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PICList Thread
'Power Line modem for PIC'
1998\09\28@102138 by Gary Janzen

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Hi,

I was wondering if anyone has successfully managed to communicate over
power lines in their house (or wherever) at baud rates greater than 1200
bps (the standard communication rate for power line modem chips
available from SGS-Thomsom and Philips).  I'd like for two or more PIC
processors to be able to communicate over the electrical wiring of my
house (without using X-10 communication protocol).

Any comments/advice/pointers/discussion would be most appreciated!

Gary Janzen

e-mail: spam_OUTdufus58TakeThisOuTspamhotmail.com

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1998\09\28@112329 by

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face
> Hi,
>
> I was wondering if anyone has successfully managed to communicate over
> power lines in their house (or wherever) at baud rates greater than 1200
> bps (the standard communication rate for power line modem chips
> available from SGS-Thomsom and Philips).  I'd like for two or more PIC
> processors to be able to communicate over the electrical wiring of my
> house (without using X-10 communication protocol).
>
> Any comments/advice/pointers/discussion would be most appreciated!
>
> Gary Janzen
>
>
Well, Nortel have managed to use power lines to transmit data at over
1Mbit/s.  It is currently being trialed in part of the UK for internet
useage.  I don't have any technical details, I don't work for the part of
Nortel that developed it, but there maybe something on a web page somewhere,
I'll see if I can find anything.

Regards

Mike Rigby-Jones
.....mrjonesKILLspamspam@spam@nortel.co.uk

1998\09\28@134956 by Peter L. Peres

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On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Rigby-Jones, Michael [PAI01:4837:EXCH] wrote:

> Well, Nortel have managed to use power lines to transmit data at over
> 1Mbit/s.  It is currently being trialed in part of the UK for internet
> useage.  I don't have any technical details, I don't work for the part of
> Nortel that developed it, but there maybe something on a web page somewhere,
> I'll see if I can find anything.

I don't know about Nortel, but apparently in many rural mountaineous areas
in Eastern Europe and Russia (?) power line broadcasts were the rule until
recently. This means, that AM radio station programs were modulated onto
the power lines directly. I've heard of 1 to 3 programs, all in the LW
domain (150-300 kHz ?). Now, if one takes a carrier this fast and applies
modern modem modulation technology to it, it could give 1 Mbps even
including network overheads and ECC.

AFAIK the method was in use since before the 2nd WW.

Maybe there will be some feedback one this from Eastern Europe and Russian
guys ?

Peter

1998\09\28@134959 by Peter L. Peres

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On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Gary Janzen wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I was wondering if anyone has successfully managed to communicate over
> power lines in their house (or wherever)

it was whatever, and yes.

> at baud rates greater than 1200
> bps (the standard communication rate for power line modem chips

no, you will have problems with the receiver filter bandwidth vs.
simplicity to achieve this.

> Any comments/advice/pointers/discussion would be most appreciated!

Find a schematic diagram for a 'power line FM intercom' that does not use
proprietary chips (i.e. with a PLL like the CMOS CD4046 and a few
transistors), and examine it closely. You will be able to replace the
voice circuits with a PIC that sends FM data, resp. receives data. If you
do something cunning with a DPDT relay and the PIC instead of the PTT
button it will even work semi-duplex. The major trick is, to get the
modulation LOW enough at Tx. The receiver can use a simple 'cassette tape
data storage adapter' schematic to restore PIC-able data from audio.

If you buy 2 kits of these intercoms you will have most parts to get
started, ready made. And BEWARE mains when experimenting. You have to make
sure that no part of the voice circuits are connected to mains. Some of
these devices are (were) built to IP2 and had a phase on the internal
chassis. These should not be used with a PIC.

hope this helps (sorry I can't post a schematic),

Peter

PS: The kit approach is 'easy' for beginners, do not be mistaken: I used a
PIC pin to drive the Tx coil directly of course. No more on this here ;)

1998\09\28@135654 by Harrison Cooper

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I work for a company part time that has been doing sorta this, in that
it modulates a signal to transmit both AM and FM on cables used in mine
hoists.  It provides a comm link from the cage to the hoistman.  Freqs
are 300Khz, 420 Khz and 550 KHz.

{Quote hidden}

1998\09\28@192349 by Craig Lee

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Try the CEbus modules from INTELLON or ITRAN.  http://www.intellon.com or
http://www.itrancomm.com

Intellon has some reasonable design kits, and the modules are quite
reasonable and easy to interface.

The distance is in the 750m range, and due to the CEbus spec, can have
65,536 modules per each of
65,536 homes, with maximum packet data of 256 bytes.

The speeds can be over 1Mb with 50kb and an extremely robust 8kb.

Itran's chipset is, coincidently the same pinout as Intellons.  Itran is
agressively pursuing Intellon's market,
thus I think it is obvious why.....

CEbus is, in my opinion, the way to go for control and consumer electronics
combined.

Craig


{Original Message removed}

1998\09\29@001411 by rrose

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> I was wondering if anyone has successfully managed to communicate over
> power lines in their house (or wherever) at baud rates greater than 1200
> bps (the standard communication rate for power line modem chips available
> from SGS-Thomsom and Philips).  I'd like for two or more PIC processors to
> be able to communicate over the electrical wiring of my house (without
> using X-10 communication protocol).
>
> Any comments/advice/pointers/discussion would be most appreciated!

Couple of years ago, Circuit Cellar Ink ran a two-part article on a
PIC-based powerline modem.  The modem chip that the project
used was manufactured by SGS-Thomson (now
STMicroelectronics).  The chip came in two flavors -- a 1200 baud
version (ST7537) and a 2400 baud version (ST7537HS1).

As far as I know, the chips are still available.

Good luck,

Richard L Rosenheim
EraseMErrosespam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTaccessnv.com

1998\09\29@041847 by Jerry Meng

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At 07:06 AM 9/28/98 PDT, you wrote:
>I was wondering if anyone has successfully managed to communicate over
>power lines in their house (or wherever) at baud rates greater than 1200
>bps (the standard communication rate for power line modem chips
>available from SGS-Thomsom and Philips).  I'd like for two or more PIC
>processors to be able to communicate over the electrical wiring of my
>house (without using X-10 communication protocol).
>
see http://www.intellon.com
they use SS technology on power line, speed is over 9600 bps i think



Jerry Meng, BA1FB

ba1fbspamspam_OUTqsl.net
http://www.qsl.net/ba1fb

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