Post by thread:16C65x confusion still

OK, so I've looked carefully at the data sheets and I STILL can't determine the functional differences between the various flavors of 16C65 chips (16C65, 16C65A, 16C65B), except that the plain 16C65 doesn't have a brownout reset capability. Obviously, the A and B chips are different silicon (I have windowed versions of both, and the B die is much smaller) and I know there are some different errata, but are they otherwise identical? If so, why are there different include files in MPASM? (In fact, I just ran a diffs on them, and the A and B files are identical except for the header info. So I'm still curious: if it was just a silicon rev, why have separate data sheets, etc? Seems overly confusing to me: jeez, I spent a good couple hours just poring through data sheets trying to find the differences. In any case, it seems that as long as I pay attention to the errata, I can freely interchange the A and B versions in my programmer and circuit without any trouble, yes? Dave Johnson

At 07:03 25/06/99 -0700, you wrote: >OK, so I've looked carefully at the data sheets and I STILL can't >determine the functional differences between the various flavors of 16C65 >chips (16C65, 16C65A, 16C65B), except that the plain 16C65 doesn't have a >brownout reset capability. Obviously, the A and B chips are different >silicon (I have windowed versions of both, and the B die is much smaller) >and I know there are some different errata, but are they otherwise >identical? If so, why are there different include files in MPASM? (In >fact, I just ran a diffs on them, and the A and B files are identical >except for the header info. > >So I'm still curious: if it was just a silicon rev, why have separate >data sheets, etc? Seems overly confusing to me: jeez, I spent a good >couple hours just poring through data sheets trying to find the >differences. > >In any case, it seems that as long as I pay attention to the errata, I >can freely interchange the A and B versions in my programmer and circuit >without any trouble, yes? Yes. you do not even have to change the device selection between 16C65 A and B parts for programming them. (This is not true for the plain 16C65 though) Probably the reason for the different data sheets is that the 16C65A will be obsoleted soon and the 16C65B will stand on its own. Makes sense to have a unique data sheet for it in this case. Also there probably are soon electrical specifications that are different due to the different die sizes. Don't sweat it. Use the 16C65B as a 16C65A and enjoy the bug fixes (and longer erase time for JW parts) ;-( Jim >Dave Johnson > ________________________________________ Email: spam_OUTnewfoundTakeThisOuTpipeline.com.au http://www.new-elect.com WARP-13 SALE now on. $48USD with world delivery. MPLAB compatible PIC programmers and firmware upgrades for many programmers. ________________________________________

At 09:03 AM 6/25/99 , you wrote: >OK, so I've looked carefully at the data sheets and I STILL can't <SNIP> I just caught this thread so ignore this if somebody already pointed this out.... Most of the new suffixes in the 16C6x/7x imply a die shrink, bug fix AND an enhanced USART. Look at the serial peripheral descriptions. I don't remeber exactly off-hand but I think the enhancement was adding a couple of bits to the I2C moudle to support hardware master modes. (?) Jerry Merrill .....jerrymKILLspam@spam@tech-tools.com http://www.tech-tools.com FAX: (972) 494-5814 VOICE:(972) 272-9392 TechTools PO Box 462101 Garland, TX 75046-2101

The A, B, ... revisions are primarily die shrinks. Some of the errata are corrected on newer silicon but sometimes new bugs creep in. Smaller die can cause differences in capabilities due to the smaller geometries being less forgiving of things like over stressing. On some of the new die the programming algorithm has changed and there have been some changes in configuration fuses to enhance code protect or to add other features like the power up timer. Always use the proper include files and programmer selections to be sure of no extra surprise. At 07:03 AM 6/25/99 -0700, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>OK, so I've looked carefully at the data sheets and I STILL can't >determine the functional differences between the various flavors of 16C65 >chips (16C65, 16C65A, 16C65B), except that the plain 16C65 doesn't have a >brownout reset capability. Obviously, the A and B chips are different >silicon (I have windowed versions of both, and the B die is much smaller) >and I know there are some different errata, but are they otherwise >identical? If so, why are there different include files in MPASM? (In >fact, I just ran a diffs on them, and the A and B files are identical >except for the header info. > >So I'm still curious: if it was just a silicon rev, why have separate >data sheets, etc? Seems overly confusing to me: jeez, I spent a good >couple hours just poring through data sheets trying to find the >differences. > >In any case, it seems that as long as I pay attention to the errata, I >can freely interchange the A and B versions in my programmer and circuit >without any trouble, yes? > >Dave Johnson > > Larry G. Nelson Sr. L.NelsonKILLspamieee.org http://www.ultranet.com/~nr

At 10:42 3/09/99 -0400, you wrote: >The A, B, ... revisions are primarily die shrinks. Some of the errata are >corrected on newer silicon but sometimes new bugs creep in. Smaller die can >cause differences in capabilities due to the smaller geometries being less >forgiving of things like over stressing. On some of the new die the >programming algorithm has changed and there have been some changes in >configuration fuses to enhance code protect or to add other features like >the power up timer. Always use the proper include files and programmer >selections to be sure of no extra surprise. The above concurs mostly with what I believe to be true. The A,B revisions are functional replacements for earlier parts, cheaper and eventually will replace the older part altogether if not already. On some later revisions brown out was added and the polarity of the PWRTE bit reversed in the config word. This is why there are different .INC files but .INC files are (should be!) the same between all 16Cxx A and B revisions (and even some non A, B parts (16C63,66,67,72,76,77) too) so that doesn't quite answer your question. The programming algorithm have not changed for A,B revisions but programmer software may trip up on the different config word settings so it is best to select the right device if in doubt though I use mixed devices with the same programmer settings all day. If you want to know which EPROM parts have the reversed PWRTE, Boden and better code protection, check out my guide to devices with uneraseable code protection on my web page under the "knowledge base" link. Substantually the parts with uneraseable code protection have the reversed PWRTE and usually brownout too (not 16C92x though.) Jim {Quote hidden}>At 07:03 AM 6/25/99 -0700, you wrote: >>OK, so I've looked carefully at the data sheets and I STILL can't >>determine the functional differences between the various flavors of 16C65 >>chips (16C65, 16C65A, 16C65B), except that the plain 16C65 doesn't have a >>brownout reset capability. Obviously, the A and B chips are different >>silicon (I have windowed versions of both, and the B die is much smaller) >>and I know there are some different errata, but are they otherwise >>identical? If so, why are there different include files in MPASM? (In >>fact, I just ran a diffs on them, and the A and B files are identical >>except for the header info. >> >>So I'm still curious: if it was just a silicon rev, why have separate >>data sheets, etc? Seems overly confusing to me: jeez, I spent a good >>couple hours just poring through data sheets trying to find the >>differences. >> >>In any case, it seems that as long as I pay attention to the errata, I >>can freely interchange the A and B versions in my programmer and circuit >>without any trouble, yes? >> >>Dave Johnson >> >> >Larry G. Nelson Sr. >.....L.NelsonKILLspam.....ieee.org >http://www.ultranet.com/~nr > Regards, Jim Robertson NEWFOUND ELECTRONICS ________________________________________ Email: EraseMEnewfoundspam_OUTTakeThisOuTpipeline.com.au http://www.new-elect.com MPLAB compatible PIC programmers. ________________________________________