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'Overclocking PICs ie 16F84'
1998\04\01@113502 by jims

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I want code to run at 6Mhz, and have been using 10Mhz PICs OK.
I am about to try 4Mhz PICs (cheaper!!) and try them at 6Mhz.

Anyone been there before ????

You used to be able to clock up 486 CPUs !

Jim Stewart
spam_OUTjimsTakeThisOuTspamkingswayscotland.demon.co.uk

1998\04\01@123511 by Rickard Gunie

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Jim Stewart wrote:

> I want code to run at 6Mhz, and have been using 10Mhz PICs OK.
> I am about to try 4Mhz PICs (cheaper!!) and try them at 6Mhz.

My pic-pong game is running perfectly @ 12MHz on a 4MHz PIC16F84, so
6MHz should not be a problem. (I had some problem when using the 16C84
at that speed, but 16F84 works just fine)

Regards,
Rickard GunŽe

1998\04\01@125342 by ogerio Odriozola

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I remember a long time ago someone comented on this, think it was Andy.
Aparently all 16F84 (was 16C84 at the time) come from the same waffer, but
are tested or clasified for 10 mhz. That was supposed to be one of the
reasons 10 mhz is more expensive, because of the clasification cost.
If this is true, theres no reason why an untested 4 mhz chip could not work
at 6, 10, or higher mhz, but then again, it may not, its just certified to
4 mhz.
For one shot projects or very small quantity I guess its ok to test several
chips, but for more than a handfull chips its definetly too risky.

Rogerio





.....e96rgKILLspamspam@spam@EFD.LTH.SE on 01/04/98 11:32:15 AM

Please respond to PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU

To:   .....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Rogerio Odriozola/MTY/TVA/Dataflux)
Subject:  Re: Overclocking PICs ie 16F84




Jim Stewart wrote:
> I want code to run at 6Mhz, and have been using 10Mhz PICs OK.
> I am about to try 4Mhz PICs (cheaper!!) and try them at 6Mhz.
My pic-pong game is running perfectly @ 12MHz on a 4MHz PIC16F84, so
6MHz should not be a problem. (I had some problem when using the 16C84
at that speed, but 16F84 works just fine)
Regards,
Rickard Gun?e

1998\04\01@125528 by Richard Nowak

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It depends on what the fallout is e.g., temperature, voltage, setup time,
hold time, etc. and what your application requires.

Don't forget that on a particularly good day everyhing is coming up 20 MHz
and if you order a 4 MHz part you will get a 20 MHz part marked as 4 MHz.

So the third factor would be luck.

Rich

At 01:25 AM 4/2/98 +0100, you wrote:
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1998\04\01@125533 by Bill Kennedy

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>I want code to run at 6Mhz, and have been using 10Mhz PICs OK.
>I am about to try 4Mhz PICs (cheaper!!) and try them at 6Mhz.
>
>Anyone been there before ????
>
>You used to be able to clock up 486 CPUs !
>
>Jim Stewart
>jimsspamspam_OUTkingswayscotland.demon.co.uk
>
Jim,
   I "overclocked" a 16c84/04 to 10MHz with no problems.  I called
Microchip to inquire what the differences were and was told simply that the
/04 parts are only guarenteed to 4MHz and if I wanted reliability to go with
the 10MHz parts.  From what they said, it sounds like some will and some
won't work depending on the lot they come from.

Bill Kennedy
Rochester, NY

1998\04\01@153654 by Harold Hallikainen

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On Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:50:39 -0600 Rogerio Odriozola
<@spam@Rogerio_OdriozolaKILLspamspamTVAMTY.COM.MX> writes:
>I remember a long time ago someone comented on this, think it was
>Andy.
>Aparently all 16F84 (was 16C84 at the time) come from the same waffer,
>but
>are tested or clasified for 10 mhz. That was supposed to be one of the
>reasons 10 mhz is more expensive, because of the clasification cost.
>If this is true, theres no reason why an untested 4 mhz chip could not
>work
>at 6, 10, or higher mhz, but then again, it may not, its just
>certified to
>4 mhz.
>For one shot projects or very small quantity I guess its ok to test
>several
>chips, but for more than a handfull chips its definetly too risky.



       Similarly, we run 16c74a chips at 16 MHz.  When we ordered OTP
chips, our purchasing department didn't specify a speed (possibly my
fault) and a bunch of 4 MHz parts went into product.  They all worked
fine and have continued to work fine in the field.  We now order 20 MHz
parts.
       From the manufacturer's point of view, it seems that as their
process improves, ALL their chips would be able to do 20 MHz.  If they
mark them all for 20 MHz, there could end up being a shortage of the
cheaper 4 MHz parts, possibly increasing their price to above that of the
more abundant 20 MHz parts.  I wonder if they just set all the ones that
pass 20 MHz in a bin and mark them for whatever they have orders for.

Harold

1998\04\01@160215 by Alessandro Zummo

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Il 01-Apr-98, Rickard Gunie scrisse:

>> I want code to run at 6Mhz, and have been using 10Mhz PICs OK.
>> I am about to try 4Mhz PICs (cheaper!!) and try them at 6Mhz.

> My pic-pong game is running perfectly @ 12MHz on a 4MHz PIC16F84, so
> 6MHz should not be a problem. (I had some problem when using the 16C84
> at that speed, but 16F84 works just fine)

PIC16*F*84 is rated up to 10mhz.. you've overclocked it only
by 2 mhz.

--

  - *Alex* -

 http://freepage.logicom.it/azummo/

1998\04\01@170343 by Alexandre Guimaraes

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>        From the manufacturer's point of view, it seems that as their
>process improves, ALL their chips would be able to do 20 MHz.  If they
>mark them all for 20 MHz, there could end up being a shortage of the
>cheaper 4 MHz parts, possibly increasing their price to above that of the
>more abundant 20 MHz parts.  I wonder if they just set all the ones that
>pass 20 MHz in a bin and mark them for whatever they have orders for.
>
>Harold



   How do they do this kind of tests on OTP parts that come programmed with
blank memory and RC oscilattor ?? They have a different point to inject the
clock ? Would just that be enough to check that the oscilattor would
start-up at that  frequency ? That got me curious about the selection
process. I have used 4mhz parts ate 16 mhz also and had no apparent
problems. I prefer to use the correctly rated parts anyhow, if it fails it
is not my fault :-)

Best regards,
Alexandre Guimaraes
KILLspamalexgKILLspamspamiis.com.br

1998\04\01@173525 by ck \The Notes Guy\ Dickinson

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On Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:43:07 +0200, you wrote:

>Il 01-Apr-98, Rickard Gunie scrisse:
>
>>> I want code to run at 6Mhz, and have been using 10Mhz PICs OK.
>>> I am about to try 4Mhz PICs (cheaper!!) and try them at 6Mhz.
>
>> My pic-pong game is running perfectly @ 12MHz on a 4MHz PIC16F84, so
>> 6MHz should not be a problem. (I had some problem when using the 16C84
>> at that speed, but 16F84 works just fine)
>
> PIC16*F*84 is rated up to 10mhz.. you've overclocked it only
> by 2 mhz.

PIC 16F84 is available in both 10 and 4 MHz versions.  Whether there
is actually any physical difference besides labelling and testing
remains to be seen.

- Rick "See the latest Digi-Key catalog, page 132" Dickinson

   Enterprise ArchiTechs     | Views expressed on topics unrelated
 http://www.eArchiTechs.com  | to messaging are not those of my
NoSpam eMail:RemoveMErtdTakeThisOuTspamnotesguy.com | company, and may not even be mine.

1998\04\01@210619 by Hardy e/ou Rafael Pinto

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-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Guimaraes <spamBeGonealexgspamBeGonespamiis.com.br>
To: TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU <RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Quarta-feira, 1 de Abril de 1998 19:05
Subject: Re: Overclocking PICs ie 16F84


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with
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   All ICs must have "testability" systems. Sometimes, they're internal
pads that you inject some signal and then watch the signal flow; mostly,
they use the exteriorized pads (aka the pins!). You can do it by "measuring"
the critical path and creating some signals that excite them. The next step
is to increase the frequency until the signal becomes unstable or wrong. The
signal may, or may not, have some correlation with IC functions, since
you're only trying to excite the critical paths.
   4 MHz chips really come from the same waffer of the 10MHz ones. It's
just some statistical testings that says "This lot works on 10MHZ, all the
rest works 4MHz". The untested lots also become "4MHz" chips, since it is
the minimum that the production process guarantees.



   Rafael Pinto

1998\04\02@010026 by Rickard Gunie

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Alessandro Zummo wrote:

>  PIC16*F*84 is rated up to 10mhz.. you've overclocked it only
>  by 2 mhz.

Well, there is two versions, one 10MHz version, and one 4MHz version, it
was the 4MHz version that was the subject of this discussion.

Regards,
 Rickard

1998\04\02@050334 by Alessandro Zummo

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Il 02-Apr-98, Rick \"The Notes Guy\" Dickinson scrisse:

>>> at that speed, but 16F84 works just fine)
>>
>> PIC16*F*84 is rated up to 10mhz.. you've overclocked it only
>> by 2 mhz.

> PIC 16F84 is available in both 10 and 4 MHz versions.  Whether there
> is actually any physical difference besides labelling and testing
> remains to be seen.

Sorry. I've readed it on my PIC16/17 Microcontroller Databook (in
the first page of the 16f84 datasheet no 4mhz parts are mentioned)
.. but it seems to be wrong in more than one point..

--

  - *Alex* -

 http://freepage.logicom.it/azummo/

1998\04\02@061506 by Yura Galayda

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In previous message, Alessandro Zummo said:
> Il 02-Apr-98, Rick \"The Notes Guy\" Dickinson scrisse:
> >>> at that speed, but 16F84 works just fine)
> >> PIC16*F*84 is rated up to 10mhz.. you've overclocked it only
> >> by 2 mhz.
> > PIC 16F84 is available in both 10 and 4 MHz versions.  Whether there
> > is actually any physical difference besides labelling and testing
> > remains to be seen.
> Sorry. I've readed it on my PIC16/17 Microcontroller Databook (in
> the first page of the 16f84 datasheet no 4mhz parts are mentioned)
> .. but it seems to be wrong in more than one point..

PIC16F84-04 work fine at 16MHz ;-)

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1998\04\02@071603 by Ints Mikelsons

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Not all. I've 2 pics, that won't work well.

Yura Galayda wrote:

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