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PICList Thread
'Flash Memory'
1998\08\04@163409 by Gabriel Aurilio de Oliveira

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   Hi,

   I'm a beginner in the Pic microcontroller world and I have a little
question about Flash Memory:
   What's the difference between the Flash program memory of the
PIC16F84 and the EEPRON program memory of PIC16C84?

   Thank's for help.

   Gabriel AurŽlio de Oliveira

1998\08\04@171920 by Andrew Warren

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Gabriel Aurilio de Oliveira <spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> What's the difference between the Flash program memory of the
> PIC16F84 and the EEPRON program memory of PIC16C84?

Gabriel:

There is no difference except the name.

-Andy


=== Andrew Warren - .....fastfwdKILLspamspam@spam@ix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1998\08\04@174537 by John Bellini

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I don't think that is correct.  Flash you program in blocks.  You can
swap out blocks of your code and insert a new one on the fly (from
EEPROM or whatever) while EEPROM you can only write one byte at time.
Flash is faster as well I believe.  They are not the same thing.

{Original Message removed}

1998\08\04@174948 by tsk3000

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Andrew Warren wrote:
>
> Gabriel Aurilio de Oliveira <PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:
>
> > What's the difference between the Flash program memory of the
> > PIC16F84 and the EEPRON program memory of PIC16C84?
>
> Gabriel:
>
> There is no difference except the name.
That's not entirely true.  I don't know for sure, but, if the 'C84
is EPROM, and the 'F84 is EEPROM, then the 'C84 is UV erasable, and
the 'F84 is Electricly Erasable.  The difference is about 10
minutes.  :)  The UV-Erasable types need to be exposed to UV light
(in an EPROM eraser) for about 10 minutes.  The FLASH version will
be erased electricly by your programmer in just a few milliseconds.

Cheers,
--
~Keith
.....tsk3000KILLspamspam.....Prodigy.Net
ICQ #: 15590177
http://pages.prodigy.net/tsk3000/

1998\08\04@182110 by Andrew Warren

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Gabriel Aurilio de Oliveira <EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> > What's the difference between the Flash program memory of the
> > PIC16F84 and the EEPRON program memory of PIC16C84?

I replied:

> There is no difference except the name.

and John Bellini <PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> responded:

> I don't think that is correct.  Flash you program in blocks.  You
> can swap out blocks of your code and insert a new one on the fly
> (from EEPROM or whatever) while EEPROM you can only write one byte
> at time. Flash is faster as well I believe.  They are not the same
> thing.

   Right, John... But the question wasn't "What's the difference
   between EEPROM and 'real' Flash memory?"; it was "What's the
   difference between the EEPROM program memory in the 16C84 and
   the so-called Flash program memory in the 16F84?"

   The answer to THAT question -- the one that was asked -- is as
   I've stated:  There is no difference except the name.

later, Keith Burzinski <@spam@tsk3000KILLspamspamProdigy.Net> wrote:

> I don't know for sure, but, if the 'C84 is EPROM, and the 'F84 is
> EEPROM, then the 'C84 is UV erasable, and the 'F84 is Electricly
> Erasable.

   Again, this is a true statement.  However, the 'C84's program
   memory is NOT UV-erasable EPROM; it's electrically-erasable
   EEPROM.

   I don't mean to pick on you, Keith, but it might be a good idea
   to read questions more carefully -- or at least to have a passing
   familiarity with the chips under discussion -- before responding
   to the list and running the risk of confusing someone.

   -Andy


=== Andrew Warren - KILLspamfastfwdKILLspamspamix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1998\08\05@130239 by unthiti Patchararungruang

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On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Gabriel Aurilio de Oliveira wrote:

>
>     I'm a beginner in the Pic microcontroller world and I have a little
> question about Flash Memory:
>     What's the difference between the Flash program memory of the
> PIC16F84 and the EEPRON program memory of PIC16C84?
>

16F84 has internal RAM slightly larger than C84. Moreover, in program
time, there is a different programming control bit but I am not sure what
its name is.

Sunthiti Patchararungruang

1998\08\05@150625 by wouter van ooijen

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For me none at all.
The only differences between the c and f versions are
- sign of the power-up timer enable bit
- amount of RAM
- code protection (and ease of defeating the code protection).
So get a 16f84, unless you can get a 16c84 much cheaper.

Wouter.

----------
{Quote hidden}

1998\08\05@163531 by RGLuz

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> - code protection (and ease of defeating the code protection).
it is possible to defeat?
on which the C or F?????

1998\08\05@190022 by tsk3000

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Andrew Warren wrote:
>
> later, Keith Burzinski <TakeThisOuTtsk3000EraseMEspamspam_OUTProdigy.Net> wrote:
>
> > I don't know for sure, but, if the 'C84 is EPROM, and the 'F84 is
> > EEPROM, then the 'C84 is UV erasable, and the 'F84 is Electricly
> > Erasable.
>
>     Again, this is a true statement.  However, the 'C84's program
>     memory is NOT UV-erasable EPROM; it's electrically-erasable
>     EEPROM.
>
>     I don't mean to pick on you, Keith, but it might be a good idea
>     to read questions more carefully -- or at least to have a passing
>     familiarity with the chips under discussion -- before responding
>     to the list and running the risk of confusing someone.
>
>     -Andy
Alright everyone.  I didn't know that both were electricly
erasable.  I thought that the 'C84 was EPROM; I didn't realize that
it was in fact EEPROM and the other FLASH.

I'm used to working with the 16C5x series, and they're all PROM or
EPROM.  When I saw the 'C' in "16C84" the first thing that came to
mind was EPROM.

I apologize for the confusion.

Cheers,
--
~Keith
RemoveMEtsk3000spamTakeThisOuTProdigy.Net
ICQ #: 15590177
http://pages.prodigy.net/tsk3000/

1998\08\08@100312 by Alex Torres

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>I don't think that is correct.  Flash you program in blocks.  You can
>swap out blocks of your code and insert a new one on the fly (from
>EEPROM or whatever) while EEPROM you can only write one byte at time.
>Flash is faster as well I believe.  They are not the same thing.

F84 is NOT a true Flash memory !!! It is possible to write any program
location without erasing.
In this way C84 and F84 have NO differences.

==================================
Alex Torres, Kharkov, Ukraine (exUSSR)
E-Mail: altorEraseMEspam.....geocities.com
2:461/28 FidoNet
Home Page: www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6311
ICQ UIN  11083325

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