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PICList Thread
'40 pin picstart socket.'
1994\06\15@100910 by IDH

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 > >
 > > Can the unused 40 pin pickstart socket be used forprogramming 40 pin
 > > PIC chips?.
 >
 > Don't know. What revision do you have? I have the 16B. No 40pin
 > socket at all.
 >
 > Both of the 40 pin offerings can be programmer serially. Maybe it's
 > possible to create the 5 pin interface necessary to do that on a
 > daughterboard?
 
 My board is marked 04-01315 rev2.  The Firmware chip is marked
 Picstart-16B firmware rev 1.4.  The copyright is  1992.  The location
 of the 40pin socket is market u8.  Can serial programming be done
 using the Picstart Board as the programmer?. (Perhaps this is
 refrasing your last question).
 
                             Ian H.




'Newest PICSTART-16B Firmware'
1994\08\09@223421 by dpalmer
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After reading a message concerning someone having a firmware release of 1.7,
I wanted to know if anyone has a newer version of the firmware or can tell
me if there are any advantages over version 1.5 (which I have).

Darryl Palmer

'Parallax or Picstart?'
1994\08\30@204457 by crocontroller discussion list

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Thanks to everyone who has responded so far to my request for
opinions as to which PIC programmer to buy.  I haven't bought one
yet, but it looks like it's come down to either the PICSTART from
Microchip, or the Parallax programmer, mainly due to cost.

I thought I had settled on the Parallax one, but I found out that there's a
Microchip seminar coming to town (Vancouver), and that I can get the
"PICSTART development system" for $79US there. The seminar costs $99US, so
that puts my total cost at about the same as the Parallax programmer.  They
tell me that the seminar is very informative (5.5 hrs), and that you get
books and _product_samples_ with the PICSTART package.  That part sounds
good to me, but, as I am a beginner, I think the seminar may be way over my
head...

I haven't heard from anyone who has used the PICSTART.  Can someone
please give be a brief comparison of the PICSTART and the Parallax
programmers?

Thanks,


Richard Friesen                         Little Timmy took a drink,
(spam_OUTRichard_FriesenTakeThisOuTspammindlink.bc.ca)         But now he'll drink no more,
                                        For what he thought was H2O
                                        Was H2SO4
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


--


 Richard Friesen                        Little Timmy took a drink,
(.....Richard_FriesenKILLspamspam@spam@mindlink.bc.ca)        But now he'll drink no more,
                                        For what he thought was H2O
                                        Was H2SO4
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

1994\08\30@205739 by crocontroller discussion list

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I use the PICSTART all the time and think it is fine. It doesn't "remember"
the fuse settings so you will program them incorrectly sometimes if you don't
remember to "reset" them. The tools are fine, the documentation is adequate
but poorly formatted on the disk. Once you get past that they are fine. And
since the PICSTART uses the serial port rather than the parallel port it works
on more systems (like my IBM ThinkPad laptop which parallax has said they
won't make it work on, even though it is an *IBM* PC (ISA bus even), and
that is pretty stupid on my part. (ed note, yes I think the Parallax folks
are wankers but that isn't why I don't reccomend their stuff)).

--Chuck

1994\08\30@210154 by crocontroller discussion list

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Richard Friesen prophesized:
> I haven't heard from anyone who has used the PICSTART.  Can someone
> please give be a brief comparison of the PICSTART and the Parallax
> programmers?

Well, (lucky for me), I didn't have to buy two programmers to find one
that did what I needed.  So, I can't compare the two for you.  I have
been happy with Parallax' product.

The one HUGE selling point, in my book, are the Parallax mnemonics
which are very "8051-like".  Actually they're even better than 8051
mnemonics because there are things like "CJE" to complement "CJNE"
(unlike the 8051).  I have yet to learn the cryptic MicroChip
mneumonics which is kind of bad for me when I want to read sample code
from an app note or something.  Made code development a lot quicker,
though.

You should be able to get about the same effect with any decent macro
assembler and your own time.  Maybe the PICSTART package has a macro
assembler (?).


--
Greg Bell        | "Counting SUCKS!"
gregspamKILLspamcqt.com     |          -Beavis
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CommQuest Technologies, Inc.     (619) 633-1618 x133

1994\08\30@223602 by crocontroller discussion list

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> I thought I had settled on the Parallax one, but I found out that there's a
> Microchip seminar coming to town (Vancouver), and that I can get the
> "PICSTART development system" for $79US there. The seminar costs $99US, so
> that puts my total cost at about the same as the Parallax programmer.  They
> tell me that the seminar is very informative (5.5 hrs), and that you get
> books and _product_samples_ with the PICSTART package.  That part sounds
> good to me, but, as I am a beginner, I think the seminar may be way over my
> head...

I attended the PIC seminar in Chicago and thought it was pretty
worthwhile.  Actually, it is pretty much targeted toward people who
know little or nothing about PICs.  So, if that's what you mean by "beginner"
I wouldnt' let that worry you.  It probably would be helpful to have some
experience with other microcontrollers (such as the 8051), but if you have
a whole ot of PIC experience, you would probably find the seminar a little
slow.

I can't say too much about the PICSTART since I haven't used it for any
real projects yet.  I did put it together and verify that it works.

Peter Fales                       AT&T, Room 9C-242
N9IYJ                             2000 N. Naperville Rd.
UUCP:   ...att!intgp1!psfales     Naperville, IL 60566
Internet: .....peter.falesKILLspamspam.....att.com     work: (708) 979-8031

1994\08\31@063339 by crocontroller discussion list

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> I thought I had settled on the Parallax one, but I found out that there's
a
> Microchip seminar coming to town (Vancouver), and that I can get the
> "PICSTART development system" for $79US there. The seminar costs $99US,
so
> that puts my total cost at about the same as the Parallax programmer.
They
> tell me that the seminar is very informative (5.5 hrs), and that you get
> books and _product_samples_ with the PICSTART package.  That part sounds
> good to me, but, as I am a beginner, I think the seminar may be way over
my
> head...

Richard,

I have a PICSTART programmer here and it works ok, and it accepts standard
Intel-hex format files so it will work with all true PIC assemblers
(including, of course ASPIC).  I don't use it primarily due to it's lack of
command line automation, but I believe it can program fuses from the INTEL
HEX file, it's just that MPALC and MPASM won't let you.

DEMO.ZIP  gives an example of programming the fuses for any PIC from the
hex file (including seting the device ID to the compile date and time).
DEMO.ZIP is the complete source code (writtten in ASPIC) to my pocket logic
analyzer that was a winning entry in the Picstart design contest last year.
You can pick it up from my BBS (which should be local for you) at (604)
597-3479 if you want (schematics and block diagrams are available only to
registered ASPIC users though).

The Parallax programmer seems to require that you use their special
assembler which does not compile real PIC code, but rather some sort of
80xx style pseudo-code cross compiler code which is really difficult to
read if you can actually program a PIC.

BOTH Picstart and the Parallax programmers use non-standard interface
protocols and
user-interferance screens (which is why in real life, I actually use the
Microburner from Baradine in North Van.).

I attended the Microchip seminar last time it was in Vancouver and it
really geared towards beginners to the PIC, but I still found it
interesting. The audience ranged from people who wanted to find out what a
PIC is, to people like myself who have written tens of thousands of lines
of PIC code.

- Don
This is not a TRUE internet message since the body is probably longer than
the message header.

1994\08\31@070738 by crocontroller discussion list

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Richard,

I'm glad you put your question about programmers on the table.
As a result, I hope to build a programmer based on the
16c84 programmer that was located at bode.ee.ualberta.ca .
I know it will be a bit of work to make it program a 16c64,
but I think that it will be worthwhile.

Good luck with your decision, and please let us know what
you think of the seminar.

Yours,

Derrick Early

1994\08\31@092117 by crocontroller discussion list

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Hi,

Derrick Early wrote:

> As a result, I hope to build a programmer based on the
> 16c84 programmer that was located at bode.ee.ualberta.ca .

Just a few words of caution about this programmer:

* I developed this project using a 20MHz 386DX machine and have
subsequently found it to be unreliable when used with my 33MHz 486DX.
Obviously a timing problem.  I will try to fix this when I get some
spare time.  It would be useful if anybody that has successfully got
the programmer to work could let me know what type of PC they used.

* Please note that the executable packaged with the programmer info
was built for hardware using a 7406.  If you use a 7407 you must
recompile.  The Qbasic source is also intended for hardware using a
7406.  If you want to use the Qbasic program with 7407 based hardware
then use these definitions

CONST DataInv = 0
CONST VppOn = 8, VppOff = 0, VddOn = 4, VddOff = 0
CONST ClkHi = 2, ClkLo = 0, OutHi = 1, OutLo = 0

Note, due to a typo, the program erroneously suggests that you
should use ClkHi = 4.  Sorry about that.

* If you don't use LS buffers you should substitute a 7805 for the
78L05.

On a happier note, I have designed a PCB for the programmer which
should make life easier for intending constructors (it was while
testing my PCB that I found the timing problem).  The details will be
packaged with the next release of the software (i.e the one that
corrects the timing bug).  I can't promise when that will be ready
though.

It doesn't seem to be as widely known as it should be that there is
information on another 16C84 programmer available on the net.  This
one was designed by Henk Schaer and is (at least was when I last
looked) available as

ftp://sunshine.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de:/pub/private/danny/picprog.zip

I haven't tried it but it might work better than mine :-)

Hope this information will be useful to some of you - sorry for the
junk if not.

--David

P.S. These programmers were both released as copyrighted freeware.
Nobody makes money from them.

1994\08\31@190557 by crocontroller discussion list

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  I thought I had settled on the Parallax one, but I found out that there's a
  Microchip seminar coming to town [...]

The seminar is excellent and I'll admit that if you consider the two
programmers equal, you get better value buying the picstart,
especially at the seminar.  Here in Albuquerque it was an even better
deal -- the PICSTART was US$99, and the seminar was free!

I have the parallax, and I tend to prefer it.  Here are some opinions.
Others may differ.

In Favor Of Parallax:

1. I like the parallax pseudo "8051-like" instruction set.  Parallax's
assembler will work with native instructions as well, so you're not
stuck.

2. Their examples are simple and easy to follow, software is well
documented and easy to use, you're up and running in no time.  Book is
excellent.

3. Programmer remembers fuse settings.

4. Can assemble native code from Microchip's assembler.  Microchip's
assembler doesn't grok the Parallax pseudo instructions, though it's
probably possible with macros.

In Favor Of PICSTART:

1. Both the assembler and the simulator are more sophisticated.
Harder to get used to but definitely more capable once you get going.

2. Assembler can accept more file formats, if you care.

3. Has a ZIF socket.  Parallax uses LIF which is not as nice.

4. Comes with product samples to play with, worth $$$.

Other Info:

1. Parallax uses parallel PC port, PICSTART uses serial.  You could
probably use PICSTART from Linux with the DOS emulator, but you can't
do that with the parallax since the DOS emulator doesn't support the
parallel port.

Well that's all that comes to mind right now.  Generally I'd say if
you're a beginner you'll want the Parallax cuz it's got the easiest
learning curve.  If you're an advanced Microchip hacker, you may want
the better simulator and assembler in the PICSTART.  I'd say if you're
that hardcore, get both kits.  They're cheep!

David

1994\08\31@191842 by crocontroller discussion list

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Hi PICers,

David said,

>
> 1. Parallax uses parallel PC port, PICSTART uses serial.  You could
> probably use PICSTART from Linux with the DOS emulator, but you can't
> do that with the parallax since the DOS emulator doesn't support the
> parallel port.

I know this list is not for Linux discussions, but I must disagree here.
The parallel port works fine under DOSEMU. Add the following line to your
/etc/dosemu.conf

ports {range 0x378 0x37b} #For LPT1

--Jason

'Parallax or Picstart? (also, uASM note)'
1994\08\31@230011 by eric

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> Additionally, the PicStart's serial connection is completely
> nonstandard/proprietary, with pretty low-level UART stuff. Would this still
> work with LINUX (even emulating DOS)? It definitely doesn't work with the
> MAC.

I've been looking at the PICStart communications with an HP 4952A protocol
analyzer.  They use receive data, transmit data, and one handshake line in
each direction.  The handshake lines are toggled after every command or data
byte.

I haven't completely worked out the details yet, but I think the Macintosh
could actually talk to it.  A special cable might be needed.

Cheers,
Eric


'Parallax or Picstart? (also, uASM note)'
1994\09\01@010100 by crocontroller discussion list
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>Hi PICers,
>
>David said,
>
>>
>> 1. Parallax uses parallel PC port, PICSTART uses serial.  You could
>> probably use PICSTART from Linux with the DOS emulator, but you can't
>> do that with the parallax since the DOS emulator doesn't support the
>> parallel port.
>
>I know this list is not for Linux discussions, but I must disagree here.
>The parallel port works fine under DOSEMU. Add the following line to your
>/etc/dosemu.conf


Additionally, the PicStart's serial connection is completely
nonstandard/proprietary, with pretty low-level UART stuff. Would this still
work with LINUX (even emulating DOS)? It definitely doesn't work with the
MAC.

Again, I'll take this time to second Don Lekei's recommendation of the
Beradine MicroBurner 512 (see FAQ for more info). It is a little pricey
(maybe $350), but well worth it. I have both this and a PICSTART (which I
used before I found the microburner), and I don't even take the PICSTART
out of the box anymore. It uses a standard RS-232 serial connection, and
you can get new modules to let it program new/different chipsets (although
they are also admittedly a bit pricey at somewhat over $100 each). It also
uses a serial programming routine (WRT THE PIC), so I always have 5 wire
connectors on my oceanographic instrumnts, and I can update the frmware
with a simple 5-wire cable from the Microburner to the instrument's circuit
board (ie: in situ programming, whic I believe the Parallax TruFlight will
also do, but the PICSTART will not). Also, since you can download programs
from the host computer, to the microburner (which can run off the included
AC adapter or a 12V battery) you can program the new firmware into the
buner, and take it (no host computer) to the instrument and update the
firmware.

I have no cnoonction to the MicroBurner, except as a normal customer.

-jory

PS: Has anyone gotten a version the uASM (for the MAC, from MicroDialects)
that will work with the 16c84? Any work on any new MAC-based development
tools (I'd especially like a good c84 supporting simulator) I am really
trying to get away from SOFTPC! (and I don't have a UNIX or PC/LINUX box,
so those emerging avenues/alternatives don't help.  :)

Gratuitous Background Info:I thought I had bought a c84/c71 uASM version,
but hadn't gotten around to using it for a long time. When I recently tried
assembling some c84 code with it, I found it wouldn't recognize page1
memory access, etc. I didn't see anywhere I could select the PIC version,
so I guessed I had the wrong version. I called MicroDialects, but could not
get a hold of anyone who could answer my questions. Several weeks ago, I
finally returned the original disk, with a polite letter asking for the
correct version (I have not heard back yet). Anyone else have ay particular
experiences with them?

1994\09\01@020540 by crocontroller discussion list

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> Additionally, the PicStart's serial connection is completely
> nonstandard/proprietary, with pretty low-level UART stuff. Would this still
> work with LINUX (even emulating DOS)? It definitely doesn't work with the
> MAC.

I've been looking at the PICStart communications with an HP 4952A protocol
analyzer.  They use receive data, transmit data, and one handshake line in
each direction.  The handshake lines are toggled after every command or data
byte.

I haven't completely worked out the details yet, but I think the Macintosh
could actually talk to it.  A special cable might be needed.

Cheers,
Eric

1994\09\01@101122 by crocontroller discussion list

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> on more systems (like my IBM ThinkPad laptop which parallax has said they
> won't make it work on, even though it is an *IBM* PC (ISA bus even), and
> that is pretty stupid on my part. (ed note, yes I think the Parallax folks
> are wankers but that isn't why I don't reccomend their stuff)).
>
> --Chuck

Interesting! Neither does the Parallax programmer work on HP Omnibook.
Parallax told me essentially "We don't care". I'm a bit surprised that
Parallax writes their software so machine dependent that it can't be
run on these machines. Using the parallel port in a portable way isn't
really hard.

-- Martin

Martin Nilsson
Swedish Institute of Computer Science    E-mail: EraseMEmnspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTsics.se
Box 1263, S-164 28 Kista                 Fax: +46-8-751-7230
Sweden                                   Tel: +46-8-752-1574

'ANOTHER PROGRAMMER (Was Re: Parallax or Picstart?)'
1994\09\01@215433 by -Kellogg High School

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I have the PGM16 from Advanced Transdata Corporation.  Having never seen
a picstart or paralax programmer, it might be an OEM or clone of one of
them, but in my sample of 2 parallel ports to connect it to (clone
DX-2/66 and Zeos sub-notebook) it runs great.

I regularly travel with the Zeos & programmer.  Very convenient.  Their
real time ICE also runs well on the Contenda - I can't imagine tucking my
desktop system in the back seat of the plane to take my development
system on the road.  AS it is, an old briefcase serves as a complete real
time ICE / programmer capable system.

If anyone knows if this PGM16 critter is a clone of one of the other
programmers please let me know.

/s/ Bill

'DIY 16C84 programmer (was Re: Parallax or Picstart'
1994\09\06@061232 by crocontroller discussion list

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Hi,

I tried to mail this last week but it doesn't seem to have made it
onto the list.

Derrick Early mentioned he was hoping to build a 16C84 programmer.
You can ftp the info about this programmer from:

ftp://ftp.ee.ualberta.ca:/pub/cookbook/comp/ibm/pic84pgm.zip

Although many people have let me know that they have got the
programmer to work it is worth giving a few words of caution if you
are thinking of building it:

* I developed this project using a 20MHz 386DX machine and have
 subsequently found the C version to be unreliable when used with my
 33MHz 486DX.  Obviously a timing problem and I will try to fix this
 when I get some spare time.  The Qbasic version still worked though,
 and the C version worked with turbo mode switched off.

* Please note that the executable packaged with the programmer info
 was built for hardware using a 7406.  If you use a 7407 you must
 uncomment "#define U7407" and recompile.  The Qbasic source is also
 intended for hardware using a 7406.  To use the Qbasic program with
 7407 based hardware then include these definitions:

 CONST DataInv = 0
 CONST VppOn = 8, VppOff = 0, VddOn = 4, VddOff = 0
 CONST ClkHi = 2, ClkLo = 0, OutHi = 1, OutLo = 0

 (Due to a typo, the program erroneously suggests that you
 should use ClkHi = 4.  Sorry about that.)

* If you don't use LS buffers you should substitute a 7805 for the
 78L05.

I recently designed a PCB for the programmer which should make life
easier for intending constructors (it was while testing my PCB that I
found the timing problem).  The details will be packaged with the next
release of the software (i.e the one that corrects the timing bug).  I
can't promise when that will be ready though.

It doesn't seem to be as widely known as it should be that there is
information on another 16C84 programmer available on the net.  This
one was designed by Henk Schaer and is (at least was when I last
looked) available as

ftp://sunshine.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de:/pub/private/danny/picprog.zip

I haven't tried it myself, but it comes with menu driven software which
you may find preferable to the command line approach I used.

Hope this information will be useful to some of you - sorry for the
junk if not.

Cheers,

David

P.S. The programmers mentioned above were both released as copyrighted
freeware.  Nobody makes money from them.

1994\09\06@082401 by crocontroller discussion list

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>
> Hi,
>
> I tried to mail this last week but it doesn't seem to have made it
> onto the list.
>
> Derrick Early mentioned he was hoping to build a 16C84 programmer.
> You can ftp the info about this programmer from:
>
> ftp://ftp.ee.ualberta.ca:/pub/cookbook/comp/ibm/pic84pgm.zip
>

David,

I received your message last week just fine.  I looked at the picprog.zip
files, and it also looks like a good setup for a programmer.  My only
problem with it is that it doesn't appear to include the source for the
software.  I guess that someone could just send email to the author, and
you may be able to get a copy.

Thank you again for the information.

Yours,

Derrick Early

1994\09\06@174409 by crocontroller discussion list

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On Sep 6, 11:13, David Tait wrote:
[stuff deleted]
>
> * I developed this project using a 20MHz 386DX machine and have
>   subsequently found the C version to be unreliable when used with my
>   33MHz 486DX.  Obviously a timing problem and I will try to fix this
>   when I get some spare time.  The Qbasic version still worked though,
>   and the C version worked with turbo mode switched off.

I've had this kind of problem before with other cctry connected to PC
parallel ports. One way to fix it is to edit the CMOS configuration of
the PC and slow down the 8-bit I/O access by adding a few wait states.
Maybe this can work in this case too.

-- Charles

1994\09\07@215702 by crocontroller discussion list

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On Wed, 7 Sep 1994, Charles Manning wrote:

> On Sep 6, 11:13, David Tait wrote:
> [stuff deleted]
> >
> > * I developed this project using a 20MHz 386DX machine and have
> >   subsequently found the C version to be unreliable when used with my
> >   33MHz 486DX.  Obviously a timing problem and I will try to fix this
> >   when I get some spare time.  The Qbasic version still worked though,
> >   and the C version worked with turbo mode switched off.
>
> I've had this kind of problem before with other cctry connected to PC
> parallel ports. One way to fix it is to edit the CMOS configuration of
> the PC and slow down the 8-bit I/O access by adding a few wait states.
> Maybe this can work in this case too.

In many cases the chips of the parallel card are too slow to alllow the
high speed switching of a fast card.  For instance, you might have a bt
set low, you then pulse the bit high, then a 486 clock cycle or two later
return it to low.  All fine in theory, but the card hasn't had time to
switch to the high state before it was instructed to return low.

Yeah, putting in wait delays will work.  Another one you could try is
feed the output of one or two of the bits back into parallel port. That
way, you could read when the card has made the switch.


Oh, by the way, I'm new to the PIC group.  Can anyone tell me something
about the PIC?  What it can do, features, nice stuff, etc?  Thanks.


Catcha,

Regards,

  Michael Kunstelj.


'Availability of 16C74, 16C64, upgrade for picstart'
1994\10\10@063601 by Alex
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picon face
In article: <9409221636.aa21291spamspam_OUTpost.demon.co.uk> @spam@DVORAKVKILLspamspamcsearn.bitnet writes:
>
> Please,
>         our distributor ELBATEX for Czech Republic has nothing from 16C64
> or 16C74 in Wiena store. Are this chips available in sample quantities?

Both the 16C64 and 16C74 are becoming more freely available in sample
qtys now. Elbatex will have been allocated some, but I am not aware of their
priority
list for sample distribution

>         I have Picstart Version 16C1. Is there a SW upgrade for the new
> chips 16C74, 16C73 etc.

I'm not sure if this may be a typing error on your part - if what you
have is a Picstart-16B1, there is no upgrade available to support the
16C74/73, you will need to purchase the Picstart-16C, which is just
becoming available. Obviously if what you have is a Picstart-16C the
software supplied with it should inherently support the 16C74/73

Alex R. Baker - Field Apps Engineer Ph: +44 628 851077  Car: +44 831 494921
Arizona Microchip Technology        Fx: +44 628 850259  Email:
KILLspamalexKILLspamspammicrochp.demon.co.uk
ANY VIEWS EXPRESSED HERE ARE MINE AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REPRESENT THOSE OF MY
EMPLOYER


'Blew up my PICSTART 16B last night.'
1995\04\03@093807 by Paul Greenwood
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> Hmmm, you mean with the pins sticking up in the air? :)  I have done it
> hundreds of times w/o any problems

VERY funny!!!

> Go down to altex or MC Howards(both just south of IBM) and get a new
> 4066BE desolder the old one and replace it.  I have had one go bad on me
> too(if that is in fact what yours is).  Check the crystal and make sure
> it is osc'ing.  Check the 7805 and make sure it is regulating to 5V and
> not something like 20.

So, what is a 4066?  I don't remember even seeing it on the board.  If it was
on the board, it wasn't hot.  Do you remember the scenerio with yours?  Did
the 4066 get hot on you?

> Zerox the invoice.  Change the data to 9 months ago by cutting out
> numbers with an exacto knife.  Paste them on the xroxed invoice.  Xerox
> again.  Cool! now its not a year old :)

:)  Yeah, yeah!

--

           -- Paul Greenwood --  (RemoveMEpabloTakeThisOuTspamaustin.ibm.com)

But scientists, who ought to know
Assure us that it must be so.
Oh, let us never, never doubt
What nobody is sure about.
               -- Hilaire Belloc

'(Fwd) FS: PICSTART development system for Microchi'
1995\04\03@170644 by Henry Carl Ott

picon face
I remember somebody was looking for a picstart.
Saw this in sci.electronics and thought I'd repost it.

In sci.electronics Dave Fors said:
 FOR SALE:  Microchip's PICSTART-16B1 development system.

Microchip's PICSTART-16B1 development system provides design engineers a
fast, easy and very
low-cost way to begin evaluation and code developmenbt of PIC
microcontroller products.  The
PICSTART-16B1 comes complete with:
   assembler and simulator software
   programmer board
   PIC16CXX product samples
   supports the full range of PIC16C54/C55/C56/C57, PIC16C71 and PIC16C8
products
   90-250VAC - 50/60 Hz power supply
   RS-232 cable
   Assembler Manual
   Simulator Manual.

System documentation includes Microchip's new Embedded Control Application
Handbook and the
Microchip Product Data Book.  The PICSTART-16B1 programmer board accepts
18- and 28-lead
PIC16CXX devices.  System software includes MPALC Assembler, MPSIM
Simulator and
programmer software to read and program all PIC16CXX products.  MPALC is a
PC hosted
symbolic cross assembler used to convert source code into object code.
MPSIM is a very efficient
discrete event software simulator designed to imitate the operation of all
PIC16CXX
microcontrollers.

Digi-Key price $195.  Your price $125 shipping within USA included.
(PICSTART never taken out
of box or used).  I'm selling it because I got into computer servicing
instead of hardware design.

Dave Fors
spamBeGoneforsspamBeGonespamrio.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------
later .......

carl

Henry Carl Ott       N2RVQ
TakeThisOuTcarlEraseMEspamspam_OUTpipeline.com
------------------------------------------------
No wife, no horse, no spell checker.
------------------------------------------------


'16C84 data eeprom and picstart16 help needed'
1995\11\06@080316 by Sten Dahlgren
flavicon
face
Please, some expert advice needed.

A friend of mine asked me to help him to program 2 16c84 (I'm only using 5x
types my self yet). The problem is that he need some data in the data eeprom
part that i don't understand how to program from my picstart16b.
I have seen in an application note that it is possible at least but could
it be done from my picstart16b?

While trying to program one of these i filled the buffer with zero's and
programmed it without complaints (except id i think) but when programming
it with real data there was errors already at pos 0x13. Could these little
bastards fail like this?

regards

/Sten

---
Sten Dahlgren  CelsiusTech Systems   ! "I'd rather have 39 Hp under my arm
S-175 88 Jaerfaella      Sweden      ! than one under my backside"
RemoveMEsedaspamTakeThisOuTcelsiustech.se +46-8 58084430   ! join your nearest karting club now !!

1995\11\06@083302 by Jan Henrik Kraagtorp

flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

Hello. I'm having just the same problem as you. I have the
picstart16b1 and I need software which is compatible with the
hardware from picstart16b1 and this software must be able to write to
the eeprom memory on the pic16c84 chip. If you get the solution to
this problem, please mail me. Or if you get the software that works
with the picstart16b1... or any info at all... please mail me.

PS! I got the program Promate 3000 which has support for the eeprom
programming, but I don't know for sure if it's compatible with the
picstart16b1  hardware device. But another 'but' is that this program
has an option called 'Download Firmware'..... So there is a
possibility that this could make the program compatible with the
hardware. I have sent email to Microchip about this, but I haven't
recived any answer from them........

Hope we could share some information on this.......


JHK

email:EraseMEjanhkspamoleg.hiof.no & RemoveMEjhkEraseMEspamEraseMEstrutle.hiof.no & RemoveMEjanhkspam_OUTspamKILLspamfrodo.hiof.no
talk: same as email

" 640 kB should be enough for everyone " - Bill Gates

1995\11\06@084754 by James Lewis

picon face
I was wondering where to get a PIC-START and aproximate prices (foriegn
prices are fine since I'm just considering right now what programmer to
get).

Thanks,
  James



Attachment converted: wonderlandtwo:WINMAIL.DAT (????/----) (000045E6)

1995\11\06@084958 by Conny Andersson

flavicon
face
At 14.32 1995-11-06 +0100, Jan Henrik Kraagtorp wrote:

>Hello. I'm having just the same problem as you. I have the
>picstart16b1 and I need software which is compatible with the
>hardware from picstart16b1 and this software must be able to write to
>the eeprom memory on the pic16c84 chip. If you get the solution to

I also has the picstart16b1 and I asked Memec Scandinavia (the distributor
in Sweden) about this six months ago. The only answer was that it was not
possible ... One solution however is to create a program that takes input
via RS232 and writes all eeprom locations in the 84. Of course you need another
"programmer" to accomplish this.


-- Conny

1995\11\06@150624 by Rolan

flavicon
face
Erik Herman's RS-232 Programmer combined with Anniti Lucas's
PIP-02 program will permit writing to the EEPROM area. I often
use it to quickly change the sequence of a light chaser- and also
for many other purposes.

Sorry, I forgot Anitti's link, but it is listed on my web page
below.

For quicker access to the PIC stuff, got to:

http://hertz.njit.edu/~rxy5310/hhack.html

-()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()-
Rolan Yang            http://hertz.njit.edu/~rxy5310   Electrical Engineer
RemoveMErxy5310TakeThisOuTspamspamhertz.njit.edu                             EraseMEkyuriusspamspamspamBeGonetsb.weschke.com
VR,ROBOTICS,FENCING,HACKING,INDUSTRIAL MUSIC,ART,EXPLOSIVES,INLINE SKATING
                   THESE ARE A FEW OF MY FAVORITE THINGS.
-()---()---()---()---()---()-----()-()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()-
4 out of 10 people are annoyed by ^ this.

'FYI - Picstart Design Contest Application Brief No'
1995\11\07@152034 by Harrison Cooper

flavicon
face
I have a copy, since I was actually published !!

Anyway, document is noted as December 1993 / DS030229B

Please note that these are *very* brief application notes created by
the folks in the real world - no code listings, etc.

It would be nice to know who else is on the list that is published,
as there are some interesting ideas shown.

-Harrison Cooper
RemoveMEhcooperKILLspamspames.com

'Free? upgrade kit was Re: picstart 16B and 16C62X'
1995\11\13@224559 by John Magrane

picon face
The upgrade kit is being sent free to recent purchasers of the PICSTART 16B who
registered. Recent means since around May. If your PICSTART is substantially
older than that, you have to purchase the upgrade kit (unless you can convince
your distributor that your such a good customer you deserve one for free. : )

John Magrane
FAE Bell Industries
(408) 734-8570
72712.2347STOPspamspamspam_OUTcompuserve.com


'Buying a PICSTART'
1995\12\26@170848 by Martin McCormick
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face
       After reading messages about the PICSTART on this list over the last
year or so, I think I will buy a PICSTART 16B-1.  I am making the decision
partly on the fact that a lot of people seem to be using this programmer and
the fact that you get a lot of documentation, software, and a sample PIC
to experiment with as well as a good programmer.

       Is the programmer board already assembled or do you have to do that?

       I know that the 16B-1 does not program all the PICS that the 16C
does and visa versa, but what am I truly missing by getting the 16B-1 instead
of the 16C?

       Messages dated back about 8 or 9 months ago say that the software
used with the PICSTART runs fine on an old PC with monochrome display adapter.
That is precisely what I plan to install this system on.  Is today's software
still text and DOS-friendly?

       Are there any 40-pin adapters for the 16B-1, yet?

       I want to thank many people on this list for sharing their ideas
and knowledge.  I will do the same as I actually began to program PIC's.

       Finally, is Digi-Key still a good place to order PIC's?  Where is a
good place to order the PICSTART?

       Have a prosperous New Year.

Martin McCormick 405 744-7572   Stillwater, OK
OSU Center for Computing and Information services Data Communications Group

1995\12\26@182922 by Andrew Warren

flavicon
face
Martin McCormick <spamBeGonemartinSTOPspamspamEraseMEDC.CIS.OKSTATE.EDU> wrote:

> After reading messages about the PICSTART on this list over the
> last year or so, I think I will buy a PICSTART 16B-1.
> ....
>
> Is the programmer board already assembled or do you have to do
> that?

   The board is fully assembled.

> I know that the 16B-1 does not program all the PICS that the 16C
> does and visa versa, but what am I truly missing by getting the
> 16B-1 instead of the 16C?

   The PICSTART-16B1 programs only the 16C5x series, the 16C61 &
   16C71, and the 16C84.  The PICSTART-16C programs all 16Cxx parts
   except the 16C5x series.

> Messages dated back about 8 or 9 months ago say that the software
> used with the PICSTART runs fine on an old PC with monochrome
> display adapter. That is precisely what I plan to install this
> system on.  Is today's software still text and DOS-friendly?

   The last version I saw worked fine on an old 286.

> Are there any 40-pin adapters for the 16B-1, yet?

   No, and there never will be, because the 16B1 doesn't rogram any
   40-pin parts.

> Finally, is Digi-Key still a good place to order PIC's?

   It's as good as it ever was, I suppose, but if you're ordering
   more than a tube at a time, you'd probably be better served by
   your local Microchip distributor.

> Where is a good place to order the PICSTART?

   Try your local Microchip distributor.  In Oklahoma, that'd be:

       Pioneer Standard
       918 665-7840
       918 665-1891 (Fax)

   -Andy

Andrew Warren - KILLspamfastfwdspamBeGonespamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geopages.com/SiliconValley/2499

1995\12\26@191813 by Brian Read

flavicon
face
Andy W. said:
   The PICSTART-16B1 programs only the 16C5x series, the 16C61 &
   16C71, and the 16C84.  The PICSTART-16C programs all 16Cxx parts
   except the 16C5x series.

......................................................................
I don't think that the PICSTART-16C does any of the '5X
parts or anything in the 'XX family except the '74 & '64
series parts with MCLR_/VPP on pin one. I have both a
16B1 & a 16C for just that reason.

So if you want to do the 40 pin (or 28 pin versions) of
the '74 or '64 families, you need a PICSTART-16C. For
the rest it's the PICSTART-16B1.

Brian

1995\12\26@212806 by Andrew Warren

flavicon
face
Brian Read <EraseMEbreadspamEraseMEMAXWELL.EE.WASHINGTON.EDU> wrote:

> Andy W. said:
>     The PICSTART-16B1 programs only the 16C5x series, the 16C61 &
>     16C71, and the 16C84.  The PICSTART-16C programs all 16Cxx parts
>     except the 16C5x series.
>
> ....................................................................
>
> I don't think that the PICSTART-16C does any of the '5X parts or
> anything in the 'XX family except the '74 & '64 series parts with
> MCLR_/VPP on pin one. I have both a 16B1 & a 16C for just that
> reason.
>
> So if you want to do the 40 pin (or 28 pin versions) of
> the '74 or '64 families, you need a PICSTART-16C. For
> the rest it's the PICSTART-16B1.

Brian:

Thanks for posting that clarification.

The 16B1 will program the 16C52, 16C54, 16C55, 16C56, 16C57, 16C58,
16C61, 16C70, 16C71, and 16C84 (and "A" versions of each of those).
As far as I know, it'll also program the 16C62x parts.

The 16C will program the 16C62, 16C63, 16C64, 16C65, 16C73, and 16C74 (and
"A" versions of each).

-Andy

Andrew Warren - @spam@fastfwd@spam@spamspam_OUTix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geopages.com/SiliconValley/2499

1995\12\27@032653 by Steve Childress

flavicon
face
------ =_NextPart_000_01BAD3F1.E50CA460
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

My PICSTART 16B1 with 1.7 firmware won't program the 16C622 I just bought.
Waiting to hear what I need to do...

----------
From:   Andrew Warren[SMTP:spamBeGonefastfwdspamKILLspamPOPD.IX.NETCOM.COM]
Sent:   Tuesday, December 26, 1995 6:26 PM
To:     Multiple recipients of list PICLIST
Subject:        Re: Buying a PICSTART

Brian Read <.....breadspam_OUTspamMAXWELL.EE.WASHINGTON.EDU> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Brian:

Thanks for posting that clarification.

The 16B1 will program the 16C52, 16C54, 16C55, 16C56, 16C57, 16C58,
16C61, 16C70, 16C71, and 16C84 (and "A" versions of each of those).
As far as I know, it'll also program the 16C62x parts.

The 16C will program the 16C62, 16C63, 16C64, 16C65, 16C73, and 16C74 (and
"A" versions of each).

-Andy

Andrew Warren - TakeThisOuTfastfwd.....spamTakeThisOuTix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geopages.com/SiliconValley/2499



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'Use PICSTART with MPASMX'
1995\12\31@061250 by Maurizio Conti

flavicon
face
Hi,

some questions for a last day of year...

1)
I want to ask like I could program the C84 with the PICSTART using the
PARALLAX ASSEMBLER.
I am doing experiments with the PIC-C compiler of J. Favata and I have only
the PICSTART.
How to create (with MPASMX) an OBJ in format INHEX8 to load with the PICSTART ?

2)
Where could I find the manual for the PARALLAX ASSEMBLER ?
Please send me a complete U.R.L. not a simply indication like "try on
http://www.pallaxinc.com...." thank.



Excuse me all for my "maccheronich" English !!
Thank you to all and good new year.


Maurizio Conti                           / __  __  __       / ___ ____
TakeThisOuTmcontiKILLspamspamspamiper.net                         / /__)/_  /__) /\  / /_    /
http://www.iper.net                    / /   /__ / \  /  \/ /___  /
Viale Viareggio 19, 47037 Rimini Italy               /
------------------------------------------------------------------


'16C52 and PICStart16B'
1996\04\16@084729 by Ken Hewitt
flavicon
picon face
Can anyone tell me what versions of mpstart and PICStart firmware
support the programming of the 16C52. The latest version of mpstart on
the Microchip www page is V5.0 and this does not seem to support the 52.


+-----------------------------+----------------------------------+
|   ken hewitt                |   Email .....kenspamRemoveMEwelwyn.demon.co.uk   |
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------+

1996\04\16@131507 by Darrel Johansen

picon face
    Ken,

    PICSTART 16b does not support the 16C52, although if you get
    application note AN651 you can use the 16C54 to emulate the '52. You
    could use the PICSTART 16b to program the '52 (as per AN651), but the
    parts will show errors on blank check.

    The new PICSTART Plus (available in May/Jun) will directly support the
    16C52.

    RemoveMEdarrel.johansenspamspamBeGonemicrochip.com



______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: 16C52 and PICStart16B
Author:  Ken Hewitt <spamBeGoneken@spam@spamspam_OUTWELWYN.DEMON.CO.UK> at Internet_Exchange
Date:    4/16/96 1:42 PM


Can anyone tell me what versions of mpstart and PICStart firmware
support the programming of the 16C52. The latest version of mpstart on
the Microchip www page is V5.0 and this does not seem to support the 52.


+-----------------------------+----------------------------------+
|   ken hewitt                |   Email TakeThisOuTkenspamspamwelwyn.demon.co.uk   |
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------+


'New PICSTART 16B-1 FOR SALE, 1/2 PRICE PAID'
1996\05\10@103540 by Mark Peterson
flavicon
face
I fear that this message went out without a subject heading, so here it is.
I have all items in 16B1 developer's kit, new, unused with books, chips (kit
comes with windowed cerdip 16C71 and 16C54). Look at a catalog (or call)
Digi-key for the contents of the kit. If you or someone you know wants to
get started in PIC programming, or if you don't have the 16B1's capability
to program the newer devices (16c61, 16c71, 16c84 and for $30 more from
Digi-key the 16c62x devices), drop me a line. <mapEraseMEspamtidepool.com>. $100 U.S.

'PIC14000 and Picstart Plus'
1996\05\22@224517 by Ben Kwok-Yiu Li

picon face
Will the PIC14K only be supported by the picmaster or also by the
picstart plus?  What exactly is the picstart plus?  compared to 16a and b?

\Thks for the info.   RemoveMEbenliEraseMEspamspam_OUTuclink2.berkeley.edu

'Initial MPLAB + PICStart Plus Comments'
1996\05\31@094318 by myke predko

flavicon
face
Hi Folks,

I spent a couple of hours last night with the PICStart Plus with MPLAB and
here are a few comments:

1.  I got two General Protection Faults (GPFs) while running the program.
Actually, they were both so bad the PC reset.  I hadn't seem them with just
running MPLAB.  Once question on this, after the reboot, I found that the
source code was at the last level (not the last *saved* level).  Does the
compile/build steps save the source?

2.  The configuration fuses and Id locations weren't picked up from the
program (__CONFIG and __IDLOCS, respectively).  The documentation indicates
that they should be loaded from the hex file.  Not a big problem, just the
first time I tried programming a device, I didn't notice that it was set for
an "RC" oscillator and the watchdog timer was on.  Not a big problem, just
an annoyance.

I ran PPLUS101.EXE from the Windows "Run" facility to install it.

Other than these two problems, Programming runs seamlessly in the window.
It should just be noted that the programmer has to be enabled and once this
is done, no other functions of MPLAB can be used.  Not a problem, just
something to be aware of.

Great Tools!

Myke
Myke

"We're Starfleet officers, weird is part of the job."

Capt. Catherine Janeway


'MPLab & Picstart - where ?'
1996\06\04@151116 by Harrison Cooper
flavicon
face
Andrew Warren had indicated that Picstart is supported by MPLab.
OK, I still can't find the interface.  I am running ver 3.01.00.
Is it in a newer version (yet to be released ?)  Like I said, I
may be missing something.

1996\06\04@161402 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Harrison Cooper <@spam@PICLISTRemoveMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> Andrew Warren had indicated that Picstart is supported by MPLab.

   Wait a minute... I said the Picstart PLUS was supported, not the
   old Picstart 16s.

> OK, I still can't find the interface.  I am running ver 3.01.00. Is
> it in a newer version (yet to be released ?)  Like I said, I may be
> missing something.

   You are.

   In addition to the MPLAB software which you already have, you
   need to download a file called (I think) PSPLUS.ZIP.  This file
   contains the Picstart Plus "plug-in' for MPLAB.

   -Andy

Andrew Warren - EraseMEfastfwdspam@spam@ix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\06\05@040516 by mike

flavicon
picon face
In message  <@spam@199606042013.NAA25026spam_OUTspam.....dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> spamBeGonefastfwdEraseMEspamix.netcom.com
writes:
> Harrison Cooper <PICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:
>
> > Andrew Warren had indicated that Picstart is supported by MPLab.
>
>     Wait a minute... I said the Picstart PLUS was supported, not the
>     old Picstart 16s.
>
Is there a good reason why the "old" picstart 16s are not supported?
There is a lot of them out there.

What about the 3rd party programmers, are (m)any of them supported?


Mike Watson


'programming 16C84 with PicStart 16C ?'
1996\09\10@073203 by Jon K. Nicoll
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face
Hello there
       I have a Picstart 16C programmer board, and an application for
which I would like to use a 16C84 PIC. It seems from the documentation
that I have that the programmer will not normally do this.

I'm trying to get this little project up & running with little (/no!)
cost. From looking at the data sheets, it seems like the serial programming
modes of the 16C7xx and the 16C84, at least, are pretty similar.

My query: does anyone have information as to whether I could hack
the Picstart programmer, and/or write my own software to drive it,
in order to program the 16C84? I'm very comfortable with C etc., and capable
of doing the work, but don't want to try to work out the serial protocol
of the programmer if I find out that it's not possible for some reason.
If making some sort of HW adapter board for the PIC is needed, that's
no problem either.

       thanks for any info
       regards
       jon Nicoll

'16F84 and picstart16B1'
1996\09\11@081355 by Papageorgiou Spiros

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face
Hi,

Is it possible to program the new 16f84 with my picstart16b1?
Although it's the same chip (almost) it has flash instead of
EEPROM.

Thanx in advance

Spiros Papageorgiou
Email:
RemoveMEmc89114@spam@spamspamBeGonecentral.ntua.gr

'programming 16C84 with PicStart 16C ?'
1996\09\11@091905 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
>
>My query: does anyone have information as to whether I could hack
>the Picstart programmer, and/or write my own software to drive it,
>in order to program the 16C84? I'm very comfortable with C etc., and capable
>of doing the work, but don't want to try to work out the serial protocol
>of the programmer if I find out that it's not possible for some reason.
>If making some sort of HW adapter board for the PIC is needed, that's
>no problem either.
>
>        thanks for any info
>        regards
>        jon Nicoll
>
Jon,

You under-estimate how different the 16C84 is programming wise to the other
16Cxx parts. It is extremely doubtful the PS 16C can be used to program a 16C84
regardless of what new driver you write for it. This is because the timing and
required command set are generated by the onboard firmware, not the software
driver. It is doubtful the 16C84 algorithm is present in the PS 16C.

There are however, many low cost solutions for programming the 16C84 and no
doubt
you will receive further pointers on this.

I am currently working on a project to upgrade the PS 16B to do all the devices
not currently covered by it. This includes the 40-pin and 28-pin 16Cxx
parts, the
PIC14000 and the PIC12Cxxx parts, but, unfortunately for you, this is no help.

Regards

Jim

'16F84 and picstart16B1'
1996\09\11@092746 by rdmiller

picon face
On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Papageorgiou Spiros wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is it possible to program the new 16f84 with my picstart16b1?
> Although it's the same chip (almost) it has flash instead of
> EEPROM.

"Flash" is a loose term nowadays.  When Microchip says "flash",
they mean EEPROM.  Your PicStart-16B1 will work just fine.

1996\09\11@092949 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 03:12 PM 9/11/96 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Is it possible to program the new 16f84 with my picstart16b1?
>Although it's the same chip (almost) it has flash instead of
>EEPROM.
>
>Thanx in advance
>
>Spiros Papageorgiou
>Email:
>.....mc89114@spam@spamEraseMEcentral.ntua.gr
>
Spiros,

Flash my arse! (Pardon my french) The 16F84 is an EEPROM part just like the
16C84. Programming wise it is nearly the same. You can program it as a 16C84
but the code protection bits are different so you may/will get a verify error
on the fuses. The code protection may or may not be useable.

If noone else has, I will confirm this in the morning Australian time.

Jim

'programming 16C84 with PicStart 16C ?'
1996\09\11@101605 by Jon K. Nicoll

flavicon
face
Hi Jim
       thanks for replying to my query. I am/was actually in the middle
of building a board to program the 16C84 when a friend came up with the
16C programmer. From what you and others say, it seems I am right to keep
on building...

Does your upgrading of the 16B programmer include upgrading the on-board
firmware? Do you happen to know if Microchip allow reading of the firmware on
the
16B/C programmer boards.

                       (?)


       Best regards
       jon N

'16F84 and picstart16B1'
1996\09\11@120414 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Papageorgiou Spiros <.....PICLISTRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> Is it possible to program the new 16f84 with my picstart16b1?
> Although it's the same chip (almost) it has flash instead of
> EEPROM.

Papageorgiou:

The 16F84 does NOT use flash... It's EEPROM, just like all the other
'8xs.  Microchip's laughable explanation for the "F" is [I'm
paraphrasing, but as accurately as I can], "The word 'flash' has
become a generic term for electrically-erasable memory, so we're
using it to describe our EEPROM parts."

None of MY friends use the word "flash" that way... Guess we're just
old-fashioned, huh?

Oh, well... The answer to your question is:  If your programmer will
program 16C84s, it'll also program 16F84s.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - .....fastfwdSTOPspamspam@spam@ix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\09\11@192054 by Brian Boles

flavicon
face
    As far as we know, the Atmel "Flash" parts use the same basic
    technology as we do.  If it looks like ...., and smells like ...., it
    must be ....

    Rgds, Brian.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: 16F84 and picstart16B1
Author:  Andrew Warren <fastfwdEraseMEspam@spam@IX.NETCOM.COM> at Internet_Exchange
Date:    9/11/96 9:06 AM


Papageorgiou Spiros <RemoveMEPICLISTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> Is it possible to program the new 16f84 with my picstart16b1?
> Although it's the same chip (almost) it has flash instead of
> EEPROM.

Papageorgiou:

The 16F84 does NOT use flash... It's EEPROM, just like all the other
'8xs.  Microchip's laughable explanation for the "F" is [I'm
paraphrasing, but as accurately as I can], "The word 'flash' has
become a generic term for electrically-erasable memory, so we're using
it to describe our EEPROM parts."

None of MY friends use the word "flash" that way... Guess we're just
old-fashioned, huh?

Oh, well... The answer to your question is:  If your programmer will
program 16C84s, it'll also program 16F84s.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - spamBeGonefastfwdKILLspamspam@spam@ix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\09\11@234141 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 03:12 PM 9/11/96 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Is it possible to program the new 16f84 with my picstart16b1?
>Although it's the same chip (almost) it has flash instead of
>EEPROM.
>
>Thanx in advance
>
>Spiros Papageorgiou
>Email:
>mc89114spam_OUTspam@spam@central.ntua.gr
>
Spiros,

As I promised, here is the confirmation on programming the 16F84 part
with a PS 16B. This contains information not previously given so please
read.

For programming a 16F84 as a 16C84 there are two important differences to allow
for. Both these are in the config word.

First, the PWRTE is reversed in the 16F84 as compared to the 16C84. This
reversal is happening on all newer devices. I.E it is reversed on the
16CXX "A" parts also.

So if you want to program the 16F84 as a 16C84, select the opposite condition
you want for the PWRTE in your source or in the PS 16B software.

The 2nd difference is with the code protection and unused bits. Here ther might
be some problems when verifying the part. I think you will always get verify
errors unless you leave the code protection "off."

You will have to try it as I don't know if the PS 16B software "masks" the
unused
bits or not. Suck it and see. If you always get verify errors in the fuses or
config word you should ignore them.


Regards,

Jim Robertson

http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~newfound

'programming 16C84 with PicStart 16C ?'
1996\09\11@234145 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 03:16 PM 9/11/96 BST, you wrote:
>Hi Jim
>        thanks for replying to my query. I am/was actually in the middle
>of building a board to program the 16C84 when a friend came up with the
>16C programmer. From what you and others say, it seems I am right to keep
>on building...
>
>Does your upgrading of the 16B programmer include upgrading the on-board
>firmware? Do you happen to know if Microchip allow reading of the firmware on
> the
>16B/C programmer boards.
>
                      (?)
>
>        Best regards
>        jon N
>
Jon,

Yes, keep on building.

My upgrade for the PS 16B does involve new firmware call "phoenix." New firmware
is required to properly manage all the features of all the devices. This is
especially true with the PIC14000 and the PIC12Cxxx devices.

I have need actually tried to read the old firmware myself so I don't know if it
is code protected.

Hang on a second, I'll try it now......


Bummer! it is code protected so I guess the answer is no. For V1.7 at least.
Oh well, good luck with the 16C84 programmer anyway.

Regards,

Jim

'Re[2]: 16F84 and picstart16B1'
1996\09\12@043955 by Kalle Pihlajasaari

flavicon
face
Dear Mr. Boles,

>      As far as we know, the Atmel "Flash" parts use the same basic
>      technology as we do.  If it looks like ...., and smells like ...., it
>      must be ....

It is not that we realy care what you call your products as long as
you stick to a rational naming and numbering system.

What especially irritates me and others too is changing your product
numbers.  This is an extra problem as your product families
no longer even follow your own delelopment tool conventions.

It may be too late but it would be real nice to make a family
structure that can be used in your (and other 3rd party)
development tools to specify what type of core you have in a chip
and then stick to it.

Regards
--
Kalle Pihlajasaari     spamBeGonekalle@spam@spamdata.co.za
Interface Products     Box 15775, Doornfontein, 2028, South Africa
+27 (11) 402-7750      Fax: +27 (11) 402-7751

'programming 16C84 with PicStart 16C ?'
1996\09\12@044408 by Jon K. Nicoll

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face
Hi Jim
       out of interest (mainly), do you know the H/W differences between
the 16B and the 16C PicStart programmers? Microchip do seem to have a
confusing range of programming devices. Since the PicStart 16C kit includes
an EPROM 16C<can't remember>, I was toying with the idea of working out the
cct, blowing a new PIC, and using that. Partly as an exercise, and partly
because the PicStart is a nicer bit of H/W than the cheap & cheerful
thing I'm knocking up at the moment...

       cheers
       jon N

'Conversion of Parallax object file to PICSTART 16B'
1996\09\12@092445 by arry P. Thomas WAOGWA

flavicon
face
I'm working with some people in Austria and need to send a program change to
them via e-mail.  The problem is I've been using parallax assemblers and
they have a PICSTART 16B1 unit.  Does any know of a utility to convert the
object files created by PASM.EXE from parallax to the format required by the
MicroChip PICSTART 16B1 programmer.

Thanks
Larry
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Larry P. Thomas wa0gwa                 voice : 1 913 888-0282
Krell Technologies                       fax : 1 913 782-9359
8960 Bond                              pager : 1 816 989-HELP
Overland Park, KS 66214-1764           e-mail : RemoveMElpthomasEraseMEspamKILLspamwinning-edge.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

'programming 16C84 with PicStart 16C ?'
1996\09\12@100048 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 09:43 AM 9/12/96 BST, you wrote:
>Hi Jim
>        out of interest (mainly), do you know the H/W differences between
>the 16B and the 16C PicStart programmers? Microchip do seem to have a
>confusing range of programming devices. Since the PicStart 16C kit includes
>an EPROM 16C<can't remember>, I was toying with the idea of working out the
>cct, blowing a new PIC, and using that. Partly as an exercise, and partly
>because the PicStart is a nicer bit of H/W than the cheap & cheerful
>thing I'm knocking up at the moment...
>
>        cheers
>        jon N
>
Jon,

The picstart 16s both use a 17C42 chip for the firmware so there goes your
idea of "rolling your own."

The main difference between the 16B and 16C is the ZIF socket size and wiring.
The 16C is a much simpler programmer as it doesn't require multipling or
widely different algorithms for the 16C84 and 16C5x parts.

-Jim

'Conversion of Parallax object file to PICSTART 16B'
1996\09\12@102152 by David Tait

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Larry Thomas wrote:

> The problem is I've been using parallax assemblers and
> they have a PICSTART 16B1 unit.  Does any know of a utility to convert the
> object files created by PASM.EXE from parallax to the format required by the
> MicroChip PICSTART 16B1 programmer.

It depends on the target PIC.  For most all you need to do is delete
the Parallax "device" record; for others you need to delete the config
record as well.  If you download the latest version of PASM (now
called SPASM) it has a switch (/S) to suppress the device record.  If
you don't want to bother grabbing SPASM just delete the line that
starts :02FFFE... .  If you still have trouble then you are probably
using the 16C5X PICs and you'll also have to delete the second to last
hex record (i.e. the one before :00000001FF).

Probably not useful for you but I have written some hex utilities to
manipulate PIC16C84 hex files in various ways - they are available as
pichex01.zip on the sites in my sig.

David
--
spamBeGonedavid.taitspam_OUTspamRemoveMEman.ac.uk
http://www.man.ac.uk/~mbhstdj/files
ftp://ftp.mcc.ac.uk/pub/micro-controllers/PIC/

'Using the Picstart Plus to program other micro's?'
1996\09\12@110312 by Werner Terreblanche

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face
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:          Self <FS7/WTERREB>
To:            PICLIST
Subject:       Using the Picstart Plus to program other micro's?
Date:          Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:07:40 GMT+2

I bought myself one of the new Picstart Plus programmers and is very
impressed with.   This is almost a universal programmer in the true
sense of the word.  Or is it?

What I specifically like about the programmer is that they put DG411
analog switches on almost all the pins, making it possible to cater
for almost any kind of pin configuration.  The control is done by a
PIC17C42 (I think) which is connected via the RS232 serial port to
your computer.

This brings me to an interesting thought...   It really looks as if
this hardware should make it possible to also program other devices
on this programmer if one just replace the existing controlling micro
with another specially programmed one.  I would particularly like it if I can
program
the Atmel 89C20xx and 89Cxx devices.

Has anyone else out there ever tried to do this?  Is the schematics
for the Microchip Picstart Plus available anyware?  It shouldn't be
too difficult to reverse engineer it, but I really don't want to do
that if someone else has already done this and I can just buy a
pre-programmed 17C42 to replace my existing one and wolla - My
picstart can now also program the Atmel devices!

It would be interesting to hear what the programmer experts like Jim
and Antti think of this....   <hint> <hint>   :)

Rgds

Werner

--
Werner Terreblanche   Tel +27 21 7102251   Fax +27 21 721278
.....wterrebspamRemoveMEplessey.co.za (work) OR wernerspam@spam@aztec.co.za  (home)

1996\09\12@120546 by antti

flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

Hi Werner and all others

well I can say what I think (or did at least): it would be possible
(and I had plans to do so) to replace the firmware chips on bla-bla
programmers with one single warranty:

"This is the final firmware upgrade you ever need for this hardware"

it means that the firmware would be to have full access over all the
hardware futures existing - swithces, drivers so on, and the upper level
software (on the host) would know how to handle the hardware (via the
the firmware), being able to use all available resources of the programmer
in question.

Another tool would take a programmer pin-capabilities description
file to help to make a pin-remap adapter for all those devices
the programmer does not support by default.

If that above would be made, every programmer equipped with the
"final firmware(tm)" Would be able (at least teoretically) to program
all devices that require equal number or less programmable pins and voltages
as the programmer hardware actually has.

YES Picstart would program Atmel, and lotsa other devices it was not designed
to program.

I have been working on this concept and will continue, but as I dont
know who I could get any profit of that work this is pretty much in
background.

well whats done is a base level specification for PINAPI - PIN (driver)
Application Programming Interface.

There are few programs written on top of that specification and they
are pretty much succesful. At least several companies are distributing
commercial programmers with my free software, (not paying and even without
sending me a notice) I still dont mind. And still will keep that programming
software (and hopefully coming soon new release) free.
(I have made no profit whatsorwhatever)

I had plans to make a new level spefication for programmers with firmware
chips, but its really not so easy. If I should do that, ie replacement
firmware chips for various programmers, then only if I will very sure
that the upgrade will be last firmware upgrade needed. Until that I am
pretty much amused to see what others are doing and thinking.

SORRY for this long mail to the list, but I was thinking
"What Werner is doing?" just befor I did see

"I wander what Antti thinks?" in Werners mail to list.

This is not PICLIST now I did make a Atmel2051 burner as simple
as it can be, and wrote a software for that, but didnt release.

Anyone interested? (AT89C2051 DIY programmer hw costs <10USD )

Grreetings Antti

























------------------------------------------------------
-- Silicon Studio Ltd.                              --
-- EraseMEinfoRemoveMEspamSTOPspamsistudio.com http://www.sistudio.com --
------------------------------------------------------

'Re[2]: 16F84 and picstart16B1'
1996\09\12@142023 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Kalle Pihlajasaari <RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> [Quoting Brian Boles @ Microchip]:
>
> > As far as we know, the Atmel "Flash" parts use the same basic
> > technology as we do.  If it looks like ...., and smells like
> > ...., it must be ....
>
> It is not that we realy care what you call your products as long as
> you stick to a rational naming and numbering system.

Kalle, Brian, and other interested parties:

This is the point I was trying to make, too.  Here's a brief list of
part-numbering inconsistencies and annoyances:

1.  When Microchip discovered that it didn't have the worldwide
trademark on the word "PIC", every occurence of the word -- in all
the Microchip documentation -- was changed to "PIC16/17".  That's ok
(even though the wholesale blind search-and-replace sometimes made
for amusing reading), but now there are PICs which are neither
"PIC16" nor "PIC17"... Like the PIC12C50x and PIC14000.

2.  One used to be able to distinguish the low-end from the mid-range
parts by the generic designations "16C5x" and "16Cxx".  Now that the
16C55x parts have been introduced, that's no longer the case.  As
above, the 12C50x and 14000 parts don't help THIS situation, either.

3.  In most cases, an "A" designation after a part number (e.g.,
16C73A) means only that some silicon bugs have been fixed, and that
the chip is otherwise identical (except for some configuration-word
details and a little extra reset circuitry, perhaps) to a "non-A"
part.  However, there are other cases, like the 16C84A, where the
part has been significantly enhanced -- by doubling the RAM size,
for instance.

4.  When the Microchip powers-that-be decide that an "A' designation
is inappropriate for a part that's been enhanced like that, they
sometimes rename the "non-A" part AND the "A" part (e.g, the 16C71
and 16C71A became the 16C710 and 16C711), but in other cases, they
just rename the "A" part (e.g., the 16C84 keeps its old name, but
the 16C84A is now called the 16F84).

5.  As long as I'm talking about those two chips, how come the
16C71/71A got extra digits, while the 16C84A only had its LETTER
changed?  Why didn't Microchip rename the '84s "16(C/F)840" and
"16(C/F)841"?

6.  Even when the part numbers SEEM to be consistent, they can't
always be trusted.  For example, some 16CR5xA parts are derived from
the corresponding OTP 16C5xA, but others are derived from the
"non-A" 16CR5x.  The differences are subtle, but important in some
applications.

7.  Ok... So now "F" means "flash" (even though it's really EEPROM)
and "R" means ROM, right?  So what's the deal with the "FR" parts,
which are neither flash NOR rom?  Hello....?

-Andy

Andrew Warren - spamBeGonefastfwdspam@spam@ix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\09\12@153322 by Eric Smith

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face
I'll second all of Andy Warren's comments about the horrors of inconsistent
PIC part numbers.

From past experience I can guess that what is probably happening is that
Engineering makes up new part numbers in a manner that is at least somewhat
consistent, and then Marketing screws around with them.  Someone please tell
the Marketing people to keep their hands off.  Engineers are the ones who have
to decide whether the application calls for a 16C70, 16C71, 16C71A, 16C710, or
16C711, and it's getting difficult.

And the data sheets really need a section explaining the difference between
the parts.  What's the difference between a 16C54 and a 16C54A?  You have to
spend hours comparing the data sheets side-by-side to find out.

It doesn't help that Tech Pubs decided to throw dissimilar parts into
humongous data sheets.  The 16C61 and 16C71 should have been in one data
sheet, as they are almost identical, and the 16C65, 16C73, and 16C74 in
another.  It's ludicrous a single data sheet tries to cover the 16C71 and
the 16C74, which are much different.  Not to mention that when this
"grand unification" occured some details from the old data sheets got lost.
I still keep my old 16C71 and 16C74 data sheets around because even though
they may be less up-to-date, they are a hell of a lot easier to use.

What the heck are the "FR" parts anyhow?  I read some of the product briefs
(perhaps not closely enough), and I couldn't figure it out.  Somehow I
would have expected a simple one-sentence explanation of this great new
"FR" feature to be prominently displayed.  No doubt it is another Marketing
breakthrough, like calling byte-erasable conventional EEPROM "Flash".  The
whole point of Flash is that it is supposed to be cheaper than conventional
EEPROM because a real Flash cell is only trivially bigger than an EPROM cell,
rather than the *much* larger conventional EEPROM cells.  Maybe someday
Microchip will license some real Flash technology; then they can get rid of
OTP entirely.

Cheers,
Eric

1996\09\12@164234 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
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Eric Smith <RemoveMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> What the heck are the "FR" parts anyhow?  I read some of the product
> briefs (perhaps not closely enough), and I couldn't figure it out.
> Somehow I would have expected a simple one-sentence explanation of
> this great new "FR" feature to be prominently displayed.  No doubt
> it is another Marketing breakthrough, like calling byte-erasable
> conventional EEPROM "Flash".

No doubt, Eric.  Hers's the explanation you wanted; it's not one
sentence, but it's shorter than a whole databook:

The "FR" designation ("Flex-ROM", briefly also called "Fast-ROM" by
some Microchip employees) is not a product, per se... It'd be more
accurate to call it a SERVICE.  When you order FR parts, you send a
copy of your object code to Microchip.  Within a couple of weeks,
they send you a few thousand PICs already programmed with your code
(and with a custom silkscreen, if you like).

This is just like ordering mask-ROM parts, except that the minimum
order quantity is lower and the price is higher (since the PICs they
send you are really just OTP parts).  If you've ever used
Microchip's "SQTP" service, you're already familiar with the whole
concept... The only difference is that SQTP parts were programmed at
the factory, while FR parts are programmed by Microchip distributors
(or, more likely, by an outside contractor hired by the
distributor).

I don't personally know anyone who's using FR parts... My low-volume
clients want the flexibility of OTP parts, while my high-volume
clients want the low cost of real ROM parts.

However...

In order to encourage customers to buy FR parts, I believe that
Microchip is pricing them BELOW the cost of OTP parts.  This brings
up an interesting loophole:  What happens if you send them the
object code for a completely BLANK device?

-Andy

Andrew Warren - fastfwdspamspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'Using the Picstart Plus to program other micro's?'
1996\09\12@195447 by Robert Lunn

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>If that above would be made, every programmer equipped with the
>"final firmware(tm)" Would be able (at least teoretically) to program
>all devices that require equal number or less programmable pins and voltages
>as the programmer hardware actually has.

       Of course, a great many commercial programmers have been
       released over the years that use this concept.  Just have
       a lot of pins that you can set to a number of voltages,
       and then use a script file to drive the sequence in which
       particular pins are set to particular voltages.

       The reasons for obsolescence of these programmers tend to
       be package *types* rather than number of pins, the limit
       of the timing relationships between pins (can you set two
       pins to change state *simultaneously*, or with some max-
       imum delay), and the maximum rate at which a particular
       device can be programmed.

___Bob

1996\09\12@232729 by mike

flavicon
picon face
In message  <spam_OUT199609121554.SAA18278spam_OUTspamspam_OUTpepe.online.ee> PICLISTspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
writes:
[snipity snip]
>
> This is not PICLIST now I did make a Atmel2051 burner as simple
> as it can be, and wrote a software for that, but didnt release.
>
> Anyone interested? (AT89C2051 DIY programmer hw costs <10USD )

Yes, I am.


Mike

'Conversion of Parallax object file to PICSTART 16B'
1996\09\13@030459 by Ing. Pablo Otero

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At 08:22 AM 9/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm working with some people in Austria and need to send a program change to
>them via e-mail.  The problem is I've been using parallax assemblers and
>they have a PICSTART 16B1 unit.  Does any know of a utility to convert the
>object files created by PASM.EXE from parallax to the format required by the
>MicroChip PICSTART 16B1 programmer.
>

I can help with that, just type this at the dos prompt:
               pasm yourcode.src /s  <enter>
               ren yourcode.obj yourcode.hex <enter>

Bingo

Send the file yourcode.hex, now its compatible with the 16b1!!

The only special instruction for them is that they have to configure the device
number and fuses and id manualy at the 16b1 software, thats because this info is
not transfered to the yourcode.hex file you will send, it will be the same with
SPAMS or PASMX.

Pablo

{Quote hidden}

p.d. I have use the method i describe with 16c5X and 16c6XX with pasm pasmx and
spasm, and with both picstart firmware rev 1.7 and 2.0 and never had to do
anything else.



_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
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_/                       M e x i c o                            _/
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'Using the Picstart Plus to program other micro's?'
1996\09\13@031942 by Werner Terreblanche

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Date:    Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:53:42 +1000
From:    Robert Lunn <robertspamBeGonespam.....HUEY.RDD.NECA.NEC.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Using the Picstart Plus to program other micro's?

{Quote hidden}

That what I thought was how the Picstart Plus programmer works as
well.  Because Mchip claimed that this programmer will even be able
to program future realeases of microcontrollers not even on the
drawing table yet.  So there must be some sort of script file that
gets driven in aspecific sequence.  And if one knows how that script
file works, you can probable write your own drivers for it.

Does anybody know how Mchip plans to allow for future
microcontrollers on their current Picstart Plus programmer?  What I
mean is... will it be by means of firmware (17C42) replacement, or
will it just be required to get a  software update of the driver
program?

Rgds

Werner
s
--
Werner Terreblanche   Tel +27 21 7102251   Fax +27 21 721278
KILLspamwterrebspam.....plessey.co.za (work) OR spam_OUTwernerspamKILLspamaztec.co.za  (home)

1996\09\13@095008 by Jim Robertson

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At 05:12 PM 9/12/96 GMT+2, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Werner,

(I hope you meant me when you said "Jim the programmer expert." I'm not
being presumptuous am I?)  :-)

I have not seen a PS + so I can only make general comments. First, I would
be surprised if the firmware chip is a 17C42 as it would take a bit of effort
to fit all the code into just 2k. Going by previous PS 16 efforts I doubt
the Uchip employees would put this effort in. It is certainly possible to fit
the the required code in to a 17C42 but somehow I suspect the chip is a 17C43.

Again, I am guessing, but I think you might be exaggrating when you say there
are DG411 switches on "almost all the pins." Exactly how many are there and
how many are connected to *unique* pins. Given that you need two i/o lines
for each switch to mean anything, there would have to be plenty of additional
i/o support, a 40-pin PIC could not possibly handle it all. Exactly how much
additional i/o support is there?

I think if you look harder at how and where the DG411s are connected, you might
be disillusioned somewhat, Right?

Never-the-less, it is possible to change the firmware and get the PS+ to program
lots of different devices. However, as for doing it onboard, I have very
strong doubts. I just don't think that you will be able to program much more
than PIC
parts and maybe a few other small devices like  SEEPROMS, and KEELOC parts etc.

I realize the PS+ programs the 17C4x devices and these devices require 25
meaningful i/o lines. This would be just be enough to program some smaller
parallel eproms in theory. However, when you factor in the additional
multiplexing signals required, this is becoming very complicated indeed.
After all,
the 25 i/o lines aren't all in the right places are they?

Now, to Antti's comments.

I have had a discussion with Antti about his pin driver idea. He loves it, I
don't.
At the very best, a universal programmer based on a pin driver concept would
take at least 5 time longer to program than specifically targeted code.
Also, as
Robert Lunn correctly pointed out, there is still no guarantee that you can
cover every possibility. In practice, "final firmware" is a dangerous claim
indeed.

The microchip Promate allows new firmware to be downloaded. This is a far
better
way to guarantee future suitability.

Anyway, hope I have given you have enough food for thought on the matter.

Regards

Jim

'Re[2]: 16F84 and picstart16B1'
1996\09\13@095015 by Jim Robertson

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>
>This is the point I was trying to make, too.  Here's a brief list of
>part-numbering inconsistencies and annoyances:

>
>3.  In most cases, an "A" designation after a part number (e.g.,
>16C73A) means only that some silicon bugs have been fixed, and that
>the chip is otherwise identical (except for some configuration-word
>details and a little extra reset circuitry, perhaps) to a "non-A"
>part.  However, there are other cases, like the 16C84A, where the
>part has been significantly enhanced -- by doubling the RAM size,
>for instance.

Further more, there are times a "A" suffix is not added when in fact the
part is an "A-TYPE" device. The 16C63 is one such case. The real importance
here is that everyone knows the 16Cxx "A" parts have uneraseable code protection
but not so the non "A" parts. But the 16C63 being an "A" suffix type without
the
"A" is a TRAP.

DON'T use the code protection on the 16C63-JW parts.

>
>4.  When the Microchip powers-that-be decide that an "A' designation
>is inappropriate for a part that's been enhanced like that, they
>sometimes rename the "non-A" part AND the "A" part (e.g, the 16C71
>and 16C71A became the 16C710 and 16C711), but in other cases, they
>just rename the "A" part (e.g., the 16C84 keeps its old name, but
>the 16C84A is now called the 16F84).
>

Actually Andy, I think you are wrong here. The 16C710 is NOT a renamed
16C71, it is a renamed 16C70. The 16C70 was an "A-TYPE" revision to begin
with without the "A" suffix (Like the 16C63.)  So here, there IS a little
method in the madness. (But strong emphasis on "little.")  As far as I know,
the 16C71 is still the 16C71.


>5.  As long as I'm talking about those two chips, how come the
>16C71/71A got extra digits, while the 16C84A only had its LETTER
>changed?  Why didn't Microchip rename the '84s "16(C/F)840" and
>"16(C/F)841"?

I know!!! (Me thinks I know at least!) It's because microchip have
decided that all 16Cxx parts with A/D will be generically 16C7x?.
The 16C710/711/715 are all of the same generic sub-branch. Without the
extra digit, not all the planned A/D devices could be included under the
16C7X? brand.

The 16C84A becames 16F84 as a misleading marketing tool. We all understand this
much....

Without the extra digit when the 16C84 has an generic overlap with the 16C71,
can we conclude the 16C8x family will not be as extensive as the 16C7x family?
>
>
>-Andy
>
It is not just the stuffing arround with the part numbers that are a pain.
The arbitrary "paper" changes to certain devices is also a REAL hazzard. The
latest device to suffer from this is the PIC14000. The Code protect scheme
is NOT the same as it was orginally specified. However ALL the current AP
notes,
and latest header files still are using the OLD specification.

Any programmer designed arround the new specification is gone to give different
results to the code protection!!! Further more, the user may not even know this
has happened! Does this concern anyone other than myself?

Jim

'Using the Picstart Plus to program other micro's?'
1996\09\13@095356 by Jim Robertson

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At 09:30 AM 9/13/96 GMT+2, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

There may, or may not need to be firmware replacements, at this stage
not even microchip would know that for certain.

What we do know is that the algorithms AND PIC pinouts are becaming very
much standard. This is why microchip say it will program future pics, it is not
because they are using pin drivers.

Regards

Jim

'Re[2]: 16F84 and picstart16B1'
1996\09\15@133532 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
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Jim Robertson <KILLspamPICLISTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> >the 16C71 and 16C71A became the 16C710 and 16C711
>
> Actually Andy, I think you are wrong here. The 16C710 is NOT a
> renamed 16C71, it is a renamed 16C70. The 16C70 was an "A-TYPE"
> revision to begin with without the "A" suffix (Like the 16C63.)  So
> here, there IS a little method in the madness. (But strong emphasis
> on "little.")  As far as I know, the 16C71 is still the 16C71.

Jim:

Sorry; that was a typo.  I meant, "the 16C70 and 16C71A became the
16C710 and 16C711".

-Andy

Andrew Warren - fastfwdspamspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'Using the Picstart Plus to program other micro's?'
1996\09\16@045116 by Werner Terreblanche

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face
Date:    Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:49:31 -0500
From:    Jim Robertson <RemoveMEnewfoundspamBeGonespamRemoveMENE.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Using the Picstart Plus to program other micro's?

At 05:12 PM 9/12/96 GMT+2, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Werner,

>(I hope you meant me when you said "Jim the programmer expert." I'm
>not being presumptuous am I?)  :-)

Yes, I meant you.   :)


>I have not seen a PS + so I can only make general comments. First, I
>would be surprised if the firmware chip is a 17C42 as it would take a
>bit of effort to fit all the code into just 2k. Going by previous PS
>16 efforts I doubt the Uchip employees would put this effort in. It is
>certainly possible to fit the the required code in to a 17C42 but
>somehow I suspect the chip is a 17C43.

Could be a 17C43 or a 42.  I didn't want to take label of the chip to
look what was written underneath  it, so I just assumed it was a 17C42.

>Again, I am guessing, but I think you might be exaggrating when you
>say there are DG411 switches on "almost all the pins." Exactly how
>many are there and how many are connected to *unique* pins. Given that
>you need two i/o lines for each switch to mean anything, there would
>have to be plenty of additional i/o support, a 40-pin PIC could not
>possibly handle it all. Exactly how much additional i/o support is
>there?

I see your point.  There are six DG411 chips on the board and each
DG411 contains four switches, so you were right in saying that not
all of the pins are covered, but it probably still means that enough
of them are.   Anyway, the I/O support is handled by some74HC164
shift register and I don't quite understand why you said that two i/o lines
are needed for each switch.

>I think if you look harder at how and where the DG411s are connected,
>you might be disillusioned somewhat, Right?

I'll have use a multimeter and ring out what switches are connected
to what pins before I can comment.

>Never-the-less, it is possible to change the firmware and get the PS+
>to program lots of different devices. However, as for doing it
>onboard, I have very strong doubts. I just don't think that you will
>be able to program much more than PIC parts and maybe a few other
>small devices like  SEEPROMS, and KEELOC parts etc.

Yeah, the one big problem is possible that the crystal ossiclator is
on different pins for some of these other microcontrollers.


>I realize the PS+ programs the 17C4x devices and these devices require
>25 meaningful i/o lines. This would be just be enough to program some
>smaller parallel eproms in theory. However, when you factor in the
>additional multiplexing signals required, this is becoming very
>complicated indeed. After all, the 25 i/o lines aren't all in the
>right places are they?

Probably not.

>I have had a discussion with Antti about his pin driver idea. He loves
>it, I don't. At the very best, a universal programmer based on a pin
>driver concept would take at least 5 time longer to program than
>specifically targeted code. Also, as Robert Lunn correctly pointed
>out, there is still no guarantee that you can cover every possibility.
>In practice, "final firmware" is a dangerous claim indeed.

Unless they also allow for the firmware to be downloaded, but I could
not see any eeproms or any other memory device that could hold the
firmware externally to the controller micro.

>The microchip Promate allows new firmware to be downloaded. This is a
>far better way to guarantee future suitability.
>
>Anyway, hope I have given you have enough food for thought on the
>matter.

Yeah, I presume its not really worth the effort for me alone to try
and fiddle with changing the firmware.  It would be far cheaper and
less of an effort to just buy or build another programmer for the
other devices that I also want to program.  I guess I was sort of
hoping to get an easy answer for this, but it seems its not as simple
as it looks.

Thank you for your comments, Jim.

Regards

Werner.
--
Werner Terreblanche   Tel +27 21 7102251   Fax +27 21 721278
KILLspamwterrebspamBeGonespamplessey.co.za (work) OR @spam@wernerSTOPspamspam@spam@aztec.co.za  (home)

1996\09\17@091958 by Jim Robertson

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>I see your point.  There are six DG411 chips on the board and each
>DG411 contains four switches, so you were right in saying that not
>all of the pins are covered, but it probably still means that enough
>of them are.   Anyway, the I/O support is handled by some74HC164
>shift register and I don't quite understand why you said that two i/o lines
>are needed for each switch.

Well, not all of them use two I/O lines but some do, one to control the gate
and the other to act as the digital I/O they requires isolation depending on
the device pinout.

Lets do a count. There are four unique pinouts as far as the programmer is
concerned:

1 - 18-pin devices (all)
2 - 28/40-pin 16Cxx
3 - 28-pin 16C5x
4 - 8-pin
5 - 40-pin 17C4x devices

We need to switch GND, Vdd, and Vpp. To do this we have already we have used
15 of the 24 switches. The remaining will be used to switch the digital I/O
to the same 15-pins.

From this one can conclude the PS+ is designed for programming PICs and cannot
be configured as a universal programmer.

Anyway, to program standard eproms, a 6V Vdd is required. This is not available
on the PS+.
>
>>I think if you look harder at how and where the DG411s are connected,
>>you might be disillusioned somewhat, Right?
>
>I'll have use a multimeter and ring out what switches are connected
>to what pins before I can comment.

And I'll get by will educated guesses! :-)

{Quote hidden}

My pleasure Werner but sorry to be a kill-joy.


Regards

Jim

1996\09\18@021917 by Werner Terreblanche

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face
>Anyway, to program standard eproms, a 6V Vdd is required. This is not
>available on the PS+

>From this one can conclude the PS+ is designed for programming PICs
>and cannot be configured as a universal programmer.

Unfortunately I must admit that even if one can get by programming
a few other devices which just might *happen* to coincide with the
PS's pinout, it is probably not wort the effort.

>>Thank you for your comments, Jim.
>My pleasure Werner but sorry to be a kill-joy.

Not at all.  Rather hear this now than waste a couple of days trying
to do this and then discover that it can not be done.  There is much
better things to waste time on.... especially now that summer is
approaching here in the southern hemisphere!  :)

Regards

Werner
--
Werner Terreblanche   Tel +27 21 7102251   Fax +27 21 721278
wterrebspamBeGonespamspamBeGoneplessey.co.za (work) OR spamBeGonewernerspamaztec.co.za  (home)

'Problems with MPLAB 3.10 and PICStart Plus 1.20'
1996\09\30@232821 by myke predko

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Hi Folks,

Has anybody else successfully loaded the latest (at least on the Web Page)
versions of MPLAB and PICStart Plus?

I had a number of problems loading MPLAB 3.10 and PSP 1.20 - the first time,
I could no longer use Trumpet Winsock and could no longer get on the web.

Now, I do have it working, but I get the message the first time I enable the
programmer: "An updated version of PICSTART Plus firmware is available,...".
When I look at the "Readme" file, I see that I have to get a new 17C44 to
load the firmware on.  Does anybody have any comments on this?

Next, once I "Okay" past this message, I get "Open projects must be rebuilt
to properly coordinate device informatoin with PICSTART Plus".  What does
this mean?  Inside the code, I identify the PIC although, MPLAB doesn't seem
to remember the device being used in the PICStart Plus Window.

As well, the Configuration fuses don't seem to be updated (although in the
docs, it indicates that they should be).

Has anybody else seen this, or are working with the software yet?

Myke

Do you ever feel like an XT Clone caught in the Pentium Pro Zone?


'Problems with MPLAB 3.10 and PICStart Plus 1.20'
1996\10\01@085659 by Philip Restuccia
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> Hi Folks,
>
> Has anybody else successfully loaded the latest (at least on the Web Page)
> versions of MPLAB and PICStart Plus?

I loaded it on my Toshiba Satellite 105CS last night, but didn't have enough
time
left to play with it.

>
> I had a number of problems loading MPLAB 3.10 and PSP 1.20 - the first time,
> I could no longer use Trumpet Winsock and could no longer get on the web.

Hmmm.  When I ran it, I noticed that my Desktop Glidepoint started acting *very*
erratic.  Stayed that way, too, after I exited MPLAB.  Had to reboot the laptop
to get back even operation of the Glidepoint.  (Note: I have the Glidepoint on
the
PS/2 port, NOT the serial port).  Would anyone else have any insight as to why
this
would have happened?

Philip Restuccia
spam_OUTphilip.restucciaSTOPspamspamperi.com

1996\10\03@171151 by myke predko

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Hi Kim,

Thanx for the reply, I haven't spoken to you in a while.

>
>     The "An updated version..." message is a warning that newer firmware
>     exists and that not all of the devices will be supported by the
>     firmware version you are running.  For example, the PIC12C508 is not
>     supported by firmware version 1.01.  If you are using firmware version
>     1.01, you will not be allowed to select the PIC12C508.

I understand this and I'm looking at getting a 17C44 to put in it's place.
This is turning out to be surprisingly difficult.  I have contacted our rep
here in Toronto and they're getting a couple for me.

>
>     The "Open projects must be..." message is a warning that device
>     information is reinitialized when PICSTART Plus is enabled.  If you
>     had a project open when you enabled PICSTART Plus, you must either
>     rebuild the project or import the hex file.  In the future, PICSTART
>     Plus will be better coordinated with the simulator and emulator
>     memory.

I'm not really sure what this means.  Right now, I am building the project
then enabling PICSTART Plus, burning the part and everything works fine.
Except that I have to manually set the configuration bits.

>
>     PICSTART Plus must be enabled to update the configuration bits.  Then
>     they updated properly by reading a device, building a project, or
>     importing a hex file.

As I said above, I have to manually set the Configuration Bits on the
PICSTART Plus enabled window.  Not a big deal, but a bit of a pain
(especially when you've just put in your last mod to you code, you *think*
everything will work and then the PIC doesn't enable the right oscillator
and it just sits there)...

>
>     Hope this helps!

Thanx for the reply, I guess my biggest problem was that when I loaded in
MPLAB 3.10 the first time, I lost the use of my serial port and modem.  I
still don't understand why, because when I uninstalled MPLAB and then
reloaded it, everything worked fine!  To be totally fair, it could also be
my PC which is really on it's last legs.

myke

>
>     Kim Cooper

Do you ever feel like an XT Clone caught in the Pentium Pro Zone?

'MPLAB and Picstart Plus compatibility.'
1996\10\15@094926 by Werner Terreblanche

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Hi everybody

 I know there was a recent discussion of this topic on the Piclist,
but at the time I didn't really pay much attention and now I whish
that I did!  :(

I wanted to upgrade to MPLAB v3.10 because this was supposed to
support my newly aquired PCB & PCM C compilers from CCS.  Only now
that I upgraded, I find that I can't communicate with the  PICSTART
Plus programmer anymore.    I am using the recommended Picstart
plus software v1.20.07.

Does anybody else have the same problem, or is my Picstart Plus
programmer faulty?  I know there is also an upgrade hex file
available from the Microchip website for upgrading the firmware, but
I assumed this was only neccessary if you wanted your programmer to
support all the latest hardware.  Will my problems dissapear if I buy
a new 17C44 and upgrade my firmware?

I'm going to try and go back to my previous version of MLAB V3.01
now, because version 3.09 is no longer available from Microchip's
website.  Hopefully my programmer will start to work when I do this,
but this seems to be my only hope.... or is it?

Regards
Werner





 PICSTART Plus v1.20.07 requires MPLAB v3.10 or greater.  PICSTART
 Plus v1.20.07 will not work with older versions of MPLAB, and MPLAB
 v3.10 will not work with older versions of PICSTART Plus. These
 versions include compatibility checks to ensure that version
 requirements are met.
--
Werner Terreblanche   Tel +27 21 7102251   Fax +27 21 721278
RemoveMEwterrebspamspamplessey.co.za (work) OR TakeThisOuTwernerspamspamRemoveMEaztec.co.za  (home)

1996\10\15@120301 by Todd Peterson

picon face
At 03:58 PM 10/15/96 GMT+2, you wrote:

>I wanted to upgrade to MPLAB v3.10 because this was supposed to
>support my newly aquired PCB & PCM C compilers from CCS.  Only now
>that I upgraded, I find that I can't communicate with the  PICSTART
>Plus programmer anymore.    I am using the recommended Picstart
>plus software v1.20.07.
>
>Does anybody else have the same problem, or is my Picstart Plus
>programmer faulty?  I know there is also an upgrade hex file
>available from the Microchip website for upgrading the firmware, but
>I assumed this was only neccessary if you wanted your programmer to
>support all the latest hardware.  Will my problems dissapear if I buy
>a new 17C44 and upgrade my firmware?
>
>I'm going to try and go back to my previous version of MLAB V3.01
>now, because version 3.09 is no longer available from Microchip's
>website.  Hopefully my programmer will start to work when I do this,
>but this seems to be my only hope.... or is it?


Can someone perhaps shed the light of experience on this?  I too would like
to use the CCS PCM C Compiler with MPLAB, but have heard of trouble from the
latest version of MPLAB.

Also, what will using a new 17C44 do for the Picstart Plus?

I don't believe the CCS C Compiler can be used with version 3.09, can it?

Thanks for the time,

Todd Peterson

1996\10\15@122419 by myke predko

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Werner wrote:

>
>I wanted to upgrade to MPLAB v3.10 because this was supposed to
>support my newly aquired PCB & PCM C compilers from CCS.  Only now
>that I upgraded, I find that I can't communicate with the  PICSTART
>Plus programmer anymore.    I am using the recommended Picstart
>plus software v1.20.07.
>
>Does anybody else have the same problem, or is my Picstart Plus
>programmer faulty?

Werner, I just changed to a new PC and as part of the change over, I
installed MPLAB 3.10.03 directly (into the Windows 95 that came with the PC)
and was able to program directly to my PICSTART Plus without any problems.

But, I have had a number of problems upgrading MPLAB on my old PC and here
are the two big things that I are a few things I learned:

1.  Terminate your old MPLAB with extreme prejudice.  This means after
"Uninstalling" MPLAB, go through your directories and search out any
remaining files and delete them.  Delete the subdirectory you loaded MPLAB
onto.  Then, copy in and Delete a couple of big unrelated files just to make
sure that your FAT file is changed.  I found if your MPLAB subdirectory is
not nuked, the new version of MPLAB wouldn't work.

2.  Look for all copies of DWCC.DLL and replace them with the latest copy
(comes with MPLAB or you can get it of the Microsoft ftp server).  I got
caught on this one right at the start.

I found that going from 3.09 to 3.10.01 required Uninstalling 2x and then
the programmer would work.

You might also check the Serial Port to see if you are using the correct one.

Good Luck, I know it can be a pain in the ass, but it is worth it,

Myke

Do you ever feel like an XT Clone caught in the Pentium Pro Zone?

1996\10\15@134457 by Shawn Ellis

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>>I wanted to upgrade to MPLAB v3.10 because this was supposed to
>>support my newly aquired PCB & PCM C compilers from CCS.  Only now
>>that I upgraded, I find that I can't communicate with the  PICSTART
>>Plus programmer anymore.    I am using the recommended Picstart
>>plus software v1.20.07.
>>
>Can someone perhaps shed the light of experience on this?  I too would like
>to use the CCS PCM C Compiler with MPLAB, but have heard of trouble from the
>latest version of MPLAB.
>
Well, I use the CCS compiler with great success with a RICE16 ICE and a
picstart16C.  The problems I have encountered are:

It doesn't save parameters like object file extensions and fonts and stuff.
So you can compile and not really get a new .HEX file.  So make sure your
object file types are set right.

Otherwise, call and consult with CCS, I have found them to be very
responsive in dealing with problems with my RICE.

1996\10\16@011419 by tjaart

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Werner Terreblanche wrote:
>
> Hi everybody
>
>   I know there was a recent discussion of this topic on the Piclist,
> but at the time I didn't really pay much attention and now I whish
> that I did!  :(
>
> I wanted to upgrade to MPLAB v3.10 because this was supposed to
> support my newly aquired PCB & PCM C compilers from CCS.  Only now
> that I upgraded, I find that I can't communicate with the  PICSTART
> Plus programmer anymore.    I am using the recommended Picstart
> plus software v1.20.07.

Contact Willem Hijbeek (KILLspamwillem.hijbeekspamspamspam_OUTMicrochip.com). He is the local
representative of Microchip in SA. Explain your problem to him. I think
you will be surprised at the good level of back-up here in the sticks.
Expect a really quick response.

Friendly regards

Tjaart van der Walt
________________________________________________________________
R&D Engineer       | GSM vehicle tracking and datacomm solutions
WASP International | +27-(0)11-622-8686 | http://wasp.co.za

1996\10\16@024450 by Werner Terreblanche

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Hi all

Special thanks to Myke Predko <mykeRemoveMEspamPASSPORT.CA> and  Todd Peterson
<EraseMEelabSTOPspamspamRemoveMENETINS.NET> for their responses to my posting and Myke's help
on getting MPLAB to work with the Picstart Plus programmer.  It finally seems to
work now.

{Quote hidden}

I also thought so at first, but the PCM complier does work with the
MPLAB v3.10.   Even though the PCB compiler is not listed when you select
add/modify in the edit menu, you can still add it manually by typing
in PCML on the command line.

>Also, what will using a new 17C44 do for the Picstart Plus?

As far as I can tell, you get to program some addtional devices not
supported in the older version.  I haven't really made a comparison
as to exactly what devices, but I seem to recall reading that
somewhere in the documentation.  It might be worth the trouble after
all.

>I don't believe the CCS C Compiler can be used with version 3.09, can
>it?

According the customer support people at CCS,  yes it can.

Regards

Werner
--
Werner Terreblanche   Tel +27 21 7102251   Fax +27 21 721278
spam_OUTwterrebRemoveMEspamEraseMEplessey.co.za (work) OR TakeThisOuTwernerRemoveMEspam@spam@aztec.co.za  (home)

'MPLAB & PICSTART PLUS'
1996\10\17@025858 by tjaart

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I saw on the MNicrochip's web page that you shouldn't delete your old
version of MPLAB before installing 3.10.01 They've even kept the
previous version so you can install PICSTART PLUS and THEN upgrade to
MPLAB 3.10.01

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
________________________________________________________________
R&D Engineer       | GSM vehicle tracking and datacomm solutions
WASP International | +27-(0)11-622-8686 | http://wasp.co.za

1996\10\17@130516 by Darrel Johansen

picon face
MPLAB v3.10.03 (the latest version on Microchip's web page and BBS) will
install MPLAB software, then look in your installing directory for the
older version of the PICSTART Plus driver, called MPPLUS.DLL and ask if
you want to install the new PICSTART Plus software.

If you have deleted your older files before installing, copy any file
into the directory where MPLAB will be installed and rename it
MPPLUS.DLL.  Then MPLAB v3.10.03 will see the file and let you install
PICSTART Plus software, too.

The new PICSTART Plus software offers no new features, but it must be
used with MPLAB v3.10.03.  New PICSTART Plus firmware, however, does add
support for some new processors.  New firmware does not have to be
installed unless you want to program these newer devices.  See the
README.PLS text file for more information.  You'll need a blank 17C44 to
upgrade the firmware.

Darrel Johansen
EraseMEdarrel.johansenRemoveMEspammicrochip.com

'%&#$(!@ ADVERT! Shareware PICSTART 16B upgrade.'
1996\10\22@095856 by Jim Robertson

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Hi Folks,


This is sort of an advert so I guess some people can stop reading here and
send your complaints directly to: spamnewfound.....spamspamne.com.au.

After much thought, I have decided to release my (DOS) PICSTART 16B upgrade
"PHOENIX" via shareware. "Shareware" because I have not, as yet, been able
to complete the software to the standard I would like. Somehow, I don't
think I ever will unless I learn C or basic as trying to do everything in
assembler is just to..., just to..., well, dumb really....

However, I have something that is working and highly functional and there is
no point in just letting it rot on my hard disk. The important part,
programming the PICs, is just fine, only things like pulldown menus and file
search options etc. are missing.
Anyway, no-one complained about these omittions with my other programmers
(and lived!) but I would have liked my picstart software to give you
everything you already had _plus_ the heaps extra I'm offering.

Anyway, here is the plan...

I have a PICSTART 16B upgrade that allows the old bucket to program all of
these lovely PICS: (With adapters where required.)

16C52,54,54A,54B,55,56,56B,57,58A,58B
16C552,554,556
16C61,62,62A,63,64,64A,65,65A,66,67
16C620,621,622
16C641,642
16C661,662
16C71,710,711,715,72,73,73A,74,74A
16C84*
16F83,84*   (*With data _full_ data eeprom support!)
16C922,923
PIC14000 OTP and JW  (With full, automatic calibration support)
PIC12C50x  (Not tested yet, with calibration word support)

(Note for my existing programmer users. Don't think you have  been
abandoned, a WARP-3 driver for all the currently unsupported devices is
being tested now.)

I think that is about all of them. As you can see, it offers substantually
more support than the original product and new devices will be added.

On the minus side, as I said, I cannot currently offer pulldown menus and
file and directory  search options and other "nice" stuff like this and I am
very disappointed and more than slightly bashful about it.

However, if you are prepared to for go these frilly bits, you can have a
much more functional programmer.

If anyone is interested, I would love to hear from you just so I cam gauge
the level of support for this project. I propose to put the .HEX code on my
web page and allow people to program there own 17Cxx chip (any size or type
of 17Cxx is suitable but I recommend using a JW part for future upgrades.)
Intially, all the software will be freely supplied and hopefully people will
register the software for a small amount of dollars. ($20-$25US seems
reasonable to me.)

If there is interest, I may also offer a basic 17Cxx programmer design as
shareware. This will be a minimum (read "cheap") design but enough to
program the 17Cxx parts. You will need a (any) 40-pin 16Cxx part and I will
show you how you can program the "17Cxx burner firmware" into it just using
a picstart 16B. That's right, you don't need a special 16C64/74 programmer.

So even if you have only a PS 16B, you will end up with two programmers
capable of programming every PIC device between them.

Anyway, as I said, I would like to hear from interested people as it is only
the interest in this that is providing the "push" for me to put it all
together in releaseable form. Otherwise, I'll play games allday. (love
Descent II, Quake was disappointing.)

Thank-you Piclister's for this indulgence, hope some of you found it of
interest.

Interested peoples, please email me directly at:

newfoundspam_OUTspam@spam@ne.com.au


Regards,

Jim

'Re[2]: MPLAB and Picstart Plus compatibility.'
1996\10\23@094356 by myke predko

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face
>Return-Path: <.....Norm.LeMieuxspamspam.....microchip.com>
>Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 12:36:24 -0700
>From: Norm.LeMieuxKILLspamspamEraseMEMicrochip.COM (Norm LeMieux)
>Subject: Re[2]: MPLAB and Picstart Plus compatibility.
>To: myke predko <EraseMEmyke@spam@spam@spam@PASSPORT.CA>
>Content-Description: cc:Mail note part
>X-UIDL: 6bf645e8ca26d8dafda258288876005c
>
>     I assume you mean BWCC.DLL...
>
>

Sorry about that.  Yes, I did mean "BWCC.DLL", not "DWCC.DLL" when I was
talking about installing the latest versions of MPLAB.

Hopefully nobody went looking for DWCC.DLL...

Myke

Avoiding precedents does not mean nothing should ever be done.  It only
means that nothing should ever be done for the first time - Sir Humphrey
Appleby K.C.B.

'**READ BEFORE USING** PHOENIX PICSTART 16B'
1996\10\24@095258 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
STOP PRESS.. STOP PRESS.. It seems I am not getting any mail delivered other
than
"local" stuff. Sorry if anyone has been trying to get though to me but I
have received
nothin' from the piclist or outside Australia for over twelve hours, this is
some sort of record I think!


Here is some urgent clarification for those who have downloaded the PHOENIX
test package.

First, please note that I have started a mail list. Anyone wanting more
information or attempting to use the phoenix upgrade please subscribe NOW
for the convenience of everyone.

Send an email to @spam@newfoundspamspamKILLspamne.com.au with "subscribe phoenix mail list" in
the BODY of the message.

Get on my list so we can leave the piclist alone.

Anyway, here is the important news you should have while waiting on the
documentation to come online.


The devices that can be programmed in the EXISTING 28-pin Zif socket
are the following.

16C5x
16C55x
16C61
16C62x
16C71/710/711/715
16C84
16F8x

Note that the ONLY 28-pin devices that can be programmed in this socket
are the 16C55 and 16C57. THAT IS ALL!

However ALL 18-pin devices can be  programmed on-board.

To program all other 16Cxx 28-pin and 40-pin devices you must add a
"USER" 40-pin socket. Hint: Use an "ARIES" type zif socket as this will
take both the 600mil and 300mil "skinny dip" devices.

To connect the new 40-pin socket. 5 connections are required to the 28-pin
zif. These are:

Name  PICSTART 16B    "USER" 40-pin
     28-pin zif #     socket #

Vpp    Pin-9           Pin-1
GND    Pin-10          Pin-12/31
RB6    Pin-17          Pin-39
RB7    Pin-18          Pin-40
Vdd    Pin-19          Pin11/32

Note again, the new skinny dip parts (16C62/63/72/73/64x/66x etc, etc, are
programmed in the top (pin-1 justified) of the new, user added 40-pin socket
and NOT in the existing 28-pin socket.

The PIC14000 and PIC12Cxxx will also require a DIFFERENT socket arrangement
again. DO NOT use the on board socket OR the 40-pin socket described above
for these two devices. The socket arrangement for these devices is currently
undescribed here or anyway else by myself and will be attended too as time
permits.

The 16C92x is also unique again but as it won't fit in either of the above
sockets, I'm sure you can figure this one out.

So, to summarize, the response to the phoenix offer has turned out to be
very good (after a frightfully slow start.)

Everyone interested, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, subscribe to my phoenix list
for technical support and announcements.

Note the above socketing arrangements carefully!

Thank-you all.

Jim

'What's the difference bet. the 16b1 and PicStartPl'
1996\10\25@170828 by Jerome Knapp

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What's the difference between these two programmers?
Thanks.

spamBeGonejjknapRemoveMEspamEraseMEskcla.monsanto.com

1996\10\26@013230 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
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Jerome Knapp <RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> What's the difference between these two programmers?

Jerome:

Also, the PicStart Plus programs ALL the PICs, from the 8-pin 12C50x
to the 17C44.  The 16B1 programs only a small subset.

Also, the 16B1 doesn't interface directly with MPLAB; it's controlled
by a DOS program called MPSTART.  On the other hand, the PicStart
Plus REQUIRES MPLAB, which means that you can only use it if your PC
is running Windows.

The PicStart Plus comes in a nice case and satisfies European CE
requirements for emitted radiation; the 16B1 is a bare board and
doesn't.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - TakeThisOuTfastfwdspamix.netcom.com                 ===
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California          ===
===                                                       ===
=== Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see:  ===
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.html ===

1996\10\26@170647 by Gerhard Fiedler

flavicon
face
At 22:35 25/10/96 -0800, Andrew Warren wrote:
>> What's the difference between these two programmers?
>
>Also, the PicStart Plus programs ALL the PICs, from the 8-pin 12C50x
>to the 17C44.  The 16B1 programs only a small subset.
>
>The PicStart Plus comes in a nice case and satisfies European CE
>requirements for emitted radiation; the 16B1 is a bare board and
>doesn't.

The strange thing that made me ask this before is that they cost about the
same...

'Used Picstart 16B1 wanted'
1996\10\27@175815 by Franco

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face
Hi, i'm looking for one used Picstart 16B1 Microchip PIC programmer:if
you have one please send me your request.
My address is: spamBeGonefraguiKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTmbox.vol.it
Thanks

1996\10\28@023732 by Tino Mirenna

flavicon
face
>you have one please send me your request.
>My address is: EraseMEfragui.....spamKILLspammbox.vol.it
>Thanks


Parliamone.....
Puoi contattarmi telefinicamente ?


                      \\\|///
                    \\  ~ ~  //
                     (  @ @  )
--------------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo-------------
Tino MIRENNA

Consiglio Nazionale delle   Ricerche
c/o Istituto di Ricerca sul Rischio Sismico
Via Ampere, 56
I - 20131 MILANO

tel:+39-2-70630360;70643622 fax:+39-2-26680987
E-mail:spamtinospammirenna.irrs.mi.cnr.it
----------------------------------------------

1996\10\28@173437 by myke predko

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face
Hi Franco,

I've got one that's looking for a home.

$60.00 U.S. although I would like to talk about shipping...

Myke
>Hi, i'm looking for one used Picstart 16B1 Microchip PIC programmer:if
>you have one please send me your request.
>My address is: fraguiSTOPspamspammbox.vol.it
>Thanks
>
>

Avoiding precedents does not mean nothing should ever be done.  It only
means that nothing should ever be done for the first time - Sir Humphrey
Appleby K.C.B.


'Another PICSTART PLUS programmer'
1996\11\04@110430 by David J. Porter
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face
I also have a never opened, still shrink wrapped PicStart Plus
programmer available for sale.  I will ship COD from Philadelphia
ASAP.

Make me an offer, I am reasonable.

Sincerely,
David Porter
dporterSTOPspamspamKILLspamvoicenet.com
(215) 579 0597
"Next week, a doctor with a flashlight shows us where sales
projections come from."  Dogbert


'How to get Picstart+ to automatically set processo'
1996\12\26@220503 by Brooke
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Happy Holidays:

I am changing from working with a 16F84 to a 16C63.
What do I need to do to get the Picstart+ to
change processor based on the assembly code?

Thanks,


'Program PIC16C73 with a PICSTART-16B1 ???'
1997\02\10@083823 by Bob Segrest
picon face
Greetings,

I am interested in using a PIC16C73 chip for a project.  Unfortunately, it
appears that my PICSTART-16B1 programmer won't do the job.

Can anyone tell me what the difference is between a PICSTART-16B1 and a
PICSTART-16C1 programmer ???

Is it just something simple like pin outs ???

Bob Segrest

'For Sale:Never used Picstart16C programmer and lot'
1997\02\10@135604 by map

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face
Abandoned project forces sale.

For Sale: Brand new Picstart 16C, with 16C74 chip, books, software, etc.

Also many IC's (unused in antistatic bags) including 1 extra 16C74 (EEPROM
type) and 1 16C73 (EEPROM type). See complete list of items for sale below.

Item #1: Picstart 16C Programmer with 16C74 EEPROM chip, complete book set
including Microchip Data Book, Embedded Control Handbook, Non-volatile
Memory Data Book, software, quick start guide, etc.

Item #2: Walling Co. UV EEPROM Eraser (Digi-key #ER2-ND).

Item #3: 16C74 EEPROM IC

Item #4: 16C73 EEPROM IC

Item #5: IC Grab bag of cool IC's. 28 pc. content of grab bag is:

       Qty     Manuf.          Mfg. Part #     Description
       2       Dallas          DS1381          NV Ramport, 2Kx8 static ram,
Mux Addr/Data bus, 10 year internal battery life, nice chips.
       2       Microchip       24C32           Serial I2C  bus EE Static Ram
       5       Philips         PCF8593         I2C bus Real time clock/calendar
       5       Philips         PCF8570         I2C bus 256x8 Static Ram
       5       Philips         SAA1064         I2C bus 4 digit LED Driver
       1       Linear Tech     LT1121          Low-power Regulator (5v)
       2       Linear Tech     LT1173          Low-power Switching Reg. (5v)
       2       Linear Tech     LTC1277         12 bit 10mW A/D Conv.
       2       Linear Tech     LTC1274         12 bit 10mW A/D Conv.
       2       Linear Tech     LTC1384         5v RS232 2Dx/2Rx, w/2Rx
"keep alive"
       1                       SG531P          4Mhz Crystal Osc.

Also included in the grab bag is the Philips I2C product line technical book
and if you twist my arm I'll throw in the complete Linear Tech (1990 to
1996) book set which includes all their component manuals and their
applications books (about 5 large books).

I'm asking $100 (U.S.) for item#1, $130 (U.S.) for items 1, 3 and 4, or $175
for everything.

I paid over $400 (U.S.) for all of it. Cost of shipping not included.

Please send email to     @spam@map1.....spamspamtidepool.com

'Program PIC16C73 with a PICSTART-16B1 ???'
1997\02\10@155340 by mike

flavicon
picon face
In message  <spam3.0.32.19970210083611.00d495f8.....spam.....pop.erols.com>> PICLIST.....spamMITVMA.MIT.EDU writes:
> Greetings,
>
> I am interested in using a PIC16C73 chip for a project.  Unfortunately, it
> appears that my PICSTART-16B1 programmer won't do the job.
>
> Can anyone tell me what the difference is between a PICSTART-16B1 and a
> PICSTART-16C1 programmer ???
>
> Is it just something simple like pin outs ???
>
Bob,

I have been using Jim Robertsons' "Phoenix" upgrade to do
exactly what you are trying to do. (Program a C73 on a 16B1).

You should check out  http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~newfound

Regards,


Mike Watson

'Updating PICSTART PLUS..'
1997\02\25@063110 by Juan Manuel Mu–oz

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Hi     I need download update Picstart Plus file PSP12100.HEX. D'ont find
this file, please you have this file for my??
Thanks --  


Juan Manuel Mu–oz  
ADECOM (Andaluza de Comunicaciones)
El Puerto de Santa Maria (CADIZ) Spain


'Upgrading the Picstart Plus--HELP!'
1997\04\11@090553 by Mark Jurras
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I tried unsuccessfully to upgrade my Picstart Plus yesterday.

Every time I start the Picstart Plus from MPLAB 3.22.00 I get a message box
that states there is a firmware upgrade. I ordered a PIC17C44-25/P and
followed the instructions in readme.pls EXACTLY. When I plug the new chip
into the Picstart Plus and apply power, sometimes the power light and Active
light come on and remain lit other times the lights come on and fade out
simultaneously. In either case MPLAB can't find the Picstart Plus. I can
plug in the old chip and it works.

When I programmed the chip the following settings were used:
file - PSF12000.HEX
Device - PIC17C44
Oscillator - EC
Watchdog Timer - x1
Processor Mode - Microprocessor

The device verifies OK! What have I done wrong? Next time I think I'll buy
the windowed version.

- -Mark

1997\04\11@114909 by myke predko

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Mark,

Most likely you tried to set the configuration fuses to what *you* thought
was correct.  The required values don't make a lot of sense.

Try it again, but this time don't touch the configuration file information -
let that get picked up out of the .HEX file.

Good Luck!

myke
{Quote hidden}

"Some people say that foreign cars handle best, while others say domestic.
For my money, nothing handles as well as a rental car." - P.J. O'Rourke

1997\04\14@123357 by myke predko

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face
Mark replied to the note below to me and I think wanted everybody on the
list to see it.

Mark, the only comment I can make on this is, you should see the
Configuration Fuses change from the default values after you load in the
.hex file.

If you don't see this, then you have a problem with how you're loading the
file.
Good luck!

myke
{Quote hidden}

"Some people say that foreign cars handle best, while others say domestic.
For my money, nothing handles as well as a rental car." - P.J. O'Rourke

1997\04\16@091323 by Mark Jurras

flavicon
face
That was the problem Myke. When I said I followed the directions exactly
Microchip assumed that I knew what I was doing. I was viewing the hex file
instead of loading it. DUH! I should have realized that since that is the
way the emulator memory is loaded. Once I realized that everything worked
fine. luckily the configuration fuses and previously programmed with 1's
were the 0's should have been so I could reuse the OTP part I previously
tried.

Thanks for the help!

- -Mark

>>>> From:    myke predko <EraseMEmykespamBeGonespamKILLspamPASSPORT.CA>

Mark, the only comment I can make on this is, you should see the
Configuration Fuses change from the default values after you load in the
.hex file.

If you don't see this, then you have a problem with how you're loading the
file.
Good luck!

'The Arts need your support now! and picstart plus '
1997\04\21@230338 by Jeff Otterson/N1KDO

picon face
At 09:02 PM 4/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At 10:56 PM 4/21/97 GMT, you wrote:
>><major snip>
>>...federal funding for the National Endowment for the Arts may be cut and
>possibly eliminated.

Yes the people who brought you the Mapplethorpe buggery photos are begging
for more money for more of their tasteful "art".

On a more serious note, lately, my PIcStart Plus (v1.20) has been getting
wierd and losing communications, particularly if I verify more than a
handful of chips.  Anybody else see this or have any ideas to fix it?

Jeff



Jeff Otterson
-------------
RemoveMEottersonspamBeGonespamspammindspring.com
Maker and user of tools
PGP key available at http://www.mindspring.com/~otterson/pgp.htm

1997\04\22@003227 by tjaart

flavicon
face
Jeff Otterson/N1KDO wrote:
>
> At 09:02 PM 4/21/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >At 10:56 PM 4/21/97 GMT, you wrote:
> >><major snip>
> >>...federal funding for the National Endowment for the Arts may be cut and
> >possibly eliminated.
>
> Yes the people who brought you the Mapplethorpe buggery photos are begging
> for more money for more of their tasteful "art".
>
> On a more serious note, lately, my PIcStart Plus (v1.20) has been getting
> wierd and losing communications, particularly if I verify more than a
> handful of chips.  Anybody else see this or have any ideas to fix it?

Perhaps it's doing a 'personal interpretation' of the data?

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
@spam@tjaartspamspamwasp.co.za
_____________________________________________________________
| Another sun-deprived R&D Engineer slaving away in a dungeon |
|             WASP International  http://wasp.co.za           |
|             GSM and GPS value-added applications            |
|  Voice : +27-(0)11-622-8686   |   Fax : +27-(0)11-622-8973  |
|_____________________________________________________________|


'FW: PicStart Plus'
1997\05\13@161747 by Paykar Chamani
flavicon
face
Hi Michael,

I have attentend the MicroChip seminar in CA just week ago. It was little bit boring. There were a lot  people not familiar in all with the subject, some were sleeping, others were just escaping their works. But If you are seriously interested  by  MicroChip products it is good idea to attend it. Overall it was a good experience for me, also I bought a Picstat plus for only $ 149 (US). Right now I am just getting started, so it is too early to make any comments.
{Original Message removed}

1997\05\13@203443 by .

flavicon
face
Hi, you may want to take a look at http://www.dontronics.com or MY Link to
Ben Wirz at http://ic.mankato.mn.us/~douglas for Simmstrip @ info.<a pic
16Cxx system>

hope this helps, i'm a newbie to the pic's too.

TakeThisOuTdouglasKILLspamspam@spam@ic.mankato.mn.us
http://ic.mankato.mn.us
http://www.internet-connections.net


'1x Discount picstart plus in Oz.'
1997\06\11@004856 by Jim Robertson
flavicon
face
I have an unwanted discount voucher for a picstart plus (A$195) from the
recent Australian microchip seminar. Shame to see it go to waste. Anyone in
Australia looking to buy a picstart plus before June 15th? It's your's for
the asking.

Be quick, not much time left!

Jim


'(Fwd) PICSTART 16B1 schematic'
1997\07\11@131251 by Andrew Warren
face
flavicon
face
I was asked to forward the following request to the PICLIST:

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

From:          .....itibm3vzRemoveMEspamibmmail.com
Date:          Fri, 11 Jul 1997 05:14:40 EDT
To:            KILLspamfastfwdspamTakeThisOuTix.netcom.com
Subject:       PICSTART 16B1 schematic

Andrew,
I'm looking for PICSTART 16B1 schematic.
Could you help me in this effort ?
Could youplease route this e-mail to piclist ? I'm unsubscribed now
because I'm not able to read all the bunch of mail that the list
produces. TIA. Ciao.

C.Rachiele IW0DZG
75805312 at ITHVM06/EHONE
ITIBM3VZ(a)IBMMAIL
C_RACHIELE(a)VNET.IBM.COM

------- End of Forwarded Message ------

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - TakeThisOuTfastfwdspamspam_OUTix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'Using the TDE Emulator and PICStart'
1997\07\13@181255 by wft

face
flavicon
face
I am using the development package from TDE (formerly a parallax
product)  I am using the standard assembler provided by TDE.  I would
like to use the output of the assembler to load a PICSTART-16C
programmer (v1.3) and program a PIC 16C74A.  The emulator works fine
(sort of, as it has comm errors from time to time)

>From what I can ascertain, the TDE assembler outputs .obj files and the
PICSTART is looking for .hex files.  Is there any way to achieve
compatibility?

Gus Calabrese
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WFT Electronics    RemoveMEwftspamspamSTOPspamfrii.com   http://www.frii.com/~wft
Gus Calabrese      303 321-1119......voicemail
Lola Montes        1799 Uinta Street   Denver, CO 80220
EMERGENCY:   791 High Street     Estes Park, CO  80517
if no success with .....wftEraseMEspamfrii.com, try .... spamBeGonewftspamRemoveMEbigfoot.com

1997\07\13@194538 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
Gus Calabrese <.....wftEraseMEspamfrii.com> wrote:

> From what I can ascertain, the TDE assembler outputs .obj files
> and the PICSTART is looking for .hex files.  Is there any way to
> achieve compatibility?

   Uh, yeah, Gus... Just rename the ".obj" files to ".hex".

   I don't know whether the TDE assembler embeds configuration info
   in the .obj files.  If it does, you may have to clean up the file
   by deleting the line or two that contains the configuration... If
   those lines exist, they'll probably be at the end of the file;
   you'll recognize them by their out-of-range addresses.

   -Andy

=== Andrew Warren - spamfastfwdspam_OUTspam@spam@ix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'Aargh!!! Picstart 16C programmer stopped working!'
1997\07\14@033434 by wterreb

flavicon
face
It so annoying.  Just when I really needed my Picstart 16C programmer
urgently for a project I'm working on, it just stopped working.  I
didn't do anything out of the ordinary with it.  The last time I used
it, it was still fine, but when I tried to use it over the weekend it
just would not work anymore.

When I click on "Enable Programmer" in MPLAB, it tells me that the
device on my com port is not a Picstart16C.  I already verified that
the problem does not lie with my setup, comport, cable.  I even
borrowed a friend's Picstart16C and plugged into my computer to make
sure that that one works and my programmer is definetely broken.

I suppose I can return the programmed to Microchip to be fixed, but
that would take a long time and I desperately need to use it right
away.  I would much rather fix it myself.    Is this a standard
problem with the Picstart 16C programmers or am I the only person on
this list who have experienced this problem?   Do anyone know offhand
what the problem is so I can perhaps fix it myself?

Rgds
Werner
--
Werner Terreblanche     http://www.aztec.co.za/users/werner
spamwterreb@spam@spamSTOPspamplessey.co.za (work)  OR  spamBeGonewernerspamBeGonespam@spam@aztec.co.za  (home)
Plessey SA, PO Box 30451,Tokai 7966, Cape Town, South Africa
or at home : Suite 251, PostNet X5061, Stellenbosch, 7599
Tel +27 21 7102251  Fax +27 21 7102886  Home +27 21 8872196
------------------------------------------------------------

'Using the TDE Emulator and PICStart'
1997\07\14@165157 by wft

face
flavicon
face
Andrew Warren wrote:
>
> Gus Calabrese <RemoveMEwftRemoveMEspamRemoveMEfrii.com> wrote:
>
> > From what I can ascertain, the TDE assembler outputs .obj files
> > and the PICSTART is looking for .hex files.  Is there any way to
> > achieve compatibility?
>
>     Uh, yeah, Gus... Just rename the ".obj" files to ".hex".
>
>     I don't know whether the TDE assembler embeds configuration info
>     in the .obj files.  If it does, you may have to clean up the file
>     by deleting the line or two that contains the configuration... If
>     those lines exist, they'll probably be at the end of the file;
>     you'll recognize them by their out-of-range addresses.
>
>     -Andy

I did have to delete some configuration data.  I discovered that the
starting addresses in the .obj file were twice as big as I expected.
This was because the addresses in the .obj file referred to byte
positions while the assembler assigned addresses on the basis of 14 bit
words.

Thanks for the help

Gus
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WFT Electronics    wftKILLspamspamspamfrii.com   http://www.frii.com/~wft
Gus Calabrese      303 321-1119......voicemail
Lola Montes        1799 Uinta Street   Denver, CO 80220
EMERGENCY:   791 High Street     Estes Park, CO  80517
if no success with spam_OUTwft@spam@spamfrii.com, try .... TakeThisOuTwftspam_OUTspambigfoot.com


'Programming PIC16C924 with PICStart +'
1997\09\06@153402 by Guy Farebrother
flavicon
face
Could anybody please tell me the best (?) way to program a PIC16C924..CL
using the PICStart + programmer. I have read the programming specs
(DS30228F) on the CD-ROM, but this doesn't help.
I am aware that MicroChip sells an adapter for this however the cost from
FAI is $180.00 and I assume that I should be able to make a cable (adapter
board) that will go from several of the programmer pins to a 5 pin
in-circuit serial programming connection as shown in section 14.11 of the
data book.

Is this a realistic expectation?
If I can make a cable to use the PICStart + what pins should go to what
pins?

Should I make an adapter board with a PLCC socket on 1 side and a 40 (?)
pin DIP socket (pins) on the other side?
If I can make an adapter board to use the PICStart + what pins should go to
what pins?

Should I buy / make a different programmer?
Will a different programmer work from within MPLAB?

Thank you very much for any assistance.

Guy Farebrother, VE6GWF

'MPASM and Picstart Plus Problems'
1997\09\12@120613 by Dave Kingma

flavicon
face
Hello,

I am using the latest MPLAB 3.22.02 that I obtained off the Microchip
website. I am also using the Picstart Plus Development Programmer, Part
#10-00157. When I try and configure the programmer port within MPLAB,
I get an error message saying "Command [8D] not echoed properly [AB]."
Thus, I'm not able to talk to the programmer.  What is happening here?
I am running MPLAB on a Pentium Pro 200 with Windows NT 4.0 Workstation.
I have also tried it on a 486DX2-66 running Windows 95 with similar results
(although it did not report this message, it just couldn't find the
programmer).  Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Dave

1997\09\12@125231 by Thomas Magin

flavicon
face
At 11:50 12.09.1997 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I am using the latest MPLAB 3.22.02 that I obtained off the Microchip
>website. I am also using the Picstart Plus Development Programmer, Part
>#10-00157. When I try and configure the programmer port within MPLAB,
>I get an error message saying "Command [8D] not echoed properly [AB]."
>Thus, I'm not able to talk to the programmer.  What is happening here?
>I am running MPLAB on a Pentium Pro 200 with Windows NT 4.0 Workstation.

AFAIK MPLAB can not operate the Programmer if you are working under NT.
Thats an info from micrchip Germany. We asked because we figured out the
same problem.

Thomas
=8-)

**********************************************************
* Thomas Magin                  FON:   ++49-761-4543-489 *
* marquette-Hellige GmbH        FAX:                -507 *
* Emergency Systems             email: KILLspammagin.....spamTakeThisOuThellige.de  *
* Munzinger Str. 3                                       *
* D-79111 Freiburg / Germany                             *
**********************************************************

1997\09\12@144735 by Dave Kingma

flavicon
face
At 06:39 PM 9/12/97 +0200, you wrote:
>AFAIK MPLAB can not operate the Programmer if you are working under NT.
>Thats an info from micrchip Germany. We asked because we figured out the
>same problem.

Thanks for the info Thomas!  I was on the phone with a Microchip distributor
FAE when I received your timely info.  A couple of hours later, the Microchip
technical support guy called me to let me know this as well.  Thanks again
for saving quite a few hours today!

Dave

1997\09\12@180316 by Matt Bonner

flavicon
face
Dave Kingma wrote:
> I am using the latest MPLAB 3.22.02 that I obtained off the Microchip
> website. I am also using the Picstart Plus Development Programmer, Part
> #10-00157. When I try and configure the programmer port within MPLAB,
> I get an error message saying "Command [8D] not echoed properly [AB]."
> Thus, I'm not able to talk to the programmer.  What is happening here?
> I am running MPLAB on a Pentium Pro 200 with Windows NT 4.0 Workstation.
> I have also tried it on a 486DX2-66 running Windows 95 with similar results
> (although it did not report this message, it just couldn't find the
> programmer).  Any suggestions?
I was just about to put out a similar question - maybe our problems are
related.  I've just added a secondary controller to my product - it's a
16c61 so I've had to migrate from my DOS PicStart to the Windows-based
PicStart Plus.  My test software works out of DOS so I have to move back
and forth between Win95 windows.  The problem: after I communicate over
COM1 with my project and then flip the comm port switch box, MPLAB can't
even find COM1 - my only recourse is to reboot my PC.  I've got MPLAB
v3.22.  I'm going to try the firmware upgrade for the PicStart Plus, but
I doubt that this will help since the problem seems to be a MPLAB and
Win95 issue.
--Matt

1997\09\12@180720 by Matt Bonner

flavicon
face
Dave Kingma wrote:
>
> At 06:39 PM 9/12/97 +0200, you wrote:
> >AFAIK MPLAB can not operate the Programmer if you are working under NT.
> >Thats an info from micrchip Germany. We asked because we figured out the
> >same problem.
>
> Thanks for the info Thomas!  I was on the phone with a Microchip distributor
> FAE when I received your timely info.  A couple of hours later, the Microchip
> technical support guy called me to let me know this as well.  Thanks again
> for saving quite a few hours today!
>
Did you figure out your other problem that was related to Windows95?
--Matt

1997\09\12@200054 by dporter

flavicon
face
We had a similar problem with our product software that uses an old
DOS-based APL interpreter.  A client solved it for us!  He was able to go
into settings and instead of taking the "default" address, he specified the
actual hardware address of the comm port.  Everything worked normally,
except that WinNT wouldn't let other processes have the port.

I admit it sounds wierd, but it was that simple.  Maybe it will work for
MPLAB too.

Good luck


----------
{Quote hidden}

1997\09\12@222718 by Dave Kingma

flavicon
face
At 04:03 PM 9/12/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Did you figure out your other problem that was related to Windows95?

Well, mysteriously when I went back to that machine where the program
did not work before and tried it again, it worked!  The only thing that
was different was that I was not logged onto our Novell network the
second time.  I didn't have time to see if that was what caused it.
Thanks to this list, I programmed the part and stayed on schedule today!
Thanks!!

Dave

1997\09\12@234406 by Mark Hellman

picon face
Here's some tips on using DOS based COM access with Windows.

1> When a DOS program needs a COM port, Windows gives ALL COM hardware to
the DOS session, UNLESS a Windows program already has a port OPEN. In that
case, DOS looses and gets none.

2> Once the COM hardware is allocated, it is not returned until either the
DOS session exits (not just the program!) if it has the hardware, or the
Windows program gives up the hardware.

3> Some Windows programs don't keep the port open all the time but keep a
handle on the port. They use the old handle to reopen the port. If the COM
ports have been given to DOS in the mean time, the handle is invalid. (I
think this is what happens)

4> Only one DOS session can have the hardware.

5> There may be a noticeable delay between freeing the hardware and it
becoming available again.

My work around: I only have one COM app open at any given time, it's a
pain, but it works for me. I set up the DOS apps on desktop shortcuts with
the session set to exit on program exit. I also wait a few secs between
apps.

Mark

{Original Message removed}

1997\09\14@021858 by arthur

flavicon
face
Dave Kingma wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I am using the latest MPLAB 3.22.02 that I obtained off the Microchip
> website. I am also using the Picstart Plus Development Programmer, Part
> #10-00157. When I try and configure the programmer port within MPLAB,
> I get an error message saying "Command [8D] not echoed properly [AB]."
> Thus, I'm not able to talk to the programmer.  What is happening here?
> I am running MPLAB on a Pentium Pro 200 with Windows NT 4.0 Workstation.

I have MPLAB 3.09.10 running on my NT 4.0 workstation with a PICStart
Plus. No later versions seem to run. I believe it even worked with my
old PICStart firmware, V1.01, and it works fine with the V1.20 firmware
upgrade. I got 3.09.10 from the 1996 Microchip CD. Might be worth a try,
even though it lacks the latest bells and whistles(and new chip
support).

Maybe Microchip could try going back to the comm routines used on 3.09
for a beta of 3.23!

Blessings!
--
Arthur Doerksen, P.Eng.
A.D.Comtronics & Engineering - 604-533-4933
20783 - 51 B Avenue, Langley, BC Canada  V3A 7T5
http://www.adcomtronics.com

"Amazing grace, how sweet the sound..."

1997\09\14@071706 by paulb

flavicon
face
Dave Kingma wrote:

> At 04:03 PM 9/12/97 -0600, you wrote:
> >Did you figure out your other problem that was related to Windows95?

> Well, mysteriously when I went back to that machine where the program
> did not work before and tried it again, it worked!  The only thing
> that was different was that I was not logged onto our Novell network
> the second time.  I didn't have time to see if that was what caused
> it. Thanks to this list, I programmed the part and stayed on schedule
> today! Thanks!!

> Dave

 Windoze95 makes the assumption that the network card is set to IRQ3,
notwithstanding the fact that this is reserved for COM2.

 Totally Insane, but true!  To what IRQ have you jumpered your network
card?

 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1997\09\14@110811 by arthur

flavicon
face
Dave Kingma wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I am using the latest MPLAB 3.22.02 that I obtained off the Microchip
> website. I am also using the Picstart Plus Development Programmer, Part
> #10-00157. When I try and configure the programmer port within MPLAB,
> I get an error message saying "Command [8D] not echoed properly [AB]."
> Thus, I'm not able to talk to the programmer.  What is happening here?
> I am running MPLAB on a Pentium Pro 200 with Windows NT 4.0 Workstation.
> I have also tried it on a 486DX2-66 running Windows 95 with similar results
> (although it did not report this message, it just couldn't find the
> programmer).  Any suggestions?

I have MPLAB 3.09.10 running on my NT 4.0 workstation with a PICStart
Plus. No later versions seem to run. I believe it even worked with my
old PICStart firmware, V1.01, and it works fine with the V1.20 firmware
upgrade. I got 3.09.10 from the 1996 Microchip CD. Might be worth a try,
even though it lacks the latest bells and whistles(and new chip
support).

Maybe Microchip could try going back to the comm routines used on 3.09
for a beta of 3.23!

Blessings!
--
Arthur Doerksen, P.Eng.
A.D.Comtronics & Engineering - 604-533-4933
20783 - 51 B Avenue, Langley, BC Canada  V3A 7T5
http://www.adcomtronics.com

"Amazing grace, how sweet the sound..."

'Re[2]: Picstart+ Frimware update?'
1997\09\15@135704 by markw

flavicon
face
Try Digikey for the chips, they'll sell them in qty 1, although at a
slighly higher price.

Cul,
Mark Wolfe

'Programming PIC16C924 with PICStart +'
1997\09\23@213623 by Guy Farebrother

flavicon
face
Could anybody please tell me the best (?) way to program a PIC16C924..CL
using the PICStart + programmer. I have read the programming specs
(DS30228F) on the CD-ROM, but this doesn't help.
I am aware that MicroChip sells an adapter for this however the cost from
FAI is $180.00 and I assume that I should be able to make a cable (adapter
board) that will go from several of the programmer pins to a 5 pin
in-circuit serial programming connection as shown in section 14.11 of the
data book.

Is this a realistic expectation?
If I can make a cable to use the PICStart + what pins should go to what
pins?

Should I make an adapter board with a PLCC socket on 1 side and a 40 (?)
pin DIP socket (pins) on the other side?
If I can make an adapter board to use the PICStart + what pins should go to
what pins?

Should I buy / make a different programmer?
Will a different programmer work from within MPLAB?

Thank you very much for any assistance.

Another question I have is regarding the PICList. When I send a message to
it should I get a copy of my message sent to me as regular mail since I
subscribe to the PICList. I'm not asking if the list will confirm receipt,
but rather if it will filter my messages from me.

Guy Farebrother, VE6GWF


'PIC Development Tool: PICSTART-16B'
1997\10\26@084730 by paulb
flavicon
face
Well now, this IS a very basic question to propose, but I REALLY can't
seem to find a direct answer on the Microchip site.

 I have been saying, "Yeah, I have a PICSTART and I really must get
around to getting it out and getting it going", so I did so, and lo-and-
behold, it's a 16B.  Not a Plus, not even a 16B1.  Seems it was built on
July 6, 1993 and I purchased it through the local agent in January 1994.
Well, how embarrasing(, No!, how SAD)!  (Firmware version 1.4)

 So, what do I do?  Now, of course I can use the software in the still-
sealed pouch and I am sure it will work programming the 16C71/JWs, the
16C84s and lots of other things, and can even bootstrap a chip for later
firmware (if I retro-fit a 40-pin socket?).  But can I use it with MPLAB
(which gets narky and tells you you need a later version of firmware,
does it not)?

 Having looked through the brochures on the website regarding the 16B1
and the 16C (which if I am not wrong, is a stripped-down version with a
smaller ZIF socket, is it not?), I can see poor-resolution pictures of
these but not the Picstart Plus.  Looking closely, I see my 16B has a
5.06MHz crystal and the "Plus" has, I understand, a 25MHz as well as at
least 2 LEDs, so I gather they have little or nothing in common.

 I somehow gained the impression that the '84 (or was it just the '71?)
could be programmed EITHER by serial or (secret) parallel protocol, and
was, or am inclined to wonder what would then happen if the 16B
attempted to do some such to a 16F84 beleiving it to be a 16C84?  In any
event, I would like to know what the ultimate capabilities/ limitations
of the 16B are, how I should best enhance it (presumably, to a 16B1?),
whether I can obtain a circuit of it and a "Plus" for comparison/
hacking and so on.

 Yes, I have heard that the "Plus" is cheaper now than I paid for the
16B ... but our currency took a nasty dive last week too!  Well, the 16B
really does all I want to do for starters so I really must go plug it
in, mustn't I?  (Oh yes, 16B came without cable or "wall-wart"!)

 Cheers,
       Paul B.


'16C9XX Picstart Plus 68PLCC adapter'
1997\11\12@004515 by Eric Earnst
flavicon
face
Hi all,
I'm looking into a project where I would like to use a 16C923.  I'm
trying to find out information on Microchip's 68PLCC adapter to see if I
can build my own.  I've located a $6 68PLCC ZIF socket at a local
surplus outlet so I think I just need the pin mapping between the PLCC
socket and the DIP socket on the Picstart Plus.  Anybody out there have
one that they are willing to map for me?

Thanks,
Eric

1997\11\12@111235 by Pioneer Microsystems

flavicon
face
Eric..  I wanted to do this too, some time ago, and wound up buying the
adapter.  It serves the C92X and 17Cxxx parts.  I count about 30 traces from
the header (it has a 40 pin dip ribbon header hanging off of it) to the ZIF
socket.  The board is two sided and there are vias.  I would literally have
to unsolder the ZIF and header and reverse the traces.  It may (likely)
damage the plate throughs in the process.  I regret that it is a bit too
much work.  Sorry, bite the bullet and order.

Chris Eddy
Pioneer Microsystems, Inc.

Eric Earnst wrote:

> Hi all,
> I'm looking into a project where I would like to use a 16C923.  I'm
> trying to find out information on Microchip's 68PLCC adapter to see if I
> can build my own.  I've located a $6 68PLCC ZIF socket at a local
> surplus outlet so I think I just need the pin mapping between the PLCC
> socket and the DIP socket on the Picstart Plus.  Anybody out there have
> one that they are willing to map for me?
>
> Thanks,
> Eric

1997\11\12@113843 by Rick Dickinson

flavicon
face
At 10:59 AM 11/12/97 -0500, Pioneer Microsystems wrote:
{Quote hidden}

You might be able to figure it out, however, by paying a visit to the Microchip
web site.  They have programming instructions for all of the PIC chips there,
and datasheets on each variety of chip will allow you to map the pinouts from
the DIPs to the corresponding PLCCs.

Worth a shot, in any case....

- Rick
---
You can help design a Serial Sonar Unit for model robots!
 Vist http://www.notesguy.com/notesguy for details, or
  send mail to Rick Dickinson at spam_OUTrtdRemoveMEspam.....notesguy.com

1997\11\13@111145 by Josef Hanzal

flavicon
face
Hi Eric,

if you are concerned with the 16C9XX only, then I believe you have to hookup
just Vdd, Vss, MCLR, RB7 and RB6 pins, since this part uses serial
programing. The other traces are most likely for the 17CXX family.

Regards,

Josef

'New driver for the PICstart +'
1997\11\27@001027 by tjaart

flavicon
face
A few listers had problems with the PICstart +. There is a new
driver available at
www.microchip.com/cgi-win/DownLoad.exe?/download/devtools/docs/mpplus.dll
:1

I've just tried it, and MPLAB seems to see the programmer every
time now.

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
spamtjaartKILLspamspamKILLspamwasp.co.za
_____________________________________________________________
| WASP International http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html |
|       R&D Engineer : GSM peripheral services development    |
|   Vehicle tracking | Telemetry systems | GSM data transfer  |
|    Voice : +27-(0)11-622-8686 | Fax : +27-(0)11-622-8973    |
|              WGS-84 : 26010.52'S 28006.19'E                 |
|_____________________________________________________________|

1997\11\27@031922 by Tam Ho Bong

flavicon
face
I have tried the driver, it seems to be more stable than the old one, but
the serial communication still exists, especially when I verify the device
and then read it again.  Anyone have the same experience?

Best Regards,
Bong


> {Original Message removed}

'new firmware for PICSTART 16B1?'
1997\11\29@051421 by Thomas Adams

picon face
I have a PICSTART 16B1 and found some references about a firmware on
DejaNews with which you could program a lot of additional devices.
Unfortunately the supplier doesn't support the 16B1 anymore and now I
wonder where else I could get the firmware?


'new firmware for PICSTART 16B1?'
1997\12\01@025722 by Steve Lang
flavicon
face
Hi.

I have the Phoenix Firmware for the PicStart. I think mine was a 16B1.

I downloaded the Beta a long time ago, and got a friend to write a 17C42 or some such device with the code.

Seems to work very well for me. I understand that they are selling a non-beta version now. It can program chips that don't fit in the 16B1' socket, but you have to make up an adapter for that.

>From memory, I got mine from Newfound Electronics, try

http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~newfound/

Or, you might be able to try http://www.dontronics.com

I understand that Don McKenzie may have access to these as well....But he's probably Emailed you by now.

Cheers -


-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Adams <spamtadamsspam_OUTspamGMX.NET>
To: STOPspamPICLISTspam_OUTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU <spam_OUTPICLISTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Sunday, 30 November 1997 08:31
Subject: new firmware for PICSTART 16B1?


>I have a PICSTART 16B1 and found some references about a firmware on
>DejaNews with which you could program a lot of additional devices.
>Unfortunately the supplier doesn't support the 16B1 anymore and now I
>wonder where else I could get the firmware?
>

1997\12\01@143419 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Steve Lang wrote:
> I have the Phoenix Firmware for the PicStart. I think mine was a 16B1.
> I downloaded the Beta a long time ago, and got a friend to write a
> 17C42 or some such device with the code.
>
> Seems to work very well for me. I understand that they are selling a
> non-beta version now. It can program chips that don't fit in the 16B1'
> socket, but you have to make up an adapter for that.
>
> >From memory, I got mine from Newfound Electronics, try
> http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~newfound/
> Or, you might be able to try http://www.dontronics.com
> I understand that Don McKenzie may have access to these as well....But
> he's probably Emailed you by now.

Thanks Steve and sorry guys, I have been away for a few days and signed
off the list.

If you have a look at:
http://www.dontronics.com/phoenix.html
You will see the following:
===========================
Due to illness, Jim Robertson of Newfound Electronics is no longer able
to offer the PicStart firmware file and chip upgrades. He has found the
amount of ongoing support required has been very taxing on his health
and regrets pulling the plug on what was to be a brave new venture for
him.
===========================

I posted this many months ago now. It's a situation that is beyond my
control and of course Jim's too.

In recent private conversations with Jim, the amount of work required to
keep up with the new parts introduced by MicroChip was becoming beyond
his resources.
Many users also wanted a system running under W95 and NT. Jim wasn't
able to provide that support.

He is supporting current sales of his Newfound PP1 and Warp-3
programmers, however there is an end in sight to these units. PP1 will
be finished shortly, and Warp-3 will go on for a little while.

Jim has gone well on a world wide scale with these units, but you can't
continue with health problems. I'm not sure what Jim's future plans are
at this stage.

Don McKenzie  EraseMEdonspamKILLspamdontronics.com   http://www.dontronics.com

DonTronics Logo Design Contest http://www.dontronics.com/logo.html
Basic Stamp Windows 95 Front End Now Available.
PicNPoke "Pacman like" Multimedia Simulator for the PIC16x84.
SimmStick(tm) Atmel & PIC proto PCB's. 30 pin Simm Module Format.
For more details, send a blank message to EraseMEinfoRemoveMEspamdontronics.com
or .....simstickspamspam_OUTdontronics.com or @spam@basicsEraseMEspamspamdontronics.com

1997\12\01@165207 by Thomas Adams

picon face
> I downloaded the Beta a long time ago, and got a friend to write a 17C42 or
> some such device with the code.

Do you still possess the downloaded file or could make a copy of your 17?

> From memory, I got mine from Newfound Electronics, try

They don't support the PICSTART any more, they rather sell their own
programmers.

> I understand that Don McKenzie may have access to these as well....But he's
> probably Emailed you by now.

No, I emailed him before asking in this list but didn't get a positive
reply.

cheers
Thomas

1997\12\04@060722 by Paul BRITTON

flavicon
face
>I have a PICSTART 16B1 and found some references about a firmware on
>DejaNews with which you could program a lot of additional devices.
>Unfortunately the supplier doesn't support the 16B1 anymore and now I
>wonder where else I could get the firmware?

I have also been through this loop, looking for the Phoenix upgrade, but
that was before I found the Piclist, and its global pool of enthusiasm(!).

Is there anyone on the list who has a version of Pheonix that they could
make available for others to download, maybe we could find the last
version Jim Robertson created and put it on a web page or FTP site.

Ideally, if Jim is unable to continue the work, perhaps someone could
persuade him to release his source code as PD and someone else could
'pic up the baton' (sorry couldn't resist the pun), and continue
development, I wouldn't mind trying, but I'm sure there are others much
better qualified/experience than myself, who would relish the challenge,
and earn themselves some kudos, and undying gratitude of us lowly,
deprived and abandoned(by Mchip) 16B1 owners!


       What do you think?......Paul

1997\12\04@064658 by wkysag

picon face
On  4 Dec 97 at 11:04, Paul BRITTON wrote:

...
> Is there anyone on the list who has a version of Pheonix that they
> could make available for others to download, maybe we could find the
> last version Jim Robertson created and put it on a web page or FTP
> site.

that would clearly be illegal.

Wolfgang

--

1997\12\04@072527 by Paul BRITTON

flavicon
face
On 4 Dec 97 at 11:35, Wolfgang Kynast wrote:

>
>On  4 Dec 97 at 11:04, Paul BRITTON wrote:
>
>...
>> Is there anyone on the list who has a version of Pheonix that they
>> could make available for others to download, maybe we could find the
>> last version Jim Robertson created and put it on a web page or FTP
>> site.
>
>that would clearly be illegal.
>
>Wolfgang
>
>--

I wasn't suggesting doing anything illegal. I thought the Phoenix upgrade
was freely downloadable from Jim's website when it used to be
available..... and I'd hardly suggest contacting the owner of the code if
I was going to rip him off, would I?

I happen to think that what Jim did was a brilliant achievement, given
that Microchip were v. unforthcoming about interface protocols for the
16B1, and I think it would be a shame for that effort to be unused in
future, I was trying to see if someone was willing to carry on Jim's good
work. (With his blessing, of course)

I don't know how many 16B1's were sold globally, but I have (2)! and would
like to prolong there usefulness a bit!

                               Regards
                               Paul

1997\12\04@132135 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Paul BRITTON wrote:

> I happen to think that what Jim did was a brilliant achievement, given
> that Microchip were v. unforthcoming about interface protocols for the
> 16B1, and I think it would be a shame for that effort to be unused in
> future, I was trying to see if someone was willing to carry on Jim's
> good work. (With his blessing, of course)
> I don't know how many 16B1's were sold globally, but I have (2)! and
> would like to prolong there usefulness a bit!

Jim hasn't been tuned to the piclist for months, but I'll make sure he
gets
all messages in this thread. I know he has been wondering where to head
with this. These messages may help him decide.

Don McKenzie  donTakeThisOuTspamKILLspamdontronics.com   http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon: Embedded Work-Ware
http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
DonTronics Logo Design Contest http://www.dontronics.com/logo.html
For more details, send a blank message to RemoveMEinfoTakeThisOuTspamdontronics.com
or @spam@simstickSTOPspamspamdontronics.com or TakeThisOuTbasicsTakeThisOuTspamRemoveMEdontronics.com

'Windows NT4 and PICStart Plus?'
1997\12\05@002417 by CCSystems

picon face
Any ideas how to get this combo working or should I just forget it?  I have
the latest firmware and MPLAB 3.31 with the updated driver.  I manually set
up the serial port(s) like the readme says.  I consistently get "Command
(8D) not echoed properly (AB)" and then the program hangs requiring me to
end the task.

Andrew Gerald
Custom Communications Systems

***

This e-mail address is a 'facsimile receiver' as defined
by Title 47 USC. Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail
to this address is a violation of US Federal Law.

1997\12\05@134206 by Bob Shaver

flavicon
face
part 0 690 bytes
----------
From:   CCSystems
Sent:   Thursday, December 04, 1997 11:04 PM
To:     spam_OUTPICLISTspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject:        Windows NT4 and PICStart Plus?

Any ideas how to get this combo working or should I just forget it?  I have
the latest firmware and MPLAB 3.31 with the updated driver.  I manually set
up the serial port(s) like the readme says.  I consistently get "Command
(8D) not echoed properly (AB)" and then the program hangs requiring me to
end the task.

Andrew Gerald
Custom Communications Systems

***

This e-mail address is a 'facsimile receiver' as defined
by Title 47 USC. Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail
to this address is a violation of US Federal Law.

'new firmware for PICSTART 16B1?'
1997\12\07@180730 by Joost Kooij

flavicon
face
On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Don McKenzie wrote:

> Paul BRITTON wrote:
>
> > I happen to think that what Jim did was a brilliant achievement, given
> > that Microchip were v. unforthcoming about interface protocols for the
> > 16B1, and I think it would be a shame for that effort to be unused in
> > future, I was trying to see if someone was willing to carry on Jim's
> > good work. (With his blessing, of course)
> > I don't know how many 16B1's were sold globally, but I have (2)! and
> > would like to prolong there usefulness a bit!
>
> Jim hasn't been tuned to the piclist for months, but I'll make sure he
> gets
> all messages in this thread. I know he has been wondering where to head
> with this. These messages may help him decide.

I have wanted to purchase a Phoenix upgrade, but I was unfortunately too
late.

Please let Jim know that I (and probably many others) would appreciate it
highly if his Phoenix upgrade were made available in some way or another.

Thanks,


Joost

1997\12\07@193821 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Joost Kooij wrote:

> On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Don McKenzie wrote:
>
> > Paul BRITTON wrote:
> >
> > > I happen to think that what Jim did was a brilliant achievement, given
> > > that Microchip were v. unforthcoming about interface protocols for the
> > > 16B1, and I think it would be a shame for that effort to be unused in

> I have wanted to purchase a Phoenix upgrade, but I was unfortunately too
> late.
>
> Please let Jim know that I (and probably many others) would appreciate it
> highly if his Phoenix upgrade were made available in some way or another.
>
> Thanks,
> Joost

Yes Joost, I have passed this and all other messages on, as well as some
possible suggestions that may eventuate.

Don McKenzie  don.....spam@spam@dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
DonTronics Logo Design Contest http://www.dontronics.com/logo.html
For more details, send a blank message to spamBeGoneinfospamspam_OUTdontronics.com
or EraseMEsimstick.....spamdontronics.com or spambasicsKILLspamspam@spam@dontronics.com

'frimware for picstart'
1997\12\14@163339 by Don Peat

flavicon
face
I have an older PICSTART kit (as well as a picstart plus). It seems to be
so old that it can only program the 16C54 series. It would be useful to be
able to program later micros (partic 16C73A which I use most) with the
MPS16B and MPS16C DOS drivers (these can support the later micros). There
must be a later version of PICSTART firmware to support the range of pic's
supported by MPS16B & C. Does anyone have this firmware (if it exists) or
can advise where to get it>

Thanks

Don Peat,
Saturn Telesystems Ltd,
New Zealand.
email:  donspamspamTakeThisOuTcentral.co.nz
web: http://www.saturn.webnz.co.nz

1997\12\18@125240 by Christof

flavicon
face
Hi Don

Which versions do you need? The latest Versions were the following:

PICSTART 16B1  S/W Ver 5.00   F/W Ver 2.0
PICSTART 16C    S/W Ver 1.10   F/W Ver 1.3

Pls let me know if you need them.
(By the way - you will need extra PIC's to upgrade you firmware. I can give
some tips)

Regards,
Christof

On 15 Dec 97 at 10:30, Don Peat wrote:

{Quote hidden}

:-)   Compliments of the season and best wishes for the new year.  :-)
__________________________________________________

Christof Tolken
FAE, PACE South Africa
Tel:  +27 (011) 974 1211
FAX:  +27 (011) 974 1271
Cell: 083 227 3546
TakeThisOuTctolken@spam@spam@spam@pixie.co.za
www: http://home.pix.za/ct/ct000004/
__________________________________________________

1997\12\18@171954 by Joost Kooij

flavicon
face
Hi Christof,

You would do me an immense favor by sending the firmware. Now, I only have
Firmware version 1.8. If you can spare me a couple of your tips, I would
be equally thankful.

Regards,


Joost

PS: I hope you haven't been flooded with requests such as mine :-)

{Quote hidden}

'Need help on Picstart Plus development programmer?'
1997\12\19@014922 by Alvin Tan

flavicon
face
       I just got myself a Picstart Plus development programmer.  But
evertime I tried to enable the programmer, I get an error message of "
Please verify Serial and Power Connections and reset the Programmer
[0020,01,00,88].  Am I doing something wrong?  If anyone can help, It
would be greatly appreciated.  BTW, I am running it under Win95, 32MB
RAM, on COM1.

       Thank You!

Alvin

1997\12\19@084131 by darrelj

picon face
Alvin Tan wrote:
>
>         I just got myself a Picstart Plus development programmer.  But
> evertime I tried to enable the programmer, I get an error message of "
> Please verify Serial and Power Connections and reset the Programmer
> [0020,01,00,88].  Am I doing something wrong?  If anyone can help, It
> would be greatly appreciated.  BTW, I am running it under Win95, 32MB
> RAM, on COM1.


There is an alternate PICSTART Plust driver on the Microchip web page.
This usually fixes communication problems like this.

Darrel Johansen

1997\12\19@085615 by Brian Schousek

picon face
Do you have a PIC in the ZIF socket? I know I've seen this behavior on the
Picstart Plus when I have a PIC in the socket... backwards. So try it
without a PIC.

Brian

P.S. I don't know your experience level so:
       ZIF=Zero Insertion Force. The ZIF socket is just the IC socket on
the outside of the Picstart Plus with the lever on it.
       You've used COM1 before, so you know it's working? Try it with a
mouse or something.
       Just to get real basic: The 'Power' LED is lit isn't it?

{Original Message removed}

1997\12\20@175537 by FScalini

picon face
I have the same error problem.  The alternate driver from microchip helps a
little, but i usually have to try about 10 times before the programmer is
enabled and i can program the PIC.  Keep trying over and over and see what
happens.

{Quote hidden}

1997\12\24@172826 by Jim Main

flavicon
picon face
In article <spamBeGone79c86763.349c4b0eKILLspamspamaol.com>, FScalini <FScalini@spam@spamKILLspamAOL.COM>
writes
>I have the same error problem.  The alternate driver from microchip helps a
>little, but i usually have to try about 10 times before the programmer is
>enabled and i can program the PIC.  Keep trying over and over and see what
>happens.

ditto mine - they must have had a lot of complaints if there's a design
fault - typical of Microchip to keep quiet about it! (much like the
unerasable code fuse 'feature)

Jim
--
Jim Main

1997\12\25@031849 by snsscj1

picon face
Jim Main wrote:
>
> In article <EraseME79c86763.349c4b0eRemoveMEspam@spam@aol.com>, FScalini <RemoveMEFScalinispamspamEraseMEAOL.COM>
> writes
> >I have the same error problem.  The alternate driver from microchip helps a
> >little, but i usually have to try about 10 times before the programmer is
> >enabled and i can program the PIC.  Keep trying over and over and see what
> >happens.
>
> ditto mine - they must have had a lot of complaints if there's a design
> fault - typical of Microchip to keep quiet about it! (much like the
> unerasable code fuse 'feature)
>
> Jim
> --
> Jim Main

I had problems using the PICSTART with my Windows 95 based PC.  My
internal
modem was on COM1 and my available COM port was COM2; but it wouldn't
let
me change from COM1 to COM2 in the MPLAB software (all selections but
COM1
were greyed out).

I fixed the problem by switching to my Windows 3.11 based Laptop.  It
consistently works everytime.

Steve Johnson

1997\12\25@083416 by Gene Norris

picon face
I use a 100mhz CTX labtop with Win/95 and had intermittent failures
in communicating with the Picstart Plus.  Sometimes it would take two
or three trys to establish a connection.  I downloaded and installed
the alternate driver and communication has be rock solid ever since.

I do not know what the original problem was or what is changed in
the driver, but I am happy the it now works.

FYI, Gene.

At 10:20 PM 12/24/97 +0000, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Gene Norris
@spam@GnorrisspamBeGonespamearthlink.net
E. Windsor, NJ USA

'Problems in comunications with PICSTART PLUS'
1997\12\27@162917 by MarcusD

flavicon
face
I've got a PICSTART and a PICSTART PLUS.
With the first one there were no problems comunications of the
programmer with Win95
but with picstart plus I'm not able to connect. The error message is
"Command(8D) not echoed ...(AB)". The message is the same also with Win
NT 4.0


'Installing PicStart Plus'
1998\01\05@151219 by howard e. michel jr.
flavicon
face
Dear Piclisters:

   I am in need of advice, I am tring to install last years picstart
plus on my computer at home running Win95. The problem is that MPlab
with the picstart software installed insists that the programmer in not
attached to com2. I can get it to work if I pull my modem card out
which is on com4.  The IRQ's are as follows: com1 (mouse) IRQ 4, com 2
(picstart) IRQ 9, com3 (nothing), com4 (modem) IRQ 3, also a sound card
IRQ 5, and a printer IRQ 7.  I have tried reinstalling Mplab as well as
the other devices also I have tried an I/O card so that I could
hardware configure it, I can't get it to work with the card at all.  I
would greatly appreciate any input, thank you.


                               Friendly Regards,
                               John Reasoner
                               Solid State Instruments

1998\01\06@001532 by Alvin Tan

flavicon
face
       I had a similar problem where my computer (running Win95) could
not communicate with my Picstart Plus.  But, as somebody suggested on
this list, that there is an alternate driver available at the Microchips
Website for the PicStart Plus.   Hopefully, this alternate driver
(MPPLUS.DLL) will solve your problem as it did to mine.

Alvin Tan

howard e. michel jr. wrote:

{Quote hidden}

'Installing PicStart Plus on Doze 95'
1998\01\06@165616 by XYGAX

picon face
Windoze 95 Ho Ho Ho
Plug and Pray

Try the following soulition it worked for one of the lads at work with doze 95

Move the mouse to Com 2 and set up Picstart + on Com 1 this hasworked on a
couple of mechines..

Cheers Steve.....

1998\01\06@214823 by Blad Cap

picon face
Set IRQs as follows:
4- Com1 Serial Mouse
3 - Com2 - for PicStart
5 -Com3- for modem
10-sound card
7- Printer
9- for LAN card

If have problems reassigning IRQ you may want to use the following:
-remove cards and install them one by one
-reserve IRQ in Device Mgr. -Properties. This one helps to change IRQ for
Video card if you have
PnP BIOS.
It really works fine.
Blad Cap
spam_OUTustekspamspamjuno.com

On Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:10:34 -0600 "howard e. michel jr."
<spamssispamspamspamIX.NETCOM.COM> writes:
{Quote hidden}

'PICSTART Lite vs. PICSTART Plus'
1998\01\23@235945 by William Chapman

flavicon
face
What is the difference besides whether the documentation is included or
not?

Here's my analysis, correct me if I'm wrong:

PICSTART Plus - Programmer board, printed manuals, soaftware, accessories.

PICSTART Lite 16B - Same Programmer board with only an 18pin ZIF socket,
executable software on disk, RS232 cable.

PICTSTART Lite 16C - Same programmer board with only a 40 pin ZIF socket,
executable software on disk, RS232 Cable.

The PICSTART Lite 16B is only $69 compared to the $200 for the PICSTART
Plus.  Can I still program the 12c671 and 12c672 in the PICSTART Lite if
indeed it is the same board?

---Will Chapman
  Power Brick Designs

1998\01\24@190153 by Darrel Johansen

picon face
William Chapman wrote:
>
> What is the difference besides whether the documentation is included or
> not?
>
> Here's my analysis, correct me if I'm wrong:
><snip>

    I'd like to provide this info:

    PICSTART Plus, PICSTART 16B, and PICSTART 16C are three different
    printed circuit boards.  Currently only the PICSTART Plus is being
    maintained with support for new chips by Microchip.  Only the
PICSTART
    Plus works with MPLAB, and only the PICSTART Plus supports all DIP
    PICmicro products.  Only the PICSTART Plus has a molded plastic
case,
    the others are exposed PC boards.

    On these postings some others are offering additional support for
    PICSTART 16B and 16C.  These are not connected with Microchip.  I
    don't know if they support the 12C671/672.

    The PICSTART Plus will support the 12C671/672 with the next release
of
    the firmware v1.50 (expected release in March).  The most recent
    version of software is 1.41.01 and the last firmware update was
v1.20.

    Here is the latest support list.  Note that the 16C923/924 and the
    17C756 require a special adapter.

    PIC12C508(1)    PIC12C509(1)    PIC12C508A(1)*  PIC12C509A(1)*
    PIC12CE519(1)*  PIC14000        PIC16C52        PIC16C54
    PIC16C54A       PIC16C55        PIC16C554       PIC16C556
    PIC16C558       PIC16C558A      PIC16C56        PIC16C57
    PIC16C58A       PIC16C58B       PIC16C61        PIC16C62
    PIC16C62A       PIC16C620       PIC16C621       PIC16C622
    PIC16C622A      PIC16C63        PIC16C64        PIC16C64A
    PIC16C642(1)    PIC16C65        PIC16C65A       PIC16C66
    PIC16C662(1)    PIC16C67        PIC16C71        PIC16C710
    PIC16C711       PIC16C715(1)    PIC16C72        PIC16C73
    PIC16C73A       PIC16C74        PIC16C74A       PIC16C76
    PIC16C77        PIC16F83        PIC16C84        PIC16F84
    PIC16C923       PIC16C924       PIC17C42        PIC17C42A
    PIC17C43        PIC17C44        PIC17C756

       * - New devices with this release
       All products are supported by firmware version 1.01 except as
       noted:
       (1) - Firmware version 1.20 or greater required

Check the Microchip web page for current special pricing on the PICSTART
Plus.

Darrel Johansen
spamBeGonedarrel.johansenKILLspamspamKILLspammicrochip.com

1998\01\24@192310 by Charles Laforge

picon face
So you guys ARE lurking too..   :)

Charles

>
>Darrel Johansen
>TakeThisOuTdarrel.johansenspamspammicrochip.com
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

1998\01\25@013110 by Darrel Johansen

picon face
Charles Laforge wrote:
>
> So you guys ARE lurking too..   :)
>


..nope, not lurking.  Just trying to help.   :-;

1998\01\25@100433 by wwl

picon face
>     The PICSTART Plus will support the 12C671/672 with the next release of
>     the firmware v1.50 (expected release in March).
Why on earth was this device supported on Promate (long) BEFORE
Picstart ?
It seems crazy to support devices on production programmers first whan
the devices are only sampling! How many developers use a Promate ? -
probably not many I'd guess!

Is this a trend we are likely to see continue, or a temporary hiccup?

    ____                                                           ____
  _/ L_/  Mike Harrison / White Wing Logic / spamBeGonewwlspamnetcomuk.co.uk  _/ L_/
_/ W_/  Hardware & Software design / PCB Design / Consultancy  _/ W_/
/_W_/  Industrial / Computer Peripherals / Hazardous Area      /_W_/

1998\01\25@133612 by Charles Laforge

picon face
>
>Charles Laforge wrote:
>>
>> So you guys ARE lurking too..   :)
>>
>
>
>..nope, not lurking.  Just trying to help.   :-;
>

I'm glad to hear that.

Charles

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


'Will MPLAB / ICEPIC / PICSTART work with NT?'
1998\02\04@060709 by GERRY COX
flavicon
face
I have been 'upgraded' to NT.

Can I expect the following  to work OK.?

MPLAB 3.31
PICSTART Plus 1.41 (with 1.20 firmware)
ICEPIC universal emulator v1.00

When I enable the Picstart, I get a message 'Command 80 not echoed properly
- was AB'

Can anyone help please?

Gerry Cox
EraseMEgcoxEraseMEspamdek.com

1998\02\04@160215 by John Bellini

flavicon
face
One problem here might be the MPLAB is written in 16bit format and NT
and
Window 95 are 32 bit programs.  They don't like to run 16 bit programs.
NT is much more complex and stable, but also more picky in regards to
what
it wants to run.

> {Original Message removed}

1998\02\04@162131 by Mauro, Chuck

flavicon
face
Actually, the problem is more an issue of NT's overall operating
structure.  Win 95 apps can still touch I/O directly but not under NT -
that's why you don't see anybody releasing native NT versions of their
code.  This is especially problematic for emulator products, PC based
scopes, analyzers and other real time tools...

NT operates in protected mode.  When a process attempts to perform real
time I/O, layers of OS intercept the request, adding an indeterminate
amount of latency.  Permission levels tend be an issue as well.  Real
time OS resource is not directly accessible unless ring 0 drivers are
written to handle the I/O that is needed (especially comm ports and the
like), as well as the need for custiom ring 0 and 3 APIs to pass the
data back and forth.  What we're waiting on is the development effort
required of the tool vendors out there to adapt to a protected mode OS -
hence, Microchip, like just about everyone else, does not support NT as
of yet.

C. Mauro

> {Original Message removed}

1998\02\04@164022 by Dan Larson

flavicon
face
On Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:58:41 -0800, John Bellini wrote:

>One problem here might be the MPLAB is written in 16bit format and NT
>and
>Window 95 are 32 bit programs.  They don't like to run 16 bit programs.
>NT is much more complex and stable, but also more picky in regards to
>what
>it wants to run.
>

MPLAB runs just fine under OS/2 Warp in a WIN-OS2 session ;-)



>> {Original Message removed}

'FS Picstart 16B1's'
1998\02\22@100328 by ken

flavicon
picon face
I am having a clear out in my workshop and have come across my old
Picstart 16B1's that I used before I got a plus. They are not complete
as they don't have the PSU's but are other wise fully working. They have
different firmware revisions 2 x V1.7, 1 x V2.0 these are on offer for
20.00 ukp or 30.00 USD each plus shipping charge.

Ken.

+-----------------------------+--------------------------------------------+
|      Ken Hewitt  G8PWC      |        Email spamBeGonekenspam_OUTspam.....welwyn.demon.co.uk        |
|      /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/      |  Homepage   http://www.welwyn.demon.co.uk  |
+-----------------------------+--------------------------------------------+

'PIC Packages and PICStart Plus Question'
1998\02\22@131224 by Timothy M. Deterly

picon face
Hi,
   I am getting ready to buy the PICStart Plus Programmer from Digikey, and
have a few questions about it and about PICs in general.  First of all will
this programmer work with Windows 95?  I just when to Microchip's web page and
there it said it needed Windows 3.1 or something like that, any ways it wasn't
95, is this true?  Another question I have is, what do the different type
chips packages look like, and which ones are the easiest to use?  Such as,
what is a  Soic package, a CDip, a PLCC, and a CLCC.  Which type of package do
most people use?  And also is there a name that tells you if a Dip package is
going to be a wide one, vs. the more common narrow ones.  One last question I
just thought of, what is the difference between Flash memory and EEProm
memory?  The Flash seems to be the better way to go, is it?
Thanks,
Timothy
spamTimMicDetspamaol.com

1998\02\23@012730 by Mike Keitz

picon face
On Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:12:05 EST "Timothy M. Deterly" <RemoveMETimMicDetKILLspamspamKILLspamAOL.COM>
writes:
>Hi,
>    I am getting ready to buy the PICStart Plus Programmer from
>Digikey, and
>have a few questions about it and about PICs in general.  First of all
>will
>this programmer work with Windows 95?

Yes it does.  MPLAB is a 16-bit Windows application that works with
either 3.1 or 95, and drives the PICSTART Plus.

 Another question I have is, what do the different
>type
>chips packages look like, and which ones are the easiest to use?

The DIP package is almost universally preferred for hacking and prototype
work.  This is the old-style "bug" IC with leads on 0.1" spacing that
point down so they can be inserted in holes in the board or in a socket.
The Cdip is a DIP made of ceramic material, and in the case of EPROM
PICs, fitted with a transparent window in the top so the chip can be
erased with UV light.  The other styles are surface-mount, which are
popular in products because they need less space.  But they are generally
soldered to the board, making removal to for reprogramming impractical.

> And also is there a name that tells you if a Dip
>package is
>going to be a wide one, vs. the more common narrow ones.

You can find this out by studying the data sheet and finding which
package styles are offered.  I think only the old 12-bit PIC16C55 and
PIC16C57 are offered in wide 28-pin DIPs.  All the other 28-pin PICs are
0.3" wide.  But check the data or obtain a sample chip before designing
the board!

One last
>question I
>just thought of, what is the difference between Flash memory and
>EEProm
>memory?

In the case of PICs, just the name.  The PIC16C84 (becoming hard to
obtain as it is discontinued) and PIC16F84 both have electrically-
erasable program memory and EEPROM data memory.  To the user the program
memories in the chips are identical.

>The Flash seems to be the better way to go, is it?

Salesdroids would like for you to think that.

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

'Programming PIC16C711 with PicStart16B1'
1998\02\26@070923 by Ingo Wolf

flavicon
face
Hello,

I've ordered some PIC16C711-Devices thinking they are compatible with the
PIC16C71 ones. But I can't programm them with my old PicStart16B1
programmer.
I've got something stuff into one device, but it is not programmed corectly,
the other devices I tryed are left blank even If I try to programm them many
times. Only the Config Bits are programmed (I can see the changes if I read
them out) the Programm Memory is still 3FFF. I can't understand how I get
something wrong into the first one on nothing in the others, but I can still
programm my old PIC16C71 EP-ROM-Device.
I had to notice to that MP-Lab don't support my Programmer and I can't find
any new updates for my dos-software, so I'm a little bit angry about
microchip, the programmer is not yet two years old.

Any Tips?

Bye
Ingo

'Update PicStart Firmware V2.0 for MPLAB'
1998\02\26@160750 by Ingo Wolf

flavicon
face
Hello,

somebody told me that I can update the Firmware (V2.0) of my old Picstart
16B1 programmer (the 40 pins Pic on it) and than it will work whit MPLAB
which it not does at time.
Have anybody else done this too?
Can I get some preprogrammed PIC with new Firmware from somewhere?

Bye


'Update PicStart Firmware V2.0 for MPLAB'
1998\03\04@094721 by Mark Birks
flavicon
face
Have you had any luck ?

I would like to upgrade my OLD PICSTART B1 too...

{Quote hidden}

'Updating Picstart-16B1'
1998\03\10@160914 by fcembrola

flavicon
face
Does anyone know if there is any way to upgrade
Picstart-16B1 to enable it to program
8-pin devices?

If any of you has managed to do something similar,
I would like to know how you did it.

Thank you and keep programming,

Francesco Cembrola

1998\03\10@191323 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
fcembrola wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if there is any way to upgrade
> Picstart-16B1 to enable it to program
> 8-pin devices?
>
> If any of you has managed to do something similar,
> I would like to know how you did it.
>
> Thank you and keep programming,
>
> Francesco Cembrola

Have a look at:
http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
or
http://www.dontronics.com/phoenix.html

Don McKenzie  donspam_OUTspamspamdontronics.com   http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
For more details, send a blank message to infospamspam@spam@dontronics.com
or spamBeGonesimstick.....spamdontronics.com or .....basics@spam@spamdontronics.com

1998\03\11@061457 by m00c0600

flavicon
face
fcembrola wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if there is any way to upgrade
> Picstart-16B1 to enable it to program
> 8-pin devices?
>
> If any of you has managed to do something similar,
> I would like to know how you did it.
>
> Thank you and keep programming,
>
> Francesco Cembrola

The software on the Picstart's internal MCU would have to be upgraded,
and it is possible that a hardware modification would be required also.

I think that Microchip now only support the Picstart-plus.  I have just
upgraded my Picstart-plus to do 12C series part, using new firmware
downloaded from http://www.microchip.com

I suppose that even if Microchip do not support it, it would be possible
to "reverse-engineer" the 16B in order to write your own 12C support!
But it would probably cost you less to upgrade to picstart-plus.

jim ford

'Newfound Warp 3 and Picstart 16-B'
1998\03\22@145138 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Robert Walker wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>         I bought a Warp3 mid last year, and found it very easy to use.
>
>         The product is relatively cheap, easy to use software, and
> best
>         of all supports a number of different types of PICs.
>
>         Recent surfs to Dontronics and his links show later upgrades
> in
>         firmware (I must look into sometime :-)) show that this
> product
>         is being supported.

Upgrades are now free for all owners of PP1 and Warp-3.
Well all you need is your own 57/XT or JW part to program.
See:
http://www.dontronics.com/newfound.html
to download the hex files and PC dos drivers.

Don't forget the file upgrade for the Picstart 16-B at:
http://www.dontronics.com/phoenix.html
This is also free, but un-supported.

Don McKenzie  @spam@donspamdontronics.com   http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
For more details, send a blank message to infoRemoveMEspamdontronics.com
or spamsimstickspamdontronics.com or basicsspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTdontronics.com

'FS Picstart 16B1's'
1998\03\29@052651 by paulb

flavicon
face
Hello Ken.

> I am having a clear out in my workshop and have come across my old
> Picstart 16B1's that I used before I got a plus.

> They have different firmware revisions 2 x V1.7, 1 x V2.0 these are on
> offer for 20.00 ukp or 30.00 USD each plus shipping charge.

 Any nibbles so far?

 Regards,
       Paul B.

1998\03\29@074320 by ken

flavicon
picon face
In article <spam_OUT351E21AB.485F@spam@spamRemoveMEmidcoast.com.au>, Paul B. Webster VK2BZC
<spampaulbspamspamMIDCOAST.COM.AU> writes
>Hello Ken.
>
>> I am having a clear out in my workshop and have come across my old
>> Picstart 16B1's that I used before I got a plus.
>
>> They have different firmware revisions 2 x V1.7, 1 x V2.0 these are on
>> offer for 20.00 ukp or 30.00 USD each plus shipping charge.
>
>  Any nibbles so far?
>
>  Regards,
>        Paul B.

Yes they all went within a few days, and I was still getting offers for
a week after.

Cheers

Ken.


+-----------------------------+--------------------------------------------+
|      Ken Hewitt  G8PWC      |        Email @spam@kenspam_OUTspamwelwyn.demon.co.uk        |
|      /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/      |  Homepage   http://www.welwyn.demon.co.uk  |
+-----------------------------+--------------------------------------------+


'Which Micros can I use with PicStart Programmer?'
1998\04\13@230105 by Chris Cole
flavicon
face
Where can I find a list of pic's that are programmable by the PicStart
Plus programmer by MicroChip?  So far all I have worked with are the
'84's, and I'd like to play with some of the other micros that MicroChip
has to offer. I understand that the '84 and the '83 are the only micro's
with flash program space, and the others I'd have to use a UV eraser
during development...  But this ought to be somewhat painless because the
EPROM micros can be erased in about 2 minutes under the DigiKey UV
mini-eraser (I read from the book 'Design with PIC Microcontrollers, by
John B. Peatman).

       Chris Cole
       .....colespam.....easyon.com

1998\04\14@023827 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
Chris Cole <spamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> Where can I find a list of pic's that are programmable by the
> PicStart Plus programmer by MicroChip?

Chris:

The Picstart Plus programs all the PICs.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - RemoveMEfastfwdRemoveMEspamix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1998\04\14@154258 by Calvin

flavicon
face
>Where can I find a list of pic's that are programmable by the PicStart
>Plus programmer by MicroChip?  So far all I have worked with are the
>'84's, and I'd like to play with some of the other micros that MicroChip
>has to offer. I understand that the '84 and the '83 are the only micro's
>with flash program space, and the others I'd have to use a UV eraser
>during development...  But this ought to be somewhat painless because the
>EPROM micros can be erased in about 2 minutes under the DigiKey UV

                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

he he :)
better make it about 10min.

Calvin





>mini-eraser (I read from the book 'Design with PIC Microcontrollers, by
>John B. Peatman).
>
>        Chris Cole
>        KILLspamcole.....spamKILLspameasyon.com
>

1998\04\14@164143 by Martin R. Green

flavicon
face
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:42:08 -0500, Calvin <tgospam_OUTspamspam_OUTCHIH1.TELMEX.NET.MX>
wrote:

>>Where can I find a list of pic's that are programmable by the PicStart
>>Plus programmer by MicroChip?  So far all I have worked with are the
>>'84's, and I'd like to play with some of the other micros that MicroChip
>>has to offer. I understand that the '84 and the '83 are the only micro's
>>with flash program space, and the others I'd have to use a UV eraser
>>during development...  But this ought to be somewhat painless because the
>>EPROM micros can be erased in about 2 minutes under the DigiKey UV
>
>                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>he he :)
> better make it about 10min.
>
>Calvin
>

Where'd you hear that Calvin?  PIC's erase in about 2.5 minutes in my
DataErase II, which I did, in fact, purchase from DigiKey.

Martin.
Martin R. Green
KILLspamelimarspam@spam@NOSPAMbigfoot.com

To reply, remove the NOSPAM from the return address
Stamp out SPAM everywhere!!!

1998\04\14@190233 by ogerio Odriozola

flavicon
face
My DataErase II also does 16C71, 74, 622 in 2.5 to 3 minutes (I have not
tested the outer positions on the erases, but the 2 center ones take that
long).

Rogerio





@spam@elimarRemoveMEspamNOSPAMBIGFOOT.COM on 14/04/98 03:26:07 PM

Please respond to PICLIST@spam@spamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU

To:   spam_OUTPICLISTspam_OUTspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Rogerio Odriozola/MTY/TVA/Dataflux)
Subject:  Re: Which Micros can I use with PicStart Programmer?




On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:42:08 -0500, Calvin <RemoveMEtgospam.....CHIH1.TELMEX.NET.MX>
wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1998\04\14@210425 by Calvin

flavicon
face
It may depend on the pics, I am recently working with C63s and I also have a
DataraseII. At first I left them about 6-8 minutes, but sometimes they were
not completely erased, so I now use 12 minutes, just to be sure every time.

Calvin


{Original Message removed}

'Adapter for 17C756 using Picstart Plus'
1998\04\14@224306 by James & Ili

flavicon
face
Does anyone have a wiring diagram to make the adapter for programming
the C756 with the Picstart Plus. I think $129 is a little high for an
adapter!

Thanks in advance !!!

James & Ili
Irving, TX. 75038

1998\04\14@225801 by Jon Hylands

flavicon
face
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:41:47 -0500, James & Ili <jandiTakeThisOuTspamMPSI.NET> wrote:

> Does anyone have a wiring diagram to make the adapter for programming
> the C756 with the Picstart Plus. I think $129 is a little high for an
> adapter!

I suspect it takes more than just a rewiring. The 17C756 is programmed in a
completely different way than all the other PIC micros. It has two pins
that are held high at 13 volts, and the programmer code is actually in the
PIC's ROM (so the 17c needs to be running in order to program it). It uses
an instruction that none of the other PICs have (TABLWT - Table Write) for
writing program instructions to the EPROM.

Basically, there are a number of things that need to be done to program the
17c756.

You need to put the TEST pin to program voltage (13 volts), and then a usec
later put the MCLR pin to program voltage. You start the device clock
(oscillator, <= 8 MHz) on pin RA1, and then wait at least 20 instruction
cycles for the ROM code to initialize the USART/SCI so it can receive
commands. Then you start sending it commands over the serial line.

There's a document that describes this whole process in a whole lot more
detail, you can get it at
http://www2.microchip.com/download/lit/progspec/30274a.pdf.

Basically, I suspect the $129 adapter is almost an entirely separate
programmer that uses some of the functionality of the main programmer, but
extends it to allow for this new way of programming.

Later,
Jon

--------------------------------------------------------------
  Jon Hylands      .....JonspamTakeThisOuThuv.com      http://www.huv.com/jon

 Project: Micro Seeker (Micro Autonomous Underwater Vehicle)
          http://www.huv.com

'Phoenix B software and Picstart B1 problems'
1998\04\17@191731 by ashley

flavicon
face
Hi and HELP !!

Has anybody had problems getting the Phoenix B firmware and the picstart B1 to
work?? I have!!

I programmed a 17C43 JW  with Phoenix B and plugged in a 16C84 to test it and
the following happened, C1 errors.

If any body has any clues as to why I can Read and Verify a Pic but not program
or blank a Pic please let me know.

I have tried all the switches available.

feedback please
EraseMEashsparkyspamKILLspamclara.net
ASH - UK -

1998\04\18@175911 by Adrian Godwin

flavicon
picon face
ashley barnett <ashsparkyEraseMEspamCLARA.NET> wrote :

> Hi and HELP !!

> Has anybody had problems getting the Phoenix B firmware and the picstart B1 to
> work?? I have!!

> I programmed a 17C43 JW  with Phoenix B and plugged in a 16C84 to test it and
> the following happened, C1 errors.

> If any body has any clues as to why I can Read and Verify a Pic but not
program
> or blank a Pic please let me know.

> I have tried all the switches available.

I used a 17C44 JW, and have been able to program a 16c84 without
problems.  I doubt that the 17c44 is any different from a 17c43 in
this application, so it's probably something different about your PC.
Programming is different from other functions in that the handshake
lines hold off PC output for a significant time : reading will work
OK without the handshake lines connected at all.

C1 errors are apparently UART overruns - try running the system in
the simplest possible mode (no Windows, pure DOS boot, no mouse, no
TSRs etc). Also try disabling the UART FIFO if you have one - I don't
think this should cause C1 errors, but it might (the PC thinks it's
lost characters from the programmer, when really it's not yet sent the
previous command).

Phoenix (TM4) uses strict hardware handshaking to avoid sending more
than 1 byte ahead to the programmer .. this doesn't really work if you
use a braindamaged PC UART like the 16550 (it doesn't stop
transmitting when the handshake lines change, just generates an
interrupt while continuing to send the fifo contents).

I've got the core of a TM4 driver for Linux running, but have been too
busy to develop it much further. If there's anyone else who's interested
in getting this going, I'd appreciate some help to try it out and make
some constructive criticism.


-adrian

1998\04\19@091416 by ashley

flavicon
face
on 18 Apr 98, pic microcontroller discussion list wrote...

>ashley barnett <EraseMEashsparkyspamspamBeGoneCLARA.NET> wrote :
>
>> Hi and HELP !!
>
>> Has anybody had problems getting the Phoenix B firmware and the picstart B1
to
{Quote hidden}

I have done all of this and tried it on three different PCs now. I think there
could be a problem with the Picstart or a problem with the Phoenix software !,
It has occasionally worked and programmed half of a 16c84 program but crashed.
I am still suspect about the software as when I tested the Vpp pin when reading
I had a 1 sec pulse of 13.5Volts, however when attempting a program or verify I
only had a 20mSec pulse of 13.5V !! I am not sure if that has anything to do
with it? - It is a real pain as I need to program a 16C74 a number of times.



>I've got the core of a TM4 driver for Linux running, but have been too
>busy to develop it much further. If there's anyone else who's interested
>in getting this going, I'd appreciate some help to try it out and make
>some constructive criticism.
>
>
>-adrian
>
>

1998\04\19@174728 by ashley

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>> Hi and HELP !!
>
>> Has anybody had problems getting the Phoenix B firmware and the picstart B1
to
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I have done all of this and tried it on three different PCs now. I think there
could be a problem with the Picstart or a problem with the Phoenix software !,
It has occasionally worked and programmed half of a 16c84 program but crashed.
I am still suspect about the software as when I tested the Vpp pin when reading
I had a 1 sec pulse of 13.5Volts, however when attempting a program or verify I
only had a 20mSec pulse of 13.5V !! I am not sure if that has anything to do
with it? - It is a real pain as I need to program a 16C74 a number of times.



>I've got the core of a TM4 driver for Linux running, but have been too
>busy to develop it much further. If there's anyone else who's interested
>in getting this going, I'd appreciate some help to try it out and make
>some constructive criticism.
>
>
>-adrian
>
>

'PHOENIX-B and PICSTART B'
1998\04\24@141446 by ashley

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Have you had trouble with Phoenix B and a Picstart B programmer.

I did but it was a simple self inflicted error caused via programming the
17C4x/JW
with the wrong settings.

Here's where I went wrong.

When programming I used the following incorrect settings
Attempt 1;
Osc= EC
WDT= x1     ----did not work

Attempt2;
Osc= XT
WDT= x1     ----did not work

Attempt3;
You SHOULD use:
Osc=  XT
WDT= x256   ----DID work

Attempt4; (not done yet)
Osc= XT
WDT= TMR    ----this is what it should be.

If you have had problems then try reprogramming the PIC

Happy PICing

Ash - UK -


'Newfound PP1 Programmer, and Picstart-16B.'
1998\05\08@061123 by Don McKenzie
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All good things must come to an end, and I wish to announce that the
Newfound PP1 programmer manufacturing is finished. This was one of the
few production quality programmers (Variable VCC) that was produced as a
third party programmer for the PIC165X family of Micros.

In fact, I only have 3 left in stock. I felt I should let the piclisters
know before I saw the last of them go out the door. Prices, features can
be seen at:
http://www.dontronics.com/newfound.html

As you may be aware, all firmware code for the PP1, Warp-3, and Picstart
16-B is available from this site for free. This is to the Phoenix
standard See:
http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Sales of Warp-3 continue whilst stocks last, however the end is in sight
for this item also.

This is due to a combination of new Micros being introduced by Microchip
that replace the older 5x family, and the health of Jim Robertson of
Newfound.

Jim has been unable to continue with his work, and new developments are
not forthcoming, however he is prepared to support existing sales for a
reasonable period.

The Warp-3 is now running successfully on MacIntosh computers.

I can't imagine that I will have stock of any Newfound product after 2
or 3 months.

Don McKenzie  TakeThisOuTdonspamTakeThisOuTdontronics.com   http://www.dontronics.com

Kill unwanted email before it kills you!
http://www.dontronics.com/eremove.html

'DOS version of Picstart+ programming software?'
1998\05\09@010721 by Joe Little

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    There was a mention of an older DOS based version of the
    PIC-programming software last week.  The more I think of it, the
    better it seems to fit with the CCS DOS environment.  I looked on The
    CD and Microchip site, and took a quick tour of a dozen or so PIC web
    pages.  Anyone know where it is?  Is it Freeware?

    Many thanks
    Joe

    jlittlespamspam_OUTmindspring.com

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