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PICList Thread
'PIC chip and sonoluminescence'
1997\03\07@092315 by mail12706

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I have not programmed microcontrollers since college, I am in the patent
field, and I have just started to learn the RISC operations on the PIC.
I wrote this letter to Scott Dattallo, however, I can open it up to all
of you because it makes less harm for me if I put it out here on the big
internet.

Mr. Dattallo

I heard you were a pro at PIC programming and wanted to get some
guidance from you.

I recently found out that a scientist discovered how to "split" water
in 1987 and got a patent on it.  I tested it and let the gas into my
engine through the air vacuum hose and I was Mad Max for quite some
time.  Anyway, the special gas burns with an atomic flame and has
overunity properties in itself (nuclear heat). Two overunity processes
(cold fusion and
sonoluminescence are suspected)!  Ok, the problem, people want to
replicate the
frequencies and experiments but I had spent several weeks designing a
frequency
generator that had several timing and counting chips, which worked fine,
but it was clumsy and large.

Bingo, here comes the PIC16C84.  Well, I
spent so much time on the fuel cell and the catalysts (both of which are
inexpensive and not hard to get) that I became burned out for learning
the risc code etc.  So, here you come.  These vertical counters sounded
like what I need, but I may not need them.  Ok I need 3 seconds on and 3
seconds off, with
63.625khz from one pin, one half of that from the other pin=1/2f, 1/4f
on the next pin and 1/8 f on the next, so I can sum them up with four
resistors to a single output (to the driving transistors).  This to me
means that I don't need a vertical counter yet, but just to increment at
f from the first port B, MSB a 0 to 15 nonterminating count that is four
bits in
resolution.  Remember, this has got to be done for
three seconds and then stop for 3 and then continued.  So can I use the
output from the WDT to delay for 3?

The next thing I wanted to do was get a single pin and another pin as
complement to generate an adjustable 100hz-5khz output to drive some
more transistors (no 3 second rule).  Can all this be done on a PIC, and
how would you suggest (or could you refer me to someone?  It is clear I
could use a pushbutton switch on one input pin for adjusting the
frequency up and one for adjusting the frequency down, which would
involve two bounceless switch routines.


So far, we are talking about 4 pins summed up into one output, 2 more
pins as output, and two input pins to two pushbutton switches.

If I could reduce my circuit to one PIC chip, that would free my hands
to make a presentation on the MHD electolysis cell, publicly, so that
everyone could reproduce this.

1997\03\07@132551 by sdattalo

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mail12706@pop.net wrote:
>
> Mr. Dattallo
>
> I heard you were a pro at PIC programming and wanted to get some
> guidance from you.
>

Mr. mail12706,

There are many very talented on people on the PIC list that
can solve this simple problem you describe.

I'm only interested to the extent that I can dispel the
"over unity" mysticism. There's nothing in life that's
larger than life...

Scott

1997\03\08@012652 by mail12706

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antti@sistudio.com wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Antti- appreciated.  You are the only one who gave me any concrete
answers to start out with.  Everyone is interested in plans, however, if
I can't simplify the circuit into a PIC, then no one will be able to
build the plans easily (which I will post anonymously at John Bedini's
site (http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/tesla.html)!  The chip need not be
ultra frequency stable, simply because the resonant frequency of the HOH
atom has memory and that it approaches its own resonance, again, you
would have to be looking at the patent to notice this.

rem, it should not be too bad

I will start out with some code I think will work.  Crawling before
walking:

from david tait, here is some short code that amused me

       LIST    P=16C84
       MOVLW   0
       TRIS    6
       OPTION
LOOP    SLEEP
       INCF    6,F
       GOTO    LOOP
       END

causes RB0-RB7 to increment 00000000-->11111111
which means we are halfway there, so to modify this statement, we only
need the fastest pin going at f, which we can tweak with a variable RC
clock, and we only need to tris 4-pins as 4-bits.  Rem 4 resistors sums
this, so


               LIST    P=16C84

               CLRF    PORTB
               BSF     STATUS, RP0
               MOVLW   0xC0            ; RB(6-7) as inputs  from pushbuttons
                                       ; RB(4-5) as the two other counted outpu
ts
                                       ; RB(0-3) as the 4-bit up count outputs
               MOVWF   TRISB
               OPTION
PUHARICH        INCF    6,0             ; this is where I have my question- how
to increment
only RB(0-3), and so I assume 6 is port B and 0 is for RB(0-3)  but this
is where the 4-bit count is satisfied for the fusion drive circuit, next
the Tesla Switch circuit pins RB(6-7)
               DECFSZ  reg,1           ; you said decrementing a counter,ok, so
I think you
mean subtract until a carrier number decided by the bounceless switch
routine is met for toggling RB(6-7) at the lower frequency, I will
constantly subtract F from the reg and if this breaks to zero I it calls
routine Tesla for RB(6-7) which means I have to set the reg as the
carrier switch.  I think this keeps the 4-bit count sequence constant!
               GOTO    PUHARICH
TESLA           INCF    6,C             ; toggle RB6
               COMF    6,C             ; have to complement the RB7 from RB6 bu
t don't know how !
               END



Once the relationship between the registers is properly fixed, I then
need to revamp this whole set of code and put in the bounceless switch
routine to determine the reg variable.  Note that even though the reg
setting part from the bounceless switch may not work at first, the
fusion drive pins RB(0-3) should still kick, and there should be some
sort of output on the Tesla Switch pins RB(6-7) pins I hope.

You know, for a someone who has lost his instruction set assembly
knowledge, I think I can study up on this.  Apparently, this program
does not need a whole lot of subroutines.  I am doing this thing out of
compassion for everyone, not for money, for free. I suppose time waits
for no one, so that is why I will try and "wing it" in the here and now.

P.S. I ignored the 3 second delay on and off for the 4-bit sequence, but
I suppose it could be implementable later somehow, but it is not
extremely critical.

1997\03\08@032153 by Mike

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>
>Antti- appreciated.  You are the only one who gave me any concrete
>answers to start out with.

Some of us on the PIC group - like me, are lurkers - with far more experience
in other processors - like ATMEL's AT89C2051 or the HC11 series.

 Everyone is interested in plans, however, if
>I can't simplify the circuit into a PIC, then no one will be able to
>build the plans easily (which I will post anonymously at John Bedini's
>site (http://www.nidlink.com/~john1/tesla.html)!

That would be great - I think some people on the PIC group are a bit numb
to the possibilities of free energy using the humble PIC - when most other
peoples PIC projects are a rather moe complex in terms of data processing
requirements etc - The tasks you require can certainly be done without a
CPU - a cheap and simple selection of logic gates would suffice - but then
again it wouldn't be as interesting.

 The chip need not be
>ultra frequency stable, simply because the resonant frequency of the HOH
>atom has memory and that it approaches its own resonance, again, you
>would have to be looking at the patent to notice this.
>
>rem, it should not be too bad

Sounds a lot like the 'Meyer' fuel cell - resonance etc

>I will start out with some code I think will work.  Crawling before
>walking:

When you are done - I would be interested in purchasing (yes, capital
expenditure) the PIC driver and any specialised water interface devices.

Look forward to seeing some things on that web page...

Rgds

Mike

Some say there is no magic but, all things begin with thought then it becomes
academic, then some poor slob works out a practical way to implement all that
theory, this is called Engineering - for most people another form of magic.
                                                                      Massen

1997\03\08@141141 by Andy Kunz

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>... of the HOH atom ...

All my life I thought water was a molecule.  No wonder those cold fusion
researchers couldn't duplicate the Utah experiment - they were probably
thinking it was a molecule too!

<VBG>

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Montana Design - 409 S 6th St - Phillipsburg, NJ 08865
         Hardware & Software for Industry & R/C Hobbies
       "Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!"
==================================================================

1997\03\08@145408 by Vishram sarurkar

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On Sat, 8 Mar 1997, Andy Kunz wrote:

> >... of the HOH atom ...
>
> All my life I thought water was a molecule.  No wonder those cold fusion
> researchers couldn't duplicate the Utah experiment - they were probably
> thinking it was a molecule too!
>
> <VBG>
>
> Andy
>
> ==================================================================
> Andy Kunz - Montana Design - 409 S 6th St - Phillipsburg, NJ 08865
>           Hardware & Software for Industry & R/C Hobbies
>         "Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!"
> ==================================================================
>
great observation...
vishram.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is like an onion: you peel off layer after layer, then you find
there is nothing in it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

               +------------------------------------------+
               |            Vishram A. Sarurkar           |
               |           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^          |
               |     another hobbyist turned researcher   |
               |   slogging @ Indian Institute of Science |
               |               -----------                |
               |    e-mail:spam_OUTvishTakeThisOuTspamisu.iisc.ernet.in.        |
               |    Phone:+91 (080) 3092487.              |
               +------------------------------------------+

1997\03\08@150413 by Mike

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At 01:26 AM 9/03/97 +0500, you wrote:
>On Sat, 8 Mar 1997, Andy Kunz wrote:
>
>> >... of the HOH atom ...
>>
>> All my life I thought water was a molecule.  No wonder those cold fusion
>> researchers couldn't duplicate the Utah experiment - they were probably
>> thinking it was a molecule too!

Perhaps he was being a bit fluid (hehe) with his definitions and meant that
'atom'
is an indivisibe unit - that he actually ends up dividing - mmm.

Anyone actually read the Meyer Fuel Cell Patent, International Patent No. WO
89/12704
PCT/US89/02622 ?

Rgds

Mike
Perth, Western Australia

Some say there is no magic but, all things begin with thought then it becomes
academic, then some poor slob works out a practical way to implement all that
theory, this is called Engineering - for most people another form of magic.
                                                                      Massen

1997\03\08@165930 by sdattalo

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Hey guys and gals. FWIW, sonoluminescence is a real phenomenon.
I was suprised to find that somebody a couple offices over from
me is actually studying it. (But come to think of it, the guy
that got killed in that Cold Fusion experiment was over here
too...)

Sonoluminescence is the process by which water emits light when
it is bombarded with an energetic ultrasonic source. The exact
underlying physical mechanism is a mystery, though. I know of
no greater than unity processes associated with it (or with
anything for that matter).

----------------------

Antti,

I'm glad you spoke up to help Mr. Mail12707 (sorry for being,
presumptuous but he is mail). I think his desire to implement
vertical counters is the wrong solution. Instead, phase
accumulators are more appropriate.

To obtain an ultra stable 63.625kHz wave form, you have
two choices. First, you can hope that it is possible to write
an isochronous loop that executes in an integer number of
periods of the '84's crystal. Now considering the fact that
63625 = 5^3*509, I doubt very likely you'll find a crystal
satisfying this condition. The second choice is with a phase
locked loop. Take a look at National's CGS410 programmable
clock generator for example. This device implements a transfer
function:

f_out = f_in * N / (R * P)

where
1 < N < 16384
0 < R < 1024
0 < P < 17
and the maximum frequencies are:
f_in < 35MHz
f_out < 135MHz

So if you had an isochronous loop that executed in say
20 instructions = 20 * 4*T_osc seconds

and you wish this to increment the 63.625kHz counter once
per loop, then

1/63625 = 20 * 4 * T_osc
or
T_osc = .196464 usec
f_osc = 5.09 Mhz (remember 509 from above?)

Now if you had an ultra stable 10.0000000MHz ovenized crystal
as the frequency reference, then you could use the CGS410 and
have three degrees of freedom to choose the constants:

 5.09 = 10.0 * N/(R*P)
0.509 N = R * P
For example, you could choose N=100, R=509, and P = 1.

This solves the ultra-stability problem. The other two
problems (100Hz to 5kHz complementary square output and
the 3 second timer) are trivially solved with the phase
accumulators. I can post the phase accumulator article
(again) or send it to those who request it.



Scott


PS. Do you realize that with an ionized solution of H+ and
OH- ions you simultaneously have an acid and a base?

1997\03\08@174748 by Andy Kunz

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>Anyone actually read the Meyer Fuel Cell Patent, International Patent No. WO
>89/12704
>PCT/US89/02622 ?

Is there a way to get patent stuff online?

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Montana Design - 409 S 6th St - Phillipsburg, NJ 08865
         Hardware & Software for Industry & R/C Hobbies
       "Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!"
==================================================================

1997\03\09@003331 by mail12706

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Meyer's Patent really has nothing to do with the gas, since it is not
Brown's Gas.  Try Brown's patents.  In addition, the method of
accelerating Brown's Gas output is outlined in the Puharich patent NOT
the Meyer patent, nor any of the Meyer patents. Actually, Meyer
highlights the wrong principles, sorry.

1997\03\09@010736 by mail12706

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seriously, in addition, the Brown patent without actually mentioning it,
makes use of ORMEes in the form of Fe and Ni, which through the
electrolysis and the alkali metal hydroxide are placed in the high spin
state. Meyer never mentions the cruciality of using alkali metal
hydroxide and thereby excludes the need for Monatomic Material in the
splitter, and thereby skips the concept of a monatomic gas burning
(atomic heat providing) flame. Single atoms in an evenly balanced s-ORME
group provide a better electrode. Go read the Hudson Patent GB2219995
before you read up on electrolysis using ordinary T-metals.

Anyway, we are not here to speculate, that time is Over, and now we are
dealing with refining a finished product.  Speculaters should leave this
group and do their homework or either wait till the finished plans have
been posted on John Bedini's Tesla Switch page. Those who are willing to
take the problem of frequency generation at face value are those who
should reply.

This thing being already done, a single chip driver needs to be made at
the exact Puharich specified freq of 63.25khz on the msb of the nibble
counter, and 1/2,/1/4,1/8 summed up by four resistors on four pins
RB(0-3) to generate a single wire having the prescribed Puharich
frequencies.  There is no problem doing that.  The next problem is to
place the driver for the Tesla Switch as a decrement or subtract by R
routine in the same increment loop as the Puharich loop, and take the
output of that when it has count down to zero and toggle Tesla switch
pin RB(4) and complement RB(5).  Now RB(6) and RB(7) are inputs for two
pushbuttons which channel a bounceless switch routine that changes a
number R up or down, that number is the one that the one that should be
used by decrement or subtract routine above!  In this way, the Tesla
Switch frequency can be variable, while the Puharich switch is fixed.

Why am I integrating a Tesla Switch with a water splitter?  To ease up
on the battery, since most invariably, a battery will be used.  I am
sure you would do the same.

1997\03\09@223703 by Steve Hardy

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I wasn't going to touch this one, but since I just got about fifty
postings from Mr Mail12706 I think I'll have a go at it...


> From: ".....mail12706KILLspamspam@spam@pop.net" <mail12706spamKILLspamPOP.NET>
>
> I have not programmed microcontrollers since college, I am in the patent
> field, and I have just started to learn the RISC operations on the PIC.
> I wrote this letter to Scott Dattallo, however, I can open it up to all
> of you because it makes less harm for me if I put it out here on the big
> internet.

I haven't heard of Mr Dattallo, but his close relative Scott 'Sinewave'
Dattalo, on this very PICLIST, certainly has those arcane transforms
at his fingertips.  Although nowhere near his calibre, I might be able
to offer some assistance.

>
> Mr. Dattallo
>
> I heard you were a pro at PIC programming and wanted to get some
> guidance from you.
>
> I recently found out that a scientist discovered how to "split" water
> in 1987 and got a patent on it.

Is that 2H2O -> 2H2 + O2 or was that the nuclear one which went
H2O -> H.1/2O + H.1/2O = 2HBe? (Be (element #4) = 1/2 O (element #8)).
Danger! Danger! Beryllium (oxide) is a toxic substance!  Do not
cut open or incinerate.

> I tested it and let the gas into my
> engine through the air vacuum hose and I was Mad Max for quite some
> time.  Anyway, the special gas burns with an atomic flame and has
> overunity properties in itself (nuclear heat). Two overunity processes
> (cold fusion and
> sonoluminescence are suspected)!

I would advise against this because it tends to detonate (ping) really
badly.  Also, the large neutron flux tends to weaken and swell all the
ferrous material in the area, which is a problem if you've got one
of those old cast-iron donks.  The tritium levels in the exhaust are
also above the level allowed by the state of California (and just about
everywhere else as well).  However, if you really want to risk it, read
on...

{Quote hidden}

I hope you're not burned out from radiation sickness - better see a
doctor.

> the risc code etc.  So, here you come.  These vertical counters sounded

I was under the distinct impression that Microchip had only implemented
horizontal counters in the '84.  Close inspection of the 16C74 datasheet,
however, indicates that the horizontal counters experience a phase
change at -50 degrees C and turn into vertical counters.  The datasheet
specifically excludes conditions of high electron neutrino flux from
the guarantee of phase change, which may be a problem for you.

{Quote hidden}

No, the WDT is not an accurate timer.  Well, that's what Microchip want
you to _think_.  In fact, it is possible to trim it almost to rubidium
clock standards by attaching a miniature Tesla coil to pin RA4 and
feeding back the RF output via a molybdenum waveguide to the die surface.
This pulls in the WDT to a submultiple of the external clock frequency.

>
> The next thing I wanted to do was get a single pin and another pin as
> complement to generate an adjustable 100hz-5khz output to drive some
> more transistors (no 3 second rule).  Can all this be done on a PIC, and
> how would you suggest (or could you refer me to someone?  It is clear I
> could use a pushbutton switch on one input pin for adjusting the
> frequency up and one for adjusting the frequency down, which would
> involve two bounceless switch routines.

Depends how stable you want the output.  I would be well-nigh
impossible to generate really stable 63.625Kz and another (arbitrary)
frequency at the same time.  You _could_ if you chose the other frequency
to be a subharmonic of the 63.625KHz.  For example, the planet Jupiter
is a well known example of an over-unity radiator.  If you take the
resonance frequency of Jupiter with respect to Saturn, divide that by
pi, and add the number you first thought of, it always comes out to
13.  Hence make the upper bound of the other frequency 63.625KHz/13 =
4894.23Hz.  At the lower end, an instructive example is the number of
free-energy and perpetual motion patents that the multinational oil
companies have bought up and hidden away forever:  currently 629.  Thus
the lower frequency is 63.625KHz/629 = 101.15Hz.

>
>
> So far, we are talking about 4 pins summed up into one output, 2 more
> pins as output, and two input pins to two pushbutton switches.
>
> If I could reduce my circuit to one PIC chip, that would free my hands
> to make a presentation on the MHD electolysis cell, publicly, so that
> everyone could reproduce this.
>

MHD as in magneto-hydrodynamics?  I thought that was a bit passe --
everyone's into room-temp superconducting hall effect with double
overhead tesla coils now.  Anyhow, good luck with your project.


Regards,
SJH
Canberra, Australia

1997\03\10@034847 by efoc

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mail12706@pop.net wrote:
>
> I have not programmed microcontrollers since college, I am in the patent
> field, and I have just started to learn the RISC operations on the PIC.
> I wrote this letter to Scott Dattallo, however, I can open it up to all
> of you because it makes less harm for me if I put it out here on the
> (Mighty big snip)


Sure No problem with inturupts and the timers...... Give me a call


--

Cheers Peter ..........

==================================
New Ideas come from those who
didn't know it wasn't possible
==================================

1997\03\10@165321 by Martin McCormick

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       I'm going fission for the rest of the day.

Martin McCormick

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