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'Question: C vs Asm [OT]'
2000\04\12@082311 by paulb

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Walter Banks wrote:

>   Most silicon companies document sequences that have potential
>   problems in some applications.

 Or someone documents it for them.  Like the infamous Pentium HCF
instruction (sequence).

 Reminds me of my work machine's trick, much less frequent now I
extracted the loom wiring from the cooling fan (blades) and glued it
down elsewhere, but still intermittent, of crashing at 17:30 +/- 5
minutes local time.  It's uncanny!
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.
I do have a virus checker.

2000\04\12@083528 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Walter Banks wrote:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Most silicon companies document sequences that have potential</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; problems in some applications.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp; Or someone documents it for them.&nbsp; Like the infamous Pentium HCF</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">instruction (sequence).</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp; Reminds me of my work machine's trick, much less frequent now I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">extracted the loom wiring from the cooling fan (blades) and glued it</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">down elsewhere, but still intermittent, of crashing at 17:30 +/- 5</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">minutes local time.&nbsp; It's uncanny!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">--</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp; Cheers,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Paul B.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I do have a virus checker.</FONT>
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<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Well, I often get a (near)fatal exception error from my girlfriend if I miss dinner from working late :o)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Mike</FONT>
</P>

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2000\04\12@085025 by Alan B Pearce

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>Well, I often get a (near)fatal exception error from my girlfriend if I miss
dinner from working late :o)

Ah I see you have not seen the bug report! check this link.

http://junior.apk.net/~jbarta/bug/bug.html

2000\04\12@190321 by Mark Willis

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William Chops Westfield wrote:
> > Someday we will have WP compilers (Whole Program). You just state less
> > than a dozen lines of input/output requirements and click few option
> > buttons, the compiler will create your whole program at once.
>
> Hah.  Hah Hah!  I suppose this might be possible for those "problems" that
> you can specify the Input and output requirements within a dozen lines.
> Everyone knows that programming is easier with a full set of well specified
> product requirements, but how often do you actually get that?  Not often.
> Most software is is compromise in understanding vs implementation, and
> of course it tends to evolve...
>
> BillW

(We're semi-OT here at least, folks.  So I marked it [OT].)

You mean you EVER get clear requirements from a client, folks?  <G>  I
must've been working at the wrong places!  Next you'll tell me the other
docs you're given, have some similarity to the project you're working on
<G>

Been a while since I played with these at all.  Have they improved that
I haven't heard about?  The problems I've seen with "Whole Program"
generators are,

*  Code Bloat.  A Meg or so to do "Hello World", IOW.
*  Lack of ability to solve HARD problems (Linear Math Programming type
problems, Linear Algebra problems, HDD file structures, linked lists,
recursive situations, etc. have been problem areas in the past for
those.)
*  Requirement for a lot of machine resources:  WP compilers don't often
run on an XT palmtop/laptop.
*  Non-portability:  The requirement that you generate the program AT
the WP compiling machine (I can carry an old XT laptop or palmtop to the
park and program quite effectively all day, I'd have to use a 2-wheel
carrier to drag a Golf Cart battery to power a sufficiently powerful
machine to do WP compiling - and most stuff I do's not very simple, it'd
take hours of mouse clicking.)  It's nice to know what "sun" means
sometimes.
*  Hard to recycle "libraries" of mouse clicks and drags (i.e. for
several similar but different products, you cannot share ANYTHING, have
to carefully update each identically if you can.

Not saying they're useless - just that *I* don't find much use for them,
personally.  Now, as for C/ASM, I use both, depends on what I'm doing
which is more appropriate IMO.  Tend to use more C on the PC class
machines and ASM on the PICs, mostly.

 Mark

2000\04\12@212830 by Sean Breheny

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I took a quick look at that Haskell page, and it looks similar to a
functional language called Dylan, developed by Apple and which was taught
and used in a CS course I took here at Cornell.

These functional languages are amazing in that they work in a more strictly
mathematical sense (often use mathematical induction combined with
recursion), and you can often write code to accomplish very complex tasks
in only a few lines. However, I don't think this fits what Wagner is
talking about. You still need to figure out how to break the problem down
into the component pieces, and how those component pieces should be coded.
I think Wagner is just talking about feeding a simple specification to a
compiler and having it break the problem apart.

Sean

At 08:20 AM 4/13/00 +1000, Paul B. Webster VK2BZC wrote:
{Quote hidden}

| Sean Breheny
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| Electrical Engineering Student
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