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PICList Thread
'[PIC] C++ PIC18 Compiler'
2003\06\23@134846 by engen

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 I seeking for a C++ compiler for the PIC18 family. If it runs under linux
it would be better, but windows native are welcome too.

 Best Regards,

 Engen

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2003\06\23@141023 by Duane

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Check out the PCHL at CCS.   I'm currently using the PCWH, and like to try
the PCML.
http://www.ccsinfo.com/ccscorder.html

Duane


{Original Message removed}

2003\06\23@142838 by engen

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Hi Duane,

  I've checked PCHL, but i think that this is a C Compiler not a C++
  Compiler.
 Thanks


Check out the PCHL at CCS.   I'm currently using the PCWH, and like to try
the PCML.
http://www.ccsinfo.com/ccscorder.html

Duane


{Original Message removed}

2003\06\23@152349 by Byron A Jeff

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On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 06:47:12PM +0100, spam_OUTengenTakeThisOuTspamALUMNI.DEEC.UC.PT wrote:
>   I seeking for a C++ compiler for the PIC18 family. If it runs under linux
> it would be better, but windows native are welcome too.

Good Luck.

C++ has a boatload of overhead. Objects cost both data memory and program
space. C++ simply isn't very efficient for systems at the microcontroller
level. Just think about what it takes to implement virtual/abstract functions
and you'll see what I'm talking about.

How about defining what requirements you need from C++, then see how you can
implement just that subset in C. You'll have a better chance of success.

Again, Good Luck.

BAJ

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2003\06\23@163516 by Douglas Wood

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While I agree with Byron on the use of C++ in embedded systems, you might
check out EC+. I know it's available to the AVR. Someone might make it for
the PIC (try IAR).

Douglas Wood
Software Engineer
.....dbwoodKILLspamspam@spam@kc.rr.com
ICQ#: 143841506

Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC
http://epicis.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

2003\06\25@132621 by M. Adam Davis

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I would contend ( and so does Bjarne Stroustrup) that C++ can be just as
small and efficient as C, the problem is with the compilers, not the
language.  This should be intuitive (complexity of the compiled code
depends on the program itself, not on the language) but it's also
intuitive that each compiler has different problems with bloat and
inefficiency.

IIRC, there are programs out there that convert C++ programs into C
programs.

The main problem, howver, is that C++ was created in order to make C
development faster, as well as introduce a lot of flexibility (STL) and
enhance code reuse.  These assets are not necessarily assets for the PIC
microcontroller, which is currently not well designed to handle C,
nevermind C++.

The larger PICs, with more code and data space and extensions for
handling some C abilities, are better suited to not only C but C++.  It
takes a lot of C to fill up the 32k words of programming code in the
latest PICs.  C++ would make that much smaller, as well as permit
certian development features (such as subsets of the STL) which we don't
have now but could use.

-Adam

Byron A Jeff wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\06\25@154355 by James Caska

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Why not skip C++ in the compiler/language foodchain and go straight to
java...

* The muvium java client is written in java and so will run under
anything that can run java and has an internet connection including
linux, windows or your mobile phone!
* The muvium devices supported start at the 16F877A and the vast
majority of 18F devices immanently
* muvium development kit is available free
http://www.muvium.com/uVMDK/uVMDK.htm
* Support tools including uVM-IDE and Virtual Breadboard,
http://www.virtualbreadboard.com, real-time emulator available iminantly for
free
* Performance of muvium rivals C and out-classes all interpretive VM's
by orders of magnitude http://www.muvium.com/metrics/metrics.htm
* Powerful real-time features such as Prioritised Pre-emptive
Multi-tasking and Abstract Peripheral Toolkit for tight real-time
applications
* Builtin TCP/IP SLIP WebServer with Servlet WebServer for programmatic
Dynamic WebPage generation and soon WebServices Remoting
* Java Packages for Input/OutputStreams, Port Access, Timers, SPIMaster,
PulseMonitor, SerialPort,.... See docs
* To be released LCD's, Graphics LCD's, Sizeable Fonts, Bitmaps, Virtual
Serial Ports, ADC Streams ..
* More packages soon, and re-usable libraries of device drivers under
development interchangeable with other java platforms
* Support group and special interest groups
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/muvium/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/embedlets/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/cork/
* Shortly available features include, wrapping Native Code into java
wrappers for inclusion in applications
* Available now! Get started for $25.. For your uVM-877A samples kit
available online http://shop.muvium.com/
* Those that are coming to PICMASTERS bring a blank 16F87A or 18F452 and
see me at the 3rd Party Bazaar and I will 'upgrade' your cores with the
uVM bootloader as a free uVM sample!

Mini-FAQ ('cause I know your going to ask)
* No the uVMJIT online compiler is not yet available for separate
purchase nor is pricing set
* No you may not download the bootloader HEX yet and program your own
devices
* muvium is in the business of selling the devices, ie we sell PIC cores
pre-programmed with uVM bootloaders and resell the device as a muvium
device with a small royalty per device. The tools are all freely
available.
* Unfortunately the full pricing schedule is not yet available but as a
guide in medium volume the margin is only about 25% and in high volume
5-10%

And because I am feeling generous...how about this for a special offer
only for PICLISTERS

The first 50 PICListers who join the
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/muvium/ and post me a special request
offer by clicking on a link below and sending me their snail mail
details will receive a free uVM-877A(16F877A core) OR a free
uVM-452(18F452 core) sample and we will even cover the shipping costs..
But you need to join the muvium group and I will look for your name in
the list because when you ask questions about muvium I would really like
you to ask the list because there are others who have many of the
answers in the muvium list if I am not available to answer your question

EraseMEsalesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmuvium.com?subject=Request_FREE_uVM-877A_SAMPLE> salesspamspam_OUTmuvium.com?subject=Request_FREE_uVM-452_SAMPLE

Don't forget your snail mail address!!!

P.S These are DIP40 devices - if you need another footprint you will
have to wait just a little while to order them as we are only just
gearing up our device inventory.

James Caska
http://www.muvium.com
uVM - 'Java Bred for Embedded'



{Original Message removed}

2003\06\25@204311 by Michael Davidson

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>IIRC, there are programs out there that convert C++ programs into C
>programs.

If I'm not mistaken, this is pretty much what the C++ compiler does (to an
extent). Member functions get converted to C function passed this as the
first parameter. So;

Object::PerformAction(int item1, char thingo)

Becomes something to the affect of;

PerformAction__5Object(Object *this, int item1, char thing)

Although I'm only looking at it from a very simplified view.

>The main problem, howver, is that C++ was created in order to make C
>development faster, as well as introduce a lot of flexibility (STL) and
>enhance code reuse.  These assets are not necessarily assets for the PIC
>microcontroller, which is currently not well designed to handle C,
>nevermind C++.

The 18 series is touted (first paragraph of DS39564B) as being "Optimized for
high-level languages like ANSI C...".

Michael
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Think of it!  With VLSI we can pack 100 ENIACs in 1 sq. cm.!

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