MKS Toolkit Korn shell under DOS).
It is also usable under Windows, but it is not free.  Mine is an old
version, and now it is pretty expensive.  If you like RCS, MKS has Source
Integrity which is really their RCS product with a new name.  I have not
used it, but MKS makes some pretty good stuff and superb support if you pay
for the service contract.

{Quote hidden}

1998\03\10@102533 by

flavicon
face
I've used MKS RCS ( Which is adequate and does the job ) for windows and
DOS.

I currently use Microsoft SourceSafe ( Which is also adequate and does
the job ) It's also very easy to setup and use, and it comes free with
the Enterprise development environments. I prefer it to RCS. One problem
we have had with SourceSafe is with corruption of the database over long
periods - this _may_ be a consideration when choosing a source control
system. ;-)

My colleagues experiences with PVCS are that it is complex to set up and
use, although it seems to have more facilities than SourceSafe.

I've also seen a product demo'd called Continuus/CM from the Continuus
Software Corporation which is expensive, but is on a different level
altegether. It provides change management on a 'Fault' based or change
basis - you change code against a 'Fault' or change request and when you
release your final build, instead of releasing module1.c module2.c and
module3.c, you release Faults 1 and 2, and the CM package works out which
versions of the source to put into the released build.

In large projects, this is an enormous help as your test team can test a
version of the build with Faults a,b and c fixed, whilst the development
team continue regardless. When release time comes, you know Faults a,b
and c are fixed and tested and none of your renegade developers have
slipped a couple of untested fixes in. Your final build becomes 1.x.x.x
containing fixes a,b,c.

Hope this helps
Neil


----------
From:  Lou Calkins
Sent:  10 March 1998 13:52
To:  RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject:  Revision Control

I use PVCS under DOS (actually under the MKS Toolkit Korn shell under
DOS).
It is also usable under Windows, but it is not free.  Mine is an old
version, and now it is pretty expensive.  If you like RCS, MKS has Source
Integrity which is really their RCS product with a new name.  I have not
used it, but MKS makes some pretty good stuff and superb support if you
pay
for the service contract.

{Quote hidden}

1998\03\16@070736 by Yura Galayda

flavicon
face
In previous message, Nicholas Irias said:
> > Does anybody here use revision control software.  I have been using RCS,
> > one of the GNU utilities, for a long time and would not be without it or
> > smemthing equivlaent.  Unfortunately it is a DOS based, command line
> > driven set of programs and evidently too complex for the younger members
> > of our company to grasp.  Did I mention that it is a free program.
> > One of my sons (A C programmer) works at a different where they use
> > something from Micro$oft that seems to the trick for them.  I have
> > also heard of PVCS but don't know anything about it.
> > Perhaps a few people would be willing to share their experiences.
> I use Perforce, which offers more capable branching and labeling than
> VSS (the Microsoft version control).  I believe it is still the fastest
> version
> control system on the market.
> The clients run on most platforms, and the server runs on Win NT, and
> most flavors of Unix, including Linux.
> You can get an unbroken eval copy at their web page, http://www.perforce.com.
> The eval doesnt expire and isnt broken -  it just limits you to 2 users
> till
> you buy a license.

You can take CVS for Windows 95/NT on http://www.cyclic.com


--
------------
Yuri Galayda at SIC Vector R&D Department       yuraEraseMEspam.....vector.kharkov.ua
PGP public key available  --  finger EraseMEyuraspamvector.kharkov.ua | pgp -kaf

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