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PICList Thread
'C programmers for PIC'
1998\12\14@005239 by Dave Celsnak

picon face
Hello everyone,
I've been using the PicBasicPro Compiler for use with the PIC.

Now, I'd like to find a job in the 'real world', and all the employers
need C, ot C++ experience.... if they only knew how proficient I am with
the compiler of my choice :)

Well, I'm looking for suggestions on a C or C++ compiler for use with my
Epic Programmer.  Beginner stuff please, it is time once again to blink
some LED's on and off again.

Thanks,
Dave Celsnak
spam_OUTdaveTakeThisOuTspamteamrip.com

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1998\12\14@012153 by Tjaart van der Walt

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Dave Celsnak wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
> I've been using the PicBasicPro Compiler for use with the PIC.
>
> Now, I'd like to find a job in the 'real world', and all the employers
> need C, ot C++ experience.... if they only knew how proficient I am with
> the compiler of my choice :)
>
> Well, I'm looking for suggestions on a C or C++ compiler for use with my
> Epic Programmer.  Beginner stuff please, it is time once again to blink
> some LED's on and off again.

Are you willing to spend a few bob? You pretty much get what
you pay for. I am admittedly subjective, but MPC works for me.
You want :
1) One compiler for all the PICs. No modules or upgrades to
  confuse you.
2) Good support. Presence on the PIClist is even better.
3) Stability. Weekly upgrades & bugfixes make me nervous.
4) Tight code.

Check out http://www.bytecraft.com

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1998\12\14@084818 by Andy Kunz

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Tjaart recommended the Bytecraft MPC compiler.  It's very good.  Another
option (with all the same features he listed) is the HiTech PICC compiler
http://www.htsoft.com/picc

His point about "you get what you pay for" is very important.  Especially
if you end up working as a consultant rather than an employee.

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\12\14@171439 by Joseph

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> Now, I'd like to find a job in the 'real world', and all the employers
> need C, ot C++ experience.... if they only knew how proficient I am with
> the compiler of my choice :)

I'm curious, how much does a job like that pay? I'm in need of a career
change. :(

{Quote hidden}

1998\12\15@025822 by Dr. Imre Bartfai

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Hi,
yet another option is the CCS compiler. It produces very tight code, and
every penny wort. Nevertheless, it costs $99 contrary to another items.
Imre


On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Andy Kunz wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1998\12\15@035531 by Vance Gloster

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Hi Joseph,

Here's the deal.  There are at every point in time one or two "hot" skills
that are in high demand.  These pay extremely well.  But then things
change, and a different skill becomes the hot one.  When I started working
in computers in around 1980 I wanted to do software but no one would hire
me unless I also could do analog and digital design because (as one
prospective employer put it) "I think this software thing is just a FAD!"

Then in the early 1980s a hot skill was doing assembler for embedded
micros.  I ended up doing lots of different chips.  6805, Z80, TMS7000,
8085, COPS, PIC, etc.  Then the hot skill became doing C on personal
computers.  Then C in a windowing environment (Windows, MAC, or XWindows).

These days the biggest hot skill (from what I can see) is C++ for some
specialized areas of Windows.  I work in OLE and MFC and ATL (you are
measured by the three-letter acronyms you can put on your resume).  I've
worked on a number of the Norton products (including Norton AntiVirus), and
these days I'm a consultant doing stuff for Microcadam, a CAD company that
is owned jointly by IBM and Kawasaki.

Companies like Symantec (who own Peter Norton Computing) consider
programming in C a minimal entry-level skill.  People get hired in as QA
(testing) people where they need to write programs to test the software
products.  Some other companies also do this through the tech support
department.  After a year or so people are considered for being moved into
a developer position.

I do an occasional embedded micro job, but there is not nearly as much
action in that area as there was during the 80s.  And that tends to bid
down salaries.  Also a lot of the companies I have done work for have
reduced or eliminated their Mac projects.  :-(

Good luck!

Vance Gloster          Public opinion exists only where there are
EraseMEvancespam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTeni.net                              no ideas. -Oscar Wilde

{Original Message removed}

1998\12\15@044349 by keithh

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Dr. Imre Bartfai wrote:

> the CCS compiler. It produces very tight code,

No, it doesn't!

I'm no compiler writer but I understand assembly
and I can see glaring inefficiencies.
Just look at the code it produces!
By that time you've been suckered into buying it.

> and every penny wort.

Look, if someone offered to sell you _anything_ for
a fraction of the price of similar products,
you'd be highly suspicious.

1998\12\15@075818 by Dr. Imre Bartfai

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Hi,

maybe, you have right. However:

On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Keith Howell wrote:

> Dr. Imre Bartfai wrote:
>
> > the CCS compiler. It produces very tight code,
compared to that of generated by PicBasic Pro.
>
> No, it doesn't!
>
> I'm no compiler writer but I understand assembly
> and I can see glaring inefficiencies.
They can be influenced by setting the compiler (directives, clever defines
etc.)
> Just look at the code it produces!
> By that time you've been suckered into buying it.
>
> > and every penny wort.
>
> Look, if someone offered to sell you _anything_ for
> a fraction of the price of similar products,
> you'd be highly suspicious.
The difference is a point of view. As a poor man I must look at
cost/benefit ratio, not only to maximize simply the power.
>
>
Regards,
Imre

1998\12\15@171720 by Peter Schultz

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>KH> Look, if someone offered to sell you _anything_ for
>KH> a fraction of the price of similar products,
>KH> you'd be highly suspicious.

I would turn this upside done, according my experiments.
I'd be really suspicious also if something is too expensive or say
overpriced.
( Example Ford Expedition vs. Lincoln Navigator )

Cheers,
PeterS

1998\12\15@174026 by Walter Banks

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> >KH> Look, if someone offered to sell you _anything_ for
> >KH> a fraction of the price of similar products,
> >KH> you'd be highly suspicious.
>
> I would turn this upside done, according my experiments.
> I'd be really suspicious also if something is too expensive or say
> overpriced.


There are two real issues for compiler tools.  The first one is there
any financial benefit for a specific compiler choice. Will the cost
of the compiler save a larger amount of development cost including
application support from the compiler vendor.

The second issue is feature related. A low cost compiler that does
the job for a hobby application may very well not be sufficient
for someone who wants to do source level debugging and
code coverage. Portability between many platforms in a high
level language is an alternatine for some to second sourcing.
Optimization is a real issue for high volume, time critial
or EMF sensitive applications.


Walter Banks

1998\12\15@183003 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   Here's the deal.  There are at every point in time one or two "hot" skills
   that are in high demand.  These pay extremely well.  But then things
   change, and a different skill becomes the hot one.

Yeah.  There are plenty of "warm" skills that will keep you gainfully
employed at a pretty decent salary.  I've been writing computer-networking
related software since the mid-to-late 70s, and it's only been "hot"
recently.  Sometimes it's hard to get entry-level positions in such areas,
though (sometimes it's hard to find entry level positions, period.)  When
an area becomes "hot", schools churn out so many grads at such a rate that
that becomes what recruiters are looking for.


   When I started working in computers in around 1980 I wanted to do
   software but no one would hire me unless I also could do analog and
   digital design because (as one prospective employer put it) "I think
   this software thing is just a FAD!"

When I tried to do a computer network for my college EE senior design
project, I was told that it was "too much a software project."  Hah!
(laughing last, as it were...)

BillW
cisco

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