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PICList Thread
'Angle sensors'
1998\07\10@080643 by meida

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Does anyone knows where can i get angle sensors? I want to do a alarm
for my car and i need them to sense when someone tries to lift it.

TIA

Antonio Almeida

1998\07\10@082055 by Andy Kunz

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At 12:33 PM 7/10/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Does anyone knows where can i get angle sensors? I want to do a alarm
>for my car and i need them to sense when someone tries to lift it.

You may use a ADXL02 from Analog Devices, or you can get a sensor from
spam_OUTskipTakeThisOuTspamrcboats.com that is used in their APC-3.

I've used both and they are each very good.  The ADLX02 is easier to
implement into a PIC design, but costs more.

Andy


==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\07\10@092729 by Peter L. Peres

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On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, [iso-8859-1] António José Almeida wrote:

> Does anyone knows where can i get angle sensors? I want to do a alarm
> for my car and i need them to sense when someone tries to lift it.
>
> TIA
>
> Antonio Almeida

Use a reed or proximity switch attached to the suspension of a wheel or a
pendulum switch. The latter is used in bicycle alarms and such and also in
house alarm systems. Ask for a motion sensor at the alarm system gear
provider.

The proximity sensor on the wheel suspension is more immune against false
triggers by people leaning against the car etc, but won't detect a towing
truck that pulls the car up its ramp. But then, you did not ask about
towing trucks.

Unfortunately, most alarms use the motion sensor, and they go off from
passing garbage trucks (heavy Diesels), wind gusts and thunder. Do the
world a favor and put a short timer on the horn <G> if the motion stops
soon.

Real angular sensors are expensive, unless you want just horizontality.
This is usually detected by a dish-style mercury switch. I have seen such
a system fail miserably on a car with weak suspension, that was parked 1/2
on a curb. Any passing vehicle and wind gust set the alarm off.

Peter

1998\07\10@093958 by norm

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If you're looking for a tilt sensor, try Spectron in New York. They make a
variety of electrolytic PC mount single and dual axis tilt sensors.  I
don't have a web address for them, but their phone number is: 516-582-5600.

Norm
----------

> Subject: Angle sensors
> Date: Friday, July 10, 1998 6:33 AM
>
> Does anyone knows where can i get angle sensors? I want to do a alarm
> for my car and i need them to sense when someone tries to lift it.
>
> TIA
>
> Antonio Almeida

1998\07\10@111022 by Andy Kunz

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>Real angular sensors are expensive, unless you want just horizontality.
>This is usually detected by a dish-style mercury switch. I have seen such
>a system fail miserably on a car with weak suspension, that was parked 1/2
>on a curb. Any passing vehicle and wind gust set the alarm off.

Only if "expensive" means > $10, you are right.

Andy


==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\07\10@123658 by Timothy D. Gray

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The best car alarms bounce a ultrasonic signal off of the road and measure
distance to ground at the ends, this eliminates the "park on a hill and
cant arm the alarm" syndrome. Otherwise, if you dont mind never being able
to park on hills use a simple "tilt" sensor from a pinball machine.. A
metal plate with a circular hole and a metal wand extending through it.
when the car is tilted (Or impacted) it makes contact.

On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, [iso-8859-1] António José Almeida wrote:

> Does anyone knows where can i get angle sensors? I want to do a alarm
> for my car and i need them to sense when someone tries to lift it.
>
> TIA
>
> Antonio Almeida
>

1998\07\10@130245 by Bob Blick

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I've seen car alarms that had a piezo buzzer disc with a "heavy" machine
screw soldered to the disc. If the car is jiggled, the piezo produces lots
of voltage.

The other edge of the piezo disc was fixed, so the weight had a bit of
leverage.

Probably works great until you hit a pothole in the road and it sheds the
ceramic coating...

-Bob

1998\07\10@140352 by Peter L. Peres

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On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Timothy D. Gray wrote:

> The best car alarms bounce a ultrasonic signal off of the road and measure
> distance to ground at the ends, this eliminates the "park on a hill and
> cant arm the alarm" syndrome. Otherwise, if you dont mind never being able

Jesus. What happens if there is dirt & ice under the car ? Or don't cars
that can afford such sonar arrays park in places that are unclean,
un-snow-plowed, and unrich ? ;)

Peter

1998\07\10@142117 by David VanHorn

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>Jesus. What happens if there is dirt & ice under the car ? Or don't cars
>that can afford such sonar arrays park in places that are unclean,
>un-snow-plowed, and unrich ? ;)
>
>Peter


Some people can't accept that there are limits to what can be done.

You can measure the tilt angle when ignition is turned off, and take any
variation beyond a few degrees as a trigger..

Towing companies don't give a shit, they will take it anyway, and they
might not be as careful as they normally are about not damaging it.

Wheel thieves will crib underneath, let the air out of the tires, and then
take the wheels.  The alarm probably won't sense this.


Alarms DETECT a breakin, psychology is what will help prevent a breakin.

1998\07\10@154123 by Peter L. Peres

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On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Andy Kunz wrote:

> >Real angular sensors are expensive, unless you want just horizontality.
> >This is usually detected by a dish-style mercury switch. I have seen such
> >a system fail miserably on a car with weak suspension, that was parked 1/2
> >on a curb. Any passing vehicle and wind gust set the alarm off.
>
> Only if "expensive" means > $10, you are right.

A $10 angle sensor that costs 5 times more than the $2.5 PIC that is
supposed to be the core of the circuit is *expensive*, at least in the way
I see things. Especially with rather good car alarms costing about $100
around everywhere.

The proximity sensor is industral grade, and I think it costs about $5 in
100's, and it's the only way to sense whether the thing is being lifted
off the pavement, with the wheels hanging (the rear wheels usually, as
that's where the hand brake acts). It's also imprevious to canted parking,
ice, and mud. A switch embedded by the car maker in the rear wheel
suspension to detect pull as opposed to push would solve this problem
nicely (wishful thinking for now).

For the proximity sensor all you have to do is screw it to the chassis
just above the satellite axles on the chassis on a spacer tall enough to
bring it within sense proximity of the axle, while paying attention to its
not being squashed flat when the suspension is depressed all the way.
Cover it in a layer of gravel-proof spray-on coating foam. Adjust its
sensitivity pot, and you're done. You also need a car jack to raise the
wheel and see if it goes off, but cars usually have that ;). Just making
the car owner pull the hand brake every time he arms the alarm will remove
the need for an angle sensor...

And I wish alarm makers would start doing this because I live in a large
city and all the @#$%$&# alarms going off because some punk touches a car
in the middle of the night are getting my nerve. Not to mention the
garbage truck, busses and the real thieves, as well as parking 'bumps',
and cars really being lifted away (these are legitimate noisemakers, but
up to a point).

There should be a law or rule that limits the time an alarm can sound when
triggered by a 'non-intrusive' event. (the current unspoken limit of about
3 minutes is way too much imho - just right to get you out of bed ;(.

Angle sensors that can repetitively discriminate at 2 degrees +/- 0.5 in 2
planes and are stable in time and over -50..+100 deg. C, and do not mind
vibrations in the 20 gee range over time are a little bit more than $10 in
my memory, but I may be wrong ;). What type and make did you have in mind
at $10 ?

Incidentally the mercury dish type will withstand all this, and has some
built-in hysterezis too - but I can't remember the make or manufacturer -
it was a small metal disc, about 20 mm dia. with a slightly rounded bottom
and 4 lugs poking out at 90 degrees from each other, at the rim. The 5th
lug was the body. The mercury inside would short the lug(s) in the
direction it leaned to to the body.  This was not used in a car alarm, it
was a new part meant for something else).

Peter

1998\07\10@155927 by craiglee

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I'm using the ADXL202 and this baby is about $50 CAN a piece!  Anything
around that does X and Y perhaps with less sensitivity and resolution
for the $10 you speak of?

Craig Lee

{Original Message removed}

1998\07\10@164318 by Harold Hallikainen

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       Car alarms added new sounds to the local July 4th fireworks
celebration.  After each loud boom, you'd hear various car alarms go off.
My wife and I turned it into a game where we'd try to determine by the
flash of the fireworks if alarms would go off.  We got pretty good at it.

Harold




Harold Hallikainen
.....haroldKILLspamspam@spam@hallikainen.com
Hallikainen & Friends, Inc.
See the FCC Rules at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules and comments filed
in LPFM proceeding at http://hallikainen.com/lpfm


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1998\07\10@173226 by Peter L. Peres

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On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, David VanHorn wrote:

> You can measure the tilt angle when ignition is turned off, and take any
> variation beyond a few degrees as a trigger..

imho, this would be good for a picture on the wall or a bomb. A car
towed by a pick-up tow-truck does not make an angle of more than 5 degrees
with ground. A sensor that can pick that up vs. 1-2 degrees of normal bank
due to load and whatnot is much more than $10 imho.

> Towing companies don't give a shit, they will take it anyway, and they
> might not be as careful as they normally are about not damaging it.

Why, I thought they sub-contract the towing, and the tower makes loads of
money, no ? So he's real careful not to scratch it.

> Wheel thieves will crib underneath, let the air out of the tires, and then
> take the wheels.  The alarm probably won't sense this.

Probably not, but the proximity sensor does. You would need four, but one
would be enough, as no-one would steal just one wheel ;) As soon as the
rear axle is hanging, wheep wheep wheep... I don't think that a thief can
prop the rear axle properly (but he might).

> Alarms DETECT a breakin, psychology is what will help prevent a breakin.

Psychology only works in countries that can afford to educate people (and
in those parts of countries where people can be educated to some extent).
Elsewhere it takes paramilitary polices, Rottweilers and high voltage. Not
that i particularly approve of it. I understand that in the US there are
quite a few places where one wouldn't park, alarm or not, even in the
day-time.

Nowadays car alarms keep insurance companies happy and neighbors sleepless
at night ;( Thieves seem to be very familiar with all the makes.

Peter

1998\07\10@185201 by William Chops Westfield

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   > The best car alarms bounce a ultrasonic signal off of the road ...

   Or don't cars that can afford such sonar arrays park in places that are
   unclean, un-snow-plowed, and unrich ? ;)

Of course not.  After all, when all is said and done, no one gives a hoot
when a car alarm goes off, and disabling the car at that point mostly
assures that it will be damaged in frustration instead...

:-)
BillW

1998\07\10@195104 by David VanHorn

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>> You can measure the tilt angle when ignition is turned off, and take any
>> variation beyond a few degrees as a trigger..
>
>imho, this would be good for a picture on the wall or a bomb. A car
>towed by a pick-up tow-truck does not make an angle of more than 5 degrees
>with ground. A sensor that can pick that up vs. 1-2 degrees of normal bank
>due to load and whatnot is much more than $10 imho.


Inclinometer sensors can go fractional degrees easy, they're pricey if
bought as a unit, but you could make them in production for maybe less
than $1. You don't need any accuracy or repeatability.

>> Towing companies don't give a shit, they will take it anyway, and they
>> might not be as careful as they normally are about not damaging it.
>
>Why, I thought they sub-contract the towing, and the tower makes loads of
>money, no ? So he's real careful not to scratch it.


You're kidding right?     "Not responsible for damages..."


>> Wheel thieves will crib underneath, let the air out of the tires, and
then
>> take the wheels.  The alarm probably won't sense this.
>
>Probably not, but the proximity sensor does. You would need four, but one
>would be enough, as no-one would steal just one wheel ;) As soon as the
>rear axle is hanging, wheep wheep wheep... I don't think that a thief can
>prop the rear axle properly (but he might).


See my other post on impact sensors. The lug wrench always makes a bit of
a "ping" when it hits the nut.  Worked well for me, one piezo on each brake
assembly.
Also rain (hawaii) and angle immune.  Haven't played with it in ice.



>> Alarms DETECT a breakin, psychology is what will help prevent a breakin.
>
>Psychology only works in countries that can afford to educate people (and
>in those parts of countries where people can be educated to some extent).
>Elsewhere it takes paramilitary polices, Rottweilers and high voltage. Not
>that i particularly approve of it. I understand that in the US there are
>quite a few places where one wouldn't park, alarm or not, even in the
>day-time.


All you can really do to prevent an incident is to make your
place/car/whatver
look like more trouble than the other one down the street. The average thief
is doing this for quick easy money. Anything that makes them nervous will
help.  On house and business alarms, I would often run an exposed wire that
looks like it's part of the alarm, say up an exterior wall to a bell box..
The real
wire is in the wall, cut the obvious one, and it's alarm city.   Or a REAL
cheap
key switch next to the door, VERY pickable.. The real one is inside. Picking
the lock gets an instant trip.

>Nowadays car alarms keep insurance companies happy and neighbors sleepless
>at night ;( Thieves seem to be very familiar with all the makes.


If they can tell where it is, or who made it, you need a new installer.  I
used to
spend 4-8 hours on a car. (made good money too!)  Me and my partner,
operating
our of a TR-6, we come to your car, put it in while you work, and you drive
it home.
I never played the "low bidder" game.. :-P I'm doing this to make a profit!
Once the word gets around that yours WORK, the calendar gets booked solid,
and life is nice!

There are limits though.. Convertables aren't workable, you might as well
just
leave the top down, you'll loose less tops that way.   Wheel theft is about
#2
on that list, there just isn't a whole lot you can do.

1998\07\10@200947 by David VanHorn

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>    Or don't cars that can afford such sonar arrays park in places that are
>    unclean, un-snow-plowed, and unrich ? ;)
>
>Of course not.  After all, when all is said and done, no one gives a hoot
>when a car alarm goes off, and disabling the car at that point mostly
>assures that it will be damaged in frustration instead...


This I agree with 100%.  Most people don't get that thieves don't care about
breaking your stuff. If you piss them off, they are likely to take it out on
your
car/house/whatever.

Better to convince them early it's too much trouble or not worth the
trouble.
That's why I made so much use of decoys. Give them an easy target with
minimal damage potential, and when it turns out to be harder than they
thought, they take off.

I've also been known to mount dual ambulance sirens inside the passenger
compartment under the back seat.  127dB@10' is DAMN loud at 3-4'!
It also encourages getting the door closed quickly :)

1998\07\10@234051 by Timothy D. Gray

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Simple.. Take a ranging when alarm is armed.. base differences on that
ranging, if car rises 3-4 inches set off alarm. It's pretty basic, my
Viper car alarm came with it. (The alarm not the CAR! I wish tho!)

On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Peter L. Peres wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1998\07\10@234304 by Timothy D. Gray

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There is a simple defeat to towing companies, chain the rear axel to the
nearest tree. But trying to keep a car from being re-possesed is near
impossible unless you part it in a locked garage.
when I worked repo we would happily drag a car away screaming it's alarm,
it let's the neighbors know who was the deadbeat.


> Towing companies don't give a shit, they will take it anyway, and they
> might not be as careful as they normally are about not damaging it.
>
> Wheel thieves will crib underneath, let the air out of the tires, and then
> take the wheels.  The alarm probably won't sense this.
>
>
> Alarms DETECT a breakin, psychology is what will help prevent a breakin.
>

1998\07\12@134458 by Peter L. Peres

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On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Timothy D. Gray wrote:

> Simple.. Take a ranging when alarm is armed.. base differences on that
> ranging, if car rises 3-4 inches set off alarm. It's pretty basic, my
> Viper car alarm came with it. (The alarm not the CAR! I wish tho!)

Ah. So if you park the car outside the party house on Christmas eve
(together with 250 other cars), and it starts snowing as it belongs, after
2-3 hours when everyone is happy the cars mark the Holy Evening by honking
more or less together, but not quite, and 250 guests storm the windows,
poke their key-chain remotes in the general direction of the parking lot
and push the buttons. Must be fun watching ;)

Or, the wind moves an empty bottle or small food package (hamburger
carton ?) under the car and...

Or it's raining in the night, and at about 4 AM it gets really cold, and
serious ice forms under the car within 15-30 min. And 2-3000 people in the
surrounding buildings enjoy the honking wake-up.

Do you want me to go on ?

Peter

1998\07\12@142711 by Timothy D. Gray

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Sure :-) tell me more how the standard shock sensor doesn't do this when a
bird leaves evidence on your car, or the wind blows, or a dog farts near
it. I actuall like the standar car alarm... Go through a parking lot, and
push down on the hoods, set's them off nicely!  (BTW, my car has a
clearance of 3 inches.. I had 18 inches of blowing snow build up and the
alarm never went off :-)  as for bottles and burger wraps.. only if ya
live in detroit, chicago or NY.. most of america is quite clean.

>
> Do you want me to go on ?
>
> Peter
>

1998\07\12@154204 by Peter L. Peres

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On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, Timothy D. Gray wrote:

> Sure :-) tell me more how the standard shock sensor doesn't do this when a
> bird leaves evidence on your car, or the wind blows, or a dog farts near
> it. I actuall like the standar car alarm... Go through a parking lot, and
> push down on the hoods, set's them off nicely!  (BTW, my car has a
> clearance of 3 inches.. I had 18 inches of blowing snow build up and the
> alarm never went off :-)  as for bottles and burger wraps.. only if ya
> live in detroit, chicago or NY.. most of america is quite clean.

Ok, my dream car alarm uses 2 of those new piezo accelerometer sensors
(Murata etc)  coupled to digital integrators (in the PIC) to implement a
crude INS. It has a single PIR sensor in the passenger compartment and the
usual switches under the hood(s), ECU cutout, power monitor etc, and a
single piezo shock microphone screwed to the car body inside somewhere to
pick up vandals. For the wheels, use special nuts (there are firms that
make them one-of-a-kind.  Want 3 prongs, 37.15 and 21 degrees apart,
neither of them centered, or round, or deep ? ;)

Advantages: NOBODY will move that car without the integrators picking it
up. Not even downwards or sideways. Nothing to mount under the car body
(no holes that void the rust-proofing warranty). Anyone going for the
wheel nuts with brute force trips the shock microphone, via noise in the
body. And, because of the INS, the alarm can make a difference between
someone bumping the car while parking (which should give a short honk or
two) and a vandal banging the car without bumping/moving it first.
Lifting/towing can set off a different alarm than any other type of
motion. Go on and on and on... Nice ?

The only question is, how smart a shock microphone and its filtering have
to be, to pick up delicate tampering with the special wheel nuts through
the suspension. My educated guess is, that 3 active filters (high, low and
bandpass), and an AGC amplifier with outputs measurable by A/D on a PIC
will do fine to find the difference between a 500 HP Diesel engine
vibrating one meter away, high-pitched pings and scratching from tools,
(and birds !) and the mid-range thunk of a baseball bat hitting the body
somewhere (or of chestnuts falling off a tree) ;).

I suppose that it would have to learn each car ;) Imagine the face of an
installing technician reading the instructions in the booklet: "Select
test mode 1 using the jig, then exit the car, close all its doors and
windows, and whack each main exterior body panel of the car three or more
times, using a tightly folded newspaper, weighing not less than 300 grams,
spending no less than 3 seconds for each panel, and pausing for 5 seconds
before proceeding with the next panel. Select test mode 2 and exit the
car, to throw the small heavy rubber balls (use the 3 golf balls supplied
in the installation kit) against each panel of the car." <VBG>

Unrelated, this reminds me of certain magic rituals required to put the
camcorders I work with into service mode. It's like in a fairy tale. Eject
cassette compartment. Press 2 certain buttons on the remote control while
turning the mode dial left. Then, press the zoom and the date button
together... and it goes on and on until you are 'in'. The rationale is of
course, that the user has a probability of about 1/((No_of_buttons!) ^
No_of_steps_to_be_taken) to hit the jig setup combination by accident.
With the things I'm working on, the number is somewhere around 1/(32!)e3
;)

Peter

1998\07\13@011625 by myke predko

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>Does anyone knows where can i get angle sensors? I want to do a alarm
>for my car and i need them to sense when someone tries to lift it.

Antonio,

It's one thing to detect if somebody <i>tries</i> to lift the car.

But, if they actually succeed, maybe you'd be better off letting them keep
it - or at most try to sign them up for an ESPN "World's Strongest Man"
competition.

myke (it's been a long night - with tongue firmly in cheek)

This week in myke's Book Room: "The Night Crew" by John Sandford

http://www.myke.com/Book_Room

1998\07\13@064144 by Caisson

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> Van: Ant—nio JosŽ Almeida <Antonio.AlmeidaspamKILLspamENT.EFACEC.PT>
> Aan: .....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Onderwerp: Angle sensors
> Datum: vrijdag 10 juli 1998 13:33
>
> Does anyone knows where can i get angle sensors? I want to do a alarm
> for my car and i need them to sense when someone tries to lift it.

A Potentio-meter with a weight connected to the axis ?  (very cheap.)

Maybe a mercury-switch would surfice ...  (or two, placed at angles to
detect if the front or back was being lifted.

Greetz,
 Rudy Wieser

1998\07\13@101918 by Andy Kunz

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>imho, this would be good for a picture on the wall or a bomb. A car
>towed by a pick-up tow-truck does not make an angle of more than 5 degrees
>with ground. A sensor that can pick that up vs. 1-2 degrees of normal bank
>due to load and whatnot is much more than $10 imho.

I use just such a sensor to pick out sub-degree inclines in the APC-3 for
sale at http://www.rcboats.com - check it out.  The APC-3 gives max output
if the thing tilts about 5 degrees.

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\07\13@113332 by Peter L. Peres

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On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Andy Kunz wrote:

> >imho, this would be good for a picture on the wall or a bomb. A car
> >towed by a pick-up tow-truck does not make an angle of more than 5 degrees
> >with ground. A sensor that can pick that up vs. 1-2 degrees of normal bank
> >due to load and whatnot is much more than $10 imho.
>
> I use just such a sensor to pick out sub-degree inclines in the APC-3 for
> sale at http://www.rcboats.com - check it out.  The APC-3 gives max output
> if the thing tilts about 5 degrees.
>
> Andy

How many $$ (you can give us the normal price, not how much you pay for it
;) ? And what type of sensor is it (i.e. what principle of ope., how fast
etc) ?

Peter

1998\07\13@160123 by Andy Kunz

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>How many $$ (you can give us the normal price, not how much you pay for it
>;) ? And what type of sensor is it (i.e. what principle of ope., how fast
>etc) ?

Well, Peter, I don't buy them myself - I just designed around a specified
part.  I believe they are in the $10 range - but I could be wrong.  I was
wrong once before; I thought I made a mistake, but I didn't <G>

It is basically an electrolytic cap with electrolyte giving tilt info.
Pump AC in, get varying DC out.  They are not particularly fast - on the
order of a few mS to get a good reading.  But I take a whole bunch of
samples (32 I think) and throw away some noise bits of A/D conversions, and
get >8  bits resolution over +/- 15 degrees.

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\07\13@210155 by Mark Willis

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David VanHorn wrote:
>
> This I agree with 100%.  Most people don't get that thieves don't care about
> breaking your stuff. If you piss them off, they are likely to take it out on
> your
> car/house/whatever.

 Reminds me of a method one friend suggests to "guarantee" his rifle
isn't liberated;  Remove the bolt from his rifle, and stow it in a very
well-hidden, secure place.  (A wall safe is a good place.)  Hand a $20
bill next to the rifle, with a note, "Please take this money and go in
peace, instead of taking the rifle - which, as you can see, has no bolt
so is worth nothing to you - no reputable gunsmith would put a new bolt
in this rifle for you, without checking to see if the rifle is stolen -
and I WILL report it stolen." or something like that.

 I thought of putting my own central computer in cars, that's
removeable - like the removeable face stereos.  Pull the Serial EPRom
that has all the calibration data & walk off, the car's not going
anywhere without a 1-hour re-learn session <VBG> unless it's towed.  No
joy-riding though...

 Mark Willis, EraseMEmwillisspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTnwlink.com

1998\07\14@121759 by Peter L. Peres

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On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Andy Kunz wrote:
-snip-
>
> It is basically an electrolytic cap with electrolyte giving tilt info.
> Pump AC in, get varying DC out.  They are not particularly fast - on the
> order of a few mS to get a good reading.  But I take a whole bunch of
> samples (32 I think) and throw away some noise bits of A/D conversions, and
> get >8  bits resolution over +/- 15 degrees.

Ah. I've never seen one of these (electrolyte). I'll look out for one to
test & learn the interface circuit. I would have thought that it would be
a capacitive bridge with the electrolyte being the moving armature of 2 or
more capacitors, working all in AC. Hmm. I'm intrigued by the DC
outputs...

thank you for the insight you gave me (us),

       Peter

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