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PICList Thread
'[PIC] Jal for 18F'
2006\01\19@044314 by Dumitru Stama

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Hello all
I read on the internet there is a version of JAL for PIC 18F but i
cannot find it anywhere. Is it closed source or i can get it from
someone on this list ?
I am mainly interested in programming the PIC18F4550 and for this i
ordered an Pickit 2. I need jal to start making some small programs
for PIC and learn from them the asm (at least this is what i think :-) ).
Do you have some other suggestions for me as a beginner ? Should i use
a C compiler instead of JAL ? I tried to use one once but because of
the lack of examples i dropped it.

Thank you in advance for your time
Dumitru Stama

2006\01\19@055920 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> I read on the internet there is a version of JAL for PIC 18F but i
> cannot find it anywhere. Is it closed source or i can get it from
> someone on this list ?

At the moment in time when I GPL-ed Jal (and stopped maintaining it) it
already supported 18F. The current version can be found at
jal.sourceforge.net

> Do you have some other suggestions for me as a beginner ? Should i use
> a C compiler instead of JAL ? I tried to use one once but because of
> the lack of examples i dropped it.

C has much more capabilities than Jal, if you need one of those (eg
floating point) you should definitely not use Jal. Jal OTOH has a
larger/accessible/nebie user population which might make it more
attactive.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\19@060923 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

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Dumitru Stama wrote :

> I am mainly interested in programming the PIC18F4550...
> I need jal to start making some small programs for PIC...

Well, you don't realy *NEED* Jal for that. You could use
ASM or C or anything else.

But, the 18F4550 is one of the new USB chips, and then
you have quite a lot of examples and a framework
written in C18 from Microchip. I'm not sure that Jal would
be the best option in this case...

Jan-Erik.



2006\01\19@120615 by Hector Martin

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Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> But, the 18F4550 is one of the new USB chips, and then
> you have quite a lot of examples and a framework
> written in C18 from Microchip. I'm not sure that Jal would
> be the best option in this case...

The USB code is a PITA to do. Any small change and boom it goes. I spent
a week trying to find why nothing worked. Turns out I was missing a
banksel somewhere (where it happened to affect everything).

I've ported Bradley A. Minch's ASM USB firmware to "plain" asm (no
structured macros, which GPASM did not seem to like). If anyone wants a
copy, feel free to ask. I'll be releasing the whole project code once
I'm done with it. The USB stuff is pretty much done though.

The original source can be found here:
http://pe.ece.olin.edu/ece/projects.html

--
Hector Martin (spam_OUThectorTakeThisOuTspammarcansoft.com)
Public Key: http://www.marcansoft.com/hector.asc

2006\01\19@130917 by Josh Koffman

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On 1/19/06, Hector Martin <.....hectorKILLspamspam@spam@marcansoft.com> wrote:
> I've ported Bradley A. Minch's ASM USB firmware to "plain" asm (no
> structured macros, which GPASM did not seem to like). If anyone wants a
> copy, feel free to ask. I'll be releasing the whole project code once
> I'm done with it. The USB stuff is pretty much done though.
>
> The original source can be found here:
> http://pe.ece.olin.edu/ece/projects.html

I'd love to take a look. This was something I was planning on doing as
well, but I've been mired in PCB design for the last little while.

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

2006\01\19@231558 by Chen Xiao Fan

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> On 1/19/06, Hector Martin <hectorspamKILLspammarcansoft.com> wrote:
>
> I've ported Bradley A. Minch's ASM USB firmware to "plain"
> asm (no structured macros, which GPASM did not seem to like). If
> anyone wants a copy, feel free to ask. I'll be releasing the
> whole project  code once I'm done with it. The USB stuff is
> pretty much done though.
>
> The original source can be found here:
> http://pe.ece.olin.edu/ece/projects.html

I'd like to see it. I'd like to see the difference between your
port and Ben Dugan's gpasm port. His gpasm port of Lab 2
is posted in his web site here:
http://www.curdes.com/gnupic/GnuPic.html

By the way, from the Microchip Forum, the original author (Brad
Minch) has just updated all the projects (now there are 4 projects
in both C and ASM). Those who are interested in USB PICs should
check the Microchip Forum USB section. There are plenty of examples
there. In fact Brad Minch's post is the most popular thread in the
whole Microchip Forum. USB seems to be a hot topic there.

Other than Brad Minch's examples, there is one guy (Microchip
Forum id: yts) who also posted many interesting examples.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2006\01\20@033555 by Hector Martin

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Chen Xiao Fan wrote:
>>On 1/19/06, Hector Martin <.....hectorKILLspamspam.....marcansoft.com> wrote:
>>
>>I've ported Bradley A. Minch's ASM USB firmware to "plain"
>>asm (no structured macros, which GPASM did not seem to like). If
>>anyone wants a copy, feel free to ask. I'll be releasing the
>>whole project  code once I'm done with it. The USB stuff is
>>pretty much done though.
>>
>>The original source can be found here:
>>http://pe.ece.olin.edu/ece/projects.html
>
>
> I'd like to see it. I'd like to see the difference between your
> port and Ben Dugan's gpasm port. His gpasm port of Lab 2
> is posted in his web site here:
> http://www.curdes.com/gnupic/GnuPic.html
>

I just rewrote the whole thing in plain assembly, with my own twists and
differences. No structured macros (ENGR2210.inc) here. It is relocatable
code and can run both from an interrupt and via polling. It uses a small
set of standard code that I use (stddefs.asm/.inc) that contains
definitions for a bunch of "standard" registers in the Access bank
(R0-R7 plus T0-T3 and others). I also used symbolic constants for
setting bits in registers ( (1<<UOWN)|(1<<DTS) instead of 0xC0 ), and
used the Microchip (datasheet) names when possible. I made it full-speed
code too, sicen I needed larger input reports (easy to switch back to
low-speed). It also has been tested for non-usb-powered devices (I
needed to do some voodoo to get the USB module to reset properly. Damn
think kept crashing for some unknown reason related to interrupts). I'm
also making use of the newer 18F instructions, which makes some things
more compact (this is also my first project on the 18F by the way. I
think I fell in love with it :) they fixed most of the great annoyances
of the 16F core)

I am still thinking about improving it though. For example, right now I
absolutely hate the giant nested "select" statements for processing the
requests (right now I just have ASM equivalents of select). Especially
for GET_DESCRIPTOR. I might include a table with start and length of
descriptors to avoid a big chunk of code and hardcoded data. I'll also
make it handle large descriptors (>256bytes).

Oh, and I learned a great deal of USB stuff from this :)

I'll clean it up and post it this weekend sometime.


--
Hector Martin (EraseMEhectorspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmarcansoft.com)
Public Key: http://www.marcansoft.com/hector.asc

2006\01\20@041710 by Chen Xiao Fan

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-bouncesspamspam_OUTmit.edu
> [@spam@piclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu] On Behalf Of Dumitru Stama
>
> I am mainly interested in programming the PIC18F4550 and for this i
> ordered an Pickit 2. I need jal to start making some small programs
> for PIC and learn from them the asm (at least this is what i
> think :-) ).

Now we should go back to the OP's question.

I think it is a very good choice to order a PICkit 2.

There is nothing wrong to start with 18F though. However 18F4550
may be a bit too much and a smaller PIC 18F may be a better option.
If you are interested in USB, then 18F2550/4550 will still be the
good choice.

> Do you have some other suggestions for me as a beginner ? Should i use
> a C compiler instead of JAL ? I tried to use one once but because of
> the lack of examples i dropped it.
>

I guess ASM is better for a small PIC and MPLAB C18 will be better
if you want to use 18F4550. Still some basic knowledge in
PIC assembly is still very much required. You'd better start
with some reading of the datasheets and trying out some
simple things (blinking an LED, etc) before you jump to
USB which is really quite tough.

I do not know much about JAL though and I can only guess it
will not be a very good choice for 18F4550.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2006\01\20@071726 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> I do not know much about JAL though and I can only guess it
> will not be a very good choice for 18F4550.

I agree, in the sense that if you want to use a 4550 you probably want
to use an existing USB framework and AFIAK there is none in Jal.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


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