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PICList Thread
'PICSTART 16B Software'
1999\02\11@190950 by Darrel Johansen

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There is a possibility that Microchip could put some or all of the
PICSTART 16B software into public domain.  Is there any interest
in the subscribers of the PICLIST to this?
--
___________________________
|     Darrel Johansen     |
|     tempe,  arizona     |
|   spam_OUTdarreljTakeThisOuTspamprimenet.com  |
|_________________________|

1999\02\11@194117 by Antonio L Benci

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Why not....

Darrel Johansen wrote:
>
> There is a possibility that Microchip could put some or all of the
> PICSTART 16B software into public domain.  Is there any interest
> in the subscribers of the PICLIST to this?
> --
> ___________________________
> |     Darrel Johansen     |
> |     tempe,  arizona     |
> |   .....darreljKILLspamspam@spam@primenet.com  |
> |_________________________|

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1999\02\11@195808 by Tony Nixon

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I think that if the Picstart 16B software is made available it would be
a good thing judging by the amount of programming enquiries.

Surely anything that makes using a PIC easier for us has got to be good
for Microchip.


On a blank note...

It always amazes me at the posts saying

"Somebody" wrote:

followed by a copy of one or more previous posts, but nothing else.

I scan later to see if a follow up is sent, but still nothing.

Strange!!?

--
Best regards

Tony

Multimedia 16F84 Beginners PIC Tools.
** NEW PicNPro Programmer and Port Interface **

http://www.picnpoke.com
Email EraseMEpicnpokespam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTcdi.com.au

1999\02\11@212835 by Scott Dattalo

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On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Darrel Johansen wrote:

> There is a possibility that Microchip could put some or all of the
> PICSTART 16B software into public domain.  Is there any interest
> in the subscribers of the PICLIST to this?

Are rhetorical questions necessary?

Which portions are you thinking about releasing? As you know, there's a
background task running right now on reverse engineering the picstart
protocol. I can't speak for everyone, but I know several people who like
to use their Picstart's under Linux. Releasing the Picstart code will just
make this happen faster (I presume...).

Scott

1999\02\11@221036 by Marcos Migliorini

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Yes!!!!!!!!
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Darrel Johansen <darreljspamspam_OUTPRIMENET.COM>
Para: @spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Fecha: Jueves, 11 de Febrero de 1999 09:09 p.m.
Asunto: PICSTART 16B Software


{Quote hidden}

1999\02\11@224023 by Jim Robertson

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At 18:26 11/02/99 -0800, you wrote:
>On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Darrel Johansen wrote:
>
>> There is a possibility that Microchip could put some or all of the
>> PICSTART 16B software into public domain.  Is there any interest
>> in the subscribers of the PICLIST to this?
>
>Are rhetorical questions necessary?
>
>Which portions are you thinking about releasing? As you know, there's a
>background task running right now on reverse engineering the picstart
>protocol. I can't speak for everyone, but I know several people who like
>to use their Picstart's under Linux. Releasing the Picstart code will just
>make this happen faster (I presume...).
>
>Scott

I didn't think it was a rhetorical question though I think some of the
replies have been misguided. On offer here is the picstart 16B stuff.
What use is this for those working on the picstart plus? Having reversed
engineered and mastered both, I can say very little, if anything.

As it was, Al Loverich suggested that he might want to give me the 16B
protocol
stuff ages ago. I didn't bother to take him up on his offer as I knew fully
that
it had little value to anyone capable of any worth while programmer design AND
WILLING TO DO IT!

Given the time I have offered my phoenix 16B upgrade and the only "limited"
interest in it, I seriously doubt that there is a great interest in the
16B. I
believe that overwhelmingly there has been an exodus to the picstart plus.
The fact that there is a linux project for the picstart plus and not the
16b is
supportive of my claim.

Regarding linux...

I have offered my TM4 protocol, the same protocol that allows the 16B to
program every PIC except the 17C parts, publicly and at no cost for years.
(The same protocol was for the 16B, 16C Warp-3 and PP1 programmers.)
Perhaps 4 or 5 linux "enthusiasts" have wasted my time getting the protocol
asking for assistance, making big statements and finally producing absolutely
nothing. Meanwhile Kevin Coble asked for and got the TM4 protocol and
produced
MACPIC. Perhaps this is why we just have crossed compared our working
picstart
plus protocol notes.

In short, it is easy to say yes to something for free. The world's junk boxes
are full of this stuff. My point is that if someone was SERIOUS then they
would not be waiting for something to fall into their laps. They would be
putting up already.

Giving out a protocol to every dreamer is a great way to damage the
interests of
those doing already and all the PIC users further down the chain. But if
microchip
wants to reduce the 16B to the same status as a "TAIT STYLE" programmer, so
be it.

It will be an opportunity to sit back and watch a whole bunch of wankers and
wannabes twiddle their thumbs and produce half hearted efforts that are a
nothing
more than a disservice to pic users. This is what you get when something is
too
easy.

Jim




________________________________________
Jim Robertson
Email: spamBeGonenewfoundspamBeGonespampipeline.com.au
http://www.pipeline.com.au/users/newfound
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers and firmware
upgrades for many programmers.
________________________________________

1999\02\12@045940 by Nigel Orr

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At 18:26 11/02/99 -0800, Scott wrote:

>Which portions are you thinking about releasing? As you know, there's a
>background task running right now on reverse engineering the picstart
>protocol. I can't speak for everyone, but I know several people who like
>to use their Picstart's under Linux. Releasing the Picstart code will just
>make this happen faster (I presume...).

Is the 16B protocol the same as the Plus?  If so, it sounds like a great
idea.  And is there any chance of Microchip releasing MPLAB for Linux/X?  I
would expect there would be a lot of interest, even if it upsets the
reverse engineers trying to do it themselves...

Nigel

1999\02\13@213258 by g.daniel.invent.design

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Yes Jim,
most of us are aware that you make chip programmers for PIC,
As for the diatribe below though, do you expect credibility ?

I think your last paragraph expresses your attitude to your own
specialist business most eloquently, here it is repeated, it may bring
back some nostalgic memories of your own early efforts:

> It will be an opportunity to sit back and watch a whole bunch of wankers and
> wannabes twiddle their thumbs and produce half hearted efforts that are a
> nothing
> more than a disservice to pic users. This is what you get when something is
> too
> easy.
>
> Jim

Yes, I too have done S/W for programmers, if you think so little of
those involved in this field(except for yourself *of course*) then
perhaps it is time for you to move on to *real* applications.

regards,
Graham Daniel.

1999\02\14@074436 by Martin McCormick

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       This is definitely a good idea.  Anything that increases the
knowledge base and makes more things possible will sell more PIC's.

Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK
OSU Center for Computing and Information Services Data Communications Group

1999\02\14@232828 by Jim Robertson

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At 15:13 14/02/99 +1300, you wrote:

Well I really must apologies for the wankers and wannabes
bit. Firstly for the use of such strong language.

Secondly because it was misdirected. Having though about it
I realize that my emotions hadn't moved on to match my current
thoughts. It is the linux "time wasters" that I really had it in
for. Still, you think these things but never quite say it in that
fashion.

Just after I sent it I wondered what the hell was going through
my head. So to one and all, I apologize.


I would have been disappointed if someone didn't tackle me over
it. The last thing the piclist needs is an "untouchable."

However Graham, your effort seems to indicate long standing
resentment toward me. It appears to be an exercise in character
assassination and hypocritical and not a remedy for anything.
Most piclisters have a much more balanced view of my efforts as
evidenced by the following email.

"BTW it is because of the way you have presented yourself on the PIC list
that I feel comfortable dealing with you.  Thanks for all the information
and help you have given in the past,and I'm sure in the future."

If I let this person, and other piclist supporters, down then I apologize
because I appreciate their support and good will.

However Graham, that is not a license for your to tell me and others
what my attitude is when clearly you are not motivated by any good will
at all and not objective.

Maybe you should contemplate your own navel for a while and not mine.

Jim


>Yes Jim,
>most of us are aware that you make chip programmers for PIC,
>As for the diatribe below though, do you expect credibility ?
>
>I think your last paragraph expresses your attitude to your own
>specialist business most eloquently, here it is repeated, it may bring
>back some nostalgic memories of your own early efforts:
>
>> It will be an opportunity to sit back and watch a whole bunch of wankers
and
{Quote hidden}

________________________________________
Jim Robertson
Email: TakeThisOuTnewfoundEraseMEspamspam_OUTpipeline.com.au
http://www.pipeline.com.au/users/newfound
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers and firmware
upgrades for many programmers.
________________________________________

1999\02\15@043727 by Keith Causey

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<cut> It is the linux "time wasters" that I really had it in
>for <cut>

One of the brightest and most imaginative people I know is a co-employee. He
is a "linux time waster". I applaud his efforts in not knuckleing under to a
monopoly. Why can't we just all get along and talk about pics and scenix
chips?

1999\02\15@173352 by Tony Nixon

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Last night I had to program 101 16F84 chips using a Parallax programmer.
I've programmed 1000's of 84's in the past but two of these new ones
refused to program even after many tries.

Oh well, I thought I'd try to program them with the programmer I
designed myself.

Bingo - both programmed and worked ok with no problems.

I like being an amatuer - it keeps my curiosity aroused.

--
Best regards

Tony

Multimedia 16F84 Beginners PIC Tools.
** NEW PicNPro Programmer and Port Interface **

http://www.picnpoke.com
Email RemoveMEpicnpokespamTakeThisOuTcdi.com.au

1999\02\16@075747 by Piotr Buciak

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What was your programmer like?
Was it only designed to program PICs or more versatile?

Piotr Buciak

On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Tony Nixon wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1999\02\16@172300 by Tony Nixon

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Piotr Buciak wrote:
>
> What was your programmer like?

Can't say yet, I haven't had any feedback. It's not meant to be in
competition with any other programmer designs out there, but just to add
more value to the PicNPoke software. It also interfaces to the 2 code
simulators and provides hardware ports for a virual 16F84.

> Was it only designed to program PICs or more versatile?

It can program 93Cxx EEPROMs also.

If I get time, I may add support for other devices to make more use of
the onboard 16C74. It's only half full at the moment.

--
Best regards

Tony

Multimedia 16F84 Beginners PIC Tools.
** NEW PicNPro Programmer and Port Interface **

http://www.picnpoke.com
Email EraseMEpicnpokespamcdi.com.au

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