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PICList Thread
'Ceramic resonators on 16c74'
1997\03\15@000737 by Harold Hallikainen

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       Does anyone have experience on using ceramic resonators with
built-in capacitors on the 16c74?  We're using a 16 MHz resonator with
the oscillator in the HS mode and find that about 1/3 of the resonators
don't oscillate.  Most resonator datasheets don't specify units to work
with the pic chips.
       Any ideas appreciated!

Thanks!

Harold

1997\03\15@005912 by Harri Suomalainen

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You are on my bounche-back list.
Use another account/site to reach me.
You probably annoy me too.

1997\03\15@111423 by Alex Bogdan

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Harold Hallikainen wrote:
>
>         Does anyone have experience on using ceramic resonators with
> built-in capacitors on the 16c74?  We're using a 16 MHz resonator with
> the oscillator in the HS mode and find that about 1/3 of the resonators
> don't oscillate.  Most resonator datasheets don't specify units to work
> with the pic chips.
>         Any ideas appreciated!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Harold


Hi Harold:
Just Yesterday I've tried muRata's CSA4.00MG011 ceramic resonator with
PIC16C84-04p! I used two 680pF caps and two resistors (4.7k and 10k) as
it suggested in the application note. Everything worked just fine. You
should get muRata Piezo-Electric Devices catalog No. P-05-A. Very useful
application notes are in there!
Alex

1997\03\15@122521 by Harold M Hallikainen

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On Sat, 15 Mar 1997 11:02:49 -0800 Alex Bogdan <spam_OUTabogdanTakeThisOuTspamPASSPORT.CA>
writes:
{Quote hidden}

       Thanks for the comments!  As I recall in the Microchip
Application Notes, they used a muRata resonator with external capacitors.
I SHOULD review that a bit more closely now that I have the muRata
catalog.  Anyway, to save board space in a very small product, I've used
resonators with internal capacitors and no resistors.  It (of course)
worked in all the prototypes, but in production about 1/3 of the
resonators are not starting.  I was hoping someone has found a resonator
with capacitors that works reliably with no other components.  Maybe not!
       Again, thanks for the comments!

Harold

1997\03\15@141851 by Andy Kunz

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>        Thanks for the comments!  As I recall in the Microchip
>Application Notes, they used a muRata resonator with external capacitors.
> I SHOULD review that a bit more closely now that I have the muRata
>catalog.  Anyway, to save board space in a very small product, I've used
>resonators with internal capacitors and no resistors.  It (of course)
>worked in all the prototypes, but in production about 1/3 of the
>resonators are not starting.  I was hoping someone has found a resonator
>with capacitors that works reliably with no other components.  Maybe not!

Good luck finding resonators with internal caps at those speeds.  If you DO
find one, please let me know.

I love Murata/Eries resonators, especially since they're about 50% the
Panasonic price!

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Montana Design - 409 S 6th St - Phillipsburg, NJ 08865
         Hardware & Software for Industry & R/C Hobbies
       "Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!"
==================================================================

1997\03\15@152400 by brooke

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Harold M Hallikainen wrote:

> >Harold Hallikainen wrote:
> >>
> >>Does anyone have experience on using ceramic resonators with
> >> built-in capacitors on the 16c74?  We're using a 16 MHz resonator
> >with the oscillator in the HS mode and find that about 1/3 of the
> >resonators don't oscillate.  Most resonator datasheets don't specify units to
> >work with the pic chips.


Harold:

HP makes a network analyzer (E5100A) designed to measure reasonators and
crystals.
The result of this measurement is an equivalent circuit for the
reasonator or crystal.
Included in the equivalent circuit are resistors.  The PIC chips could
also be characterized for the negative resistance looking into the
oscillator pins.  Knowing
the -R of the PIC, a specifications could be made for the +R of the
reasonator.  Maybe
Microchip will specify there parts so that the reasonator could be
specified.

Have Fun,
Brooke

1997\03\16@080638 by mike

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In message  <.....19970314.205554.11111.1.HaroldHallikainenKILLspamspam@spam@juno.com>> PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU writes:
>         Does anyone have experience on using ceramic resonators with
> built-in capacitors on the 16c74?  We're using a 16 MHz resonator with
> the oscillator in the HS mode and find that about 1/3 of the resonators
> don't oscillate.  Most resonator datasheets don't specify units to work
> with the pic chips.
>         Any ideas appreciated!
>

Harold,


I have been using them with no problems on a 16C73. However, I seem
to remember a few weeks ago that someone (was it Myke) mentioned
he was having problems with a 16C73A; something about the
capacitance of the PIC osc pins being too high.

Maybe someone can remember better than me ...


Mike

1997\03\16@155126 by Robert Lunn

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> I SHOULD review that a bit more closely now that I have the muRata
>catalog.  Anyway, to save board space in a very small product, I've used
>resonators with internal capacitors and no resistors.  It (of course)
>worked in all the prototypes, but in production about 1/3 of the
>resonators are not starting.  I was hoping someone has found a resonator
>with capacitors that works reliably with no other components.  Maybe not!

       Harold, try putting a 10 Megohm resistor across the resonator.
       This _may_ get your failing units oscillating, and at least get
       your production back on track while you look for your preferred
       solution.

___Bob

1997\03\16@193453 by myke predko

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>In message  <.....19970314.205554.11111.1.HaroldHallikainenKILLspamspam.....juno.com>> > EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU writes:
>>         Does anyone have experience on using ceramic resonators with
>> built-in capacitors on the 16c74?  We're using a 16 MHz resonator with
>> the oscillator in the HS mode and find that about 1/3 of the resonators
>> don't oscillate.  Most resonator datasheets don't specify units to work
>> with the pic chips.
>>         Any ideas appreciated!
>>
>
>Harold,
>
>
>I have been using them with no problems on a 16C73. However, I seem
>to remember a few weeks ago that someone (was it Myke) mentioned
>he was having problems with a 16C73A; something about the
>capacitance of the PIC osc pins being too high.
>
>Maybe someone can remember better than me ...

Yeah, it was me.  I was using ECS Resonators (which typically have 30 pF
built in) and I couldn't get 12 MHz, 16 MHz, or 20 MHz Resonators to work.

I haven't tried ones without internal caps yet and added my own external
resistance.

As for the suggestion of putting a 10 Meg Resistor across the resonator (I
presume the OSC1/OSC2) it doesn't work (at least not with the ECS Parts).

myke

"Some people say that foreign cars handle best, while others say domestic.
For my money, nothing handles as well as a rental car." - P.J. O'Rourke

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