Post by thread:[PIC]: Transistors for pocket programmer.

Guys, I'm not good with analog electronics... ...Transistor parameters are Greek to me. I'm trying to source parts for Tony Nixon's pocket programmer so that people can order in one shot from digikey or mouser. What I have so far is at www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/ppord.htm At this point, the total is looking at about $75 just for the parts. But there are a lot of cases of having to buy 10 when you need 1 because Digikey has a minimum order quantity. And their prices are high on some types of things. I'll eventually re-source those components through Mouser the same way and then split the form into two according to where the best price is. Once I get all the parts sourced, if I can do it so they match Tony's original boards, I'll just run a batch of the original PCB layout. If I can't match them or if there is a significant price savings to be had by doing a new layout, I'll do a new layout. The boards will probably run about $15 to $20 so I think we can get to a final price of less than $100 easily and maybe as little as $75. Hopefully, by April, the pocket will again be available as a kit. A friend of mine is interested in providing assembled and tested units, so that may also become an option. In any case, a small royalty payment will go to Tony, although he has not asked for one (and he has given me permission to make them here). But at this point, I'm really having a hard time with these transistors and I'd really appreciate some help. The BC numbers are European I guess, and I'm told the specs are not unusual, but I need to know what Digikey or mouser (or other) part number is a good replacement. All the cases are the little TO-92's. BC548 NPN Vce30 Vcb30 Ic 100mA Hfe 110-800 @2mA 500mW BC639 NPN 80 100 1A 40-250 @150mA 1W BC640 PNP as per BC639 Thanks in advance! --- James Newton, webmaster piclist.com (former Admin #3) spam_OUTjamesnewtonTakeThisOuTpiclist.com 1-619-652-0593 VM 1-208-279-8767 FAX PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList .....piclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu

James- Digikey is very expensive for one-offs, more than my local store sometimes. (But, I have to admit the service is incredible - I ordered at 08:00, order filled at 10:00, and arrived the next day on the West Coast of Canada at 13:00!). I would price it out at 10 and 25. Show us all the prices. I wouldn't be surprised if you could enough orders to get the price down. David "James Newton. Admin 3" wrote: {Quote hidden}> Guys, I'm not good with analog electronics... > > ...Transistor parameters are Greek to me. > > I'm trying to source parts for Tony Nixon's pocket programmer so that people > can order in one shot from digikey or mouser. What I have so far is at > www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/ppord.htm > At this point, the total is looking at about $75 just for the parts. But > there are a lot of cases of having to buy 10 when you need 1 because Digikey > has a minimum order quantity. And their prices are high on some types of > things. I'll eventually re-source those components through Mouser the same > way and then split the form into two according to where the best price is. > > Once I get all the parts sourced, if I can do it so they match Tony's > original boards, I'll just run a batch of the original PCB layout. If I > can't match them or if there is a significant price savings to be had by > doing a new layout, I'll do a new layout. The boards will probably run about > $15 to $20 so I think we can get to a final price of less than $100 easily > and maybe as little as $75. > > Hopefully, by April, the pocket will again be available as a kit. A friend > of mine is interested in providing assembled and tested units, so that may > also become an option. In any case, a small royalty payment will go to Tony, > although he has not asked for one (and he has given me permission to make > them here). > > But at this point, I'm really having a hard time with these transistors and > I'd really appreciate some help. The BC numbers are European I guess, and > I'm told the specs are not unusual, but I need to know what Digikey or > mouser (or other) part number is a good replacement. All the cases are the > little TO-92's. > > BC548 NPN Vce30 Vcb30 Ic 100mA Hfe 110-800 @2mA 500mW > BC639 NPN 80 100 1A 40-250 @150mA 1W > BC640 PNP as per BC639 > > Thanks in advance! > > --- > James Newton, webmaster piclist.com (former Admin #3) > jamesnewtonKILLspampiclist.com > 1-619-652-0593 VM 1-208-279-8767 FAX > PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList > .....piclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspam.....mitvma.mit.edu -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu

> Once I get all the parts sourced, if I can do it so they match Tony's > original boards, I'll just run a batch of the original PCB layout. If I > can't match them or if there is a significant price savings to be had by > doing a new layout, I'll do a new layout. The boards will probably run about > $15 to $20 so I think we can get to a final price of less than $100 easily > and maybe as little as $75. Isn't the price for a Picstart+ around $100? If so, what's the point? Especially if the $75 programmer is a kit and doesn't cover the whole PIC product line. However, $75 parts cost sounds VERY high for what I imagine to be in a programmer. > BC548 NPN Vce30 Vcb30 Ic 100mA Hfe 110-800 @2mA 500mW > BC639 NPN 80 100 1A 40-250 @150mA 1W > BC640 PNP as per BC639 It would help a lot if you can get the parameters actually required of the transistors by the circuit, not the specs for the selected parts. That would make it more likely that some cheap transistor from Jameco can be substituted. For example, Jameco sells 2N4401 and 2N4403 for $6.00 per bag of 100. These are generic basic transistors with reasonably gain and frequency response in TO-92 package. They don't match all the specs above, but just might meet the circuit requirements. I use these in one-off designs as "jelly bean" transistors. For higher power jelly beans, I use TIP41 and TIP42. These are TO-220 and also available cheaply from Jameco. ******************************************************************** Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, @spam@olinKILLspamembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList KILLspampiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspammitvma.mit.edu

Just a note. I'm using the Warp13a from Dontronics. Programs just about everything, ZIF socket included, ICSP works too! Interfaces to MPLAB or runs on its own software. Very satisfied with it. I paid $105 USD shipped stateside. http://www.dontronics.com/newfound.html Rick Paul Hutchinson wrote: > > Isn't the price for a Picstart+ around $100? > > It's $200.00 at Digi-Key. > > Paul > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList > spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu

At 10:28 AM 2/20/02 -0800, James Newton. Admin 3 wrote: ><www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/devprogs.htm#pocket> >is the general link and ><www.piclist.com/images/com/bubblesoftonline/www/http/pocket/pocket/po >cket_pdf/schematic.gif> >has the schematic... James - I had a quick look at the schematic and feel that you can use common, jelly-bean transistors without any problems other than possibly pinout. Use 2n4401 for the NPN transistors and 2n4403 for the PNP transistors. They should cost less than a dime each in small quantities and a couple of pennies in larger quantities. I can send you a couple of dozen each if you want to try them before buying. dwayne Dwayne Reid <RemoveMEdwaynerTakeThisOuTplanet.eon.net> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax Celebrating 18 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2002) .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .- `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address. This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList piclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseME.....mitvma.mit.edu

"James Newton. Admin 3" wrote: > Hopefully, by April, the pocket will again be available as a kit. A friend > of mine is interested in providing assembled and tested units, so that may > also become an option. In any case, a small royalty payment will go to Tony, > although he has not asked for one (and he has given me permission to make > them here). No need to, just donate it to the PIClist fund :-) > > BC548 NPN Vce30 Vcb30 Ic 100mA Hfe 110-800 @2mA 500mW > BC639 NPN 80 100 1A 40-250 @150mA 1W > BC640 PNP as per BC639 I think I found 2N equivalents.. BC639 2N2222 BC640 2N2907 Pin outs may be different BC548 is any general purpose switching transistor, such as you would use to turn small relays on and off with a PIC IO pin. -- Best regards Tony mICros http://www.bubblesoftonline.com EraseMEsalesbubblesoftonline.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu

> It's $200.00 at Digi-Key. Hmm, you're right. I guess you have to be a Microchip PIC consultant to get the $100 price. Then again, they throw in a PicStart+ with some other things, like the ICE-2000. I have 2 PicStart+ around here, and am quite certain I never actually paid directly for either one. ******************************************************************** Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, RemoveMEolinspam_OUTKILLspamembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu

All, I signed up for one of their (Microchip) seminars that was held in Houston a few years ago. When I signed up, I also opted to purchase a PICStart+ Programmer and the ICD. Since I was attending the seminar, they gave a discount on the prices of the PSP and the ICD. The PSP was $149.00 with the discount and the ICD was 199.00 with the discount. But when I got to the seminar, I asked for the units I had reserved. I was told there wasn't any there for me as only purchased units were reserved abd brought to the seminar. I told them I did purchase/reserve a PSP and an ICD. Long story short, they checked with the field engineers office where I signed up and they were told I did purchase the units. Since it was their screw-up, the field engineer said he would send me one of each unit when he got back to his office a couple of days later. Sure enough, about 3 days after the seminar, a box arrived at my door with a PSP and and ICD unit with all the software, hardware, etc. It had been shipped to me FEDEX Next Day, and said there was NO CHARGE AT ALL. So, I got a refund of all monies I had paid, plus I got my units and they were sent via FEDEX NEXT DAY. All in all, quite a deal I think. So generally speaking, I will give ALL my microcontroller business to Microchip. The only time I'll stray from that promise is when my employer insists on using something else. And even then, I try to talk them into using a PIC. Anyway, just wanted to share my experience regarding the PSP and ICD, and to tell you you might want to look into their seminnar schedule. You can get a discount if you order at the same time you sign up for the seminar. Regards, Jim {Quote hidden}>> It's $200.00 at Digi-Key. > > Hmm, you're right. I guess you have to be a Microchip PIC consultant > to get the $100 price. Then again, they throw in a PicStart+ with some > other things, like the ICE-2000. I have 2 PicStart+ around here, and > am quite certain I never actually paid directly for either one. > > > ******************************************************************** > Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts > (978) 742-9014, EraseMEolinspamspamBeGoneembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList > RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspammitvma.mit.edu -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList piclist-unsubscribe-requestSTOPspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu

At 09:10 AM 2/21/02 +1100, you wrote: >BC639 2N2222 >BC640 2N2907 Tony, do you recall what the maximum Pd is on those transistors? The (metal case) 2N2222 is only good for 500mW at Ta = 25'C, the 2N4401 (cheap, ubiquitous) 630mW at Ta = 25'C, your BC639/40 for 830mW @ Ta = 25'C (burnt finger, anyone?) Unless some are running quite warm, the 2N4401/2N4403 should work for all of them, except that none of the pinouts will be correct, and there are two variations. ;-) If I was doing it with your PCB design and parts *I* had on hand, I'd flip a 2N4401 or 8050 (US pinout) for the one part, and use 2SC1815/2SA1015 for the BC639/640. Doesn't work for anyone else, I'll bet. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" spamBeGonespeffSTOPspamEraseMEinterlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com 9/11 United we Stand -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList KILLspampiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu

> www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/devprogs.htm#pocket > is the general link and > www.piclist.com/images/com/bubblesoftonline/www/http/pocket/pocket/po > cket_pdf/schematic.gif > has the schematic... > > ...oh boy... This is a good education... there are different pin outs for > transistors even? wow... glad I asked. They only have three leads, so how far off could it be? <grin> I had a quick look at the schematic, but it isn't obvious in how much current the transistors will pass when on, and what the voltage drop accross them will be. All the voltages seem to be limited to 18V, so that will be no problem for jelly bean transistors. Judging from the resistor values near the transistors, most of them don't seem to pass much current except maybe TR4 and TR3. However, some of the wires have names and these names were too small to read, so I can't tell where they go. I'd be surprised if anything exceeds 100mA, but can't guarantee that. You should really ask Tony. If all the currents and power dissipations are small enough you should be able to replace all the NPNs with 2N4401 and the PNPs with 2N4403 which are real cheap and available. Yes, the pinouts can be different between different transistors. If the transistor has wire leads like a TO-92 package, you can usually rotate the part and bend the leads to get them in the right place. Just make sure you tell people how to install it if it's not how it's shown on the silkscreen. ******************************************************************** Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, EraseMEolinEraseMEembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList @spam@piclist-unsubscribe-request@spam@spam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu

Re: Olin's 2nd message on this (won't copy for some reason):- The Japanese E-C-B to American E-B-C pinout translation is messy, you have to rotate it part of a turn and then curve the leads around, and there is risk of the C and B shorting if it is not done carefully. One idea is to put a universal footprint on your PCBs: E B C <--- American (or European B C E, with TO-92 flipped) 0 0 0----x | \ | 0 0 0 | | | x-------x E C B <--- Japanese Then your product can be made with whatever's most available anywhere in the world. (Or just use SOT-23 transistors, they are pretty much standardized- at last!) Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" spamBeGonespeffKILLspaminterlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com 9/11 United we Stand -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList .....piclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu

> Then again, they throw in a PicStart+ with some other things, like > the ICE-2000. I wish they did, but they don't. At least we didn't get one when we paid a bit over $2000.00 for an ICE-2000 setup last year. Had to pony up another $200.00 for the PicStart+ and, some more $ recently for an ICD kit :-(. Maybe it's only included for registered Microchip PIC consultants. But so far, we've found the MicroChip tools to be worth every penny they cost. Paul ========================================= Paul Hutchinson Chief Engineer Maximum Inc., 30 Samuel Barnet Blvd. New Bedford, MA 02745 .....phutchinsonRemoveMEimtra.com http://www.maximum-inc.com ========================================= -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu

At 06:33 PM 2/20/02 -0500, Spehro Pefhany wrote: >Re: Olin's 2nd message on this (won't copy for some reason):- > >The Japanese E-C-B to American E-B-C pinout translation is messy, you have >to rotate it part of a turn and then curve the leads around, and there is >risk of the C and B shorting if it is not done carefully. > >One idea is to put a universal footprint on your PCBs: > > E B C <--- American (or European B C E, with TO-92 flipped) > > 0 0 0----x > | \ | > 0 0 0 | > | | > x-------x > E C B <--- Japanese Even easier: 4 holes in line. The outer holes are tied together as Emitter. Now you can do E-B-C or E-C-B just by picking which 3 holes to use. E B C E 0 0 0 0 | | +--------+ dwayne Dwayne Reid <spamBeGonedwayner@spam@spam_OUTplanet.eon.net> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax Celebrating 18 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2002) .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .- `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address. This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspammitvma.mit.edu

> One idea is to put a universal footprint on your PCBs: > > E B C <--- American (or European B C E, with TO-92 flipped) > > 0 0 0----x > | \ | > 0 0 0 | > | | > x-------x > E C B <--- Japanese If you arrange the pads in a triangle, then its a lot easier to insert a transistor with a different pinout. ******************************************************************** Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, olinEraseMEembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

>From: "James Newton. Admin 3" <RemoveMEjamesnewtonEraseMEspam_OUTPICLIST.COM> >Subject: [PIC]: Transistors for pocket programmer. >But at this point, I'm really having a hard time with these transistors and >I'd really appreciate some help. The BC numbers are European I guess, and >I'm told the specs are not unusual, but I need to know what Digikey or >mouser (or other) part number is a good replacement. All the cases are the >little TO-92's. > >BC548 NPN Vce30 Vcb30 Ic 100mA Hfe 110-800 @2mA 500mW >BC639 NPN 80 100 1A 40-250 @150mA 1W >BC640 PNP as per BC639 These are standard, readily available in Hong Kong. I use BC547's by the thousands. KEC or Philips. My buying price is $US0.0167 each. BC639/40 are about 3 times that. 2. Ceramic resonators - someone else was asking - are generic, also easy to get here with 2 caps built in. Price $US0.064 is what I buy them for. regards, Peter Crowcroft DIY Electronics (HK) Ltd PO Box 88458, Sham Shui Po, Hong Kong Factory: voice 852-2304 2250 Fax: 852-2729 1400 M/F, 97 Fuk Wa Street, Sham Shui Po Home: voice 852-2720 0255 Mobile: 6273 2049 Web: http://kitsrus.com Email: @spam@peterRemoveMEEraseMEkitsrus.com ------------------------------------------------------------- -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

From our transistor database: BC548 eqv. BC168, BC183, BC238, 2N5818 BC639 eqv. 2SD667, 2N3700...3701, 2SC2383 BC640 eqv. 2SB647, 2SA1013 Best Wishes Steve Peter Crowcroft wrote: {Quote hidden}> >From: "James Newton. Admin 3" <EraseMEjamesnewton@spam@PICLIST.COM> > >Subject: [PIC]: Transistors for pocket programmer. > >But at this point, I'm really having a hard time with these transistors and > >I'd really appreciate some help. The BC numbers are European I guess, and > >I'm told the specs are not unusual, but I need to know what Digikey or > >mouser (or other) part number is a good replacement. All the cases are the > >little TO-92's. > > > >BC548 NPN Vce30 Vcb30 Ic 100mA Hfe 110-800 @2mA 500mW > >BC639 NPN 80 100 1A 40-250 @150mA 1W > >BC640 PNP as per BC639 > > These are standard, readily available in Hong Kong. I use BC547's by the > thousands. KEC or Philips. My buying price is $US0.0167 each. > > BC639/40 are about 3 times that. > > 2. Ceramic resonators - someone else was asking - are generic, also easy to > get here with 2 caps built in. Price $US0.064 is what I buy them for. > > regards, > > Peter Crowcroft > DIY Electronics (HK) Ltd > PO Box 88458, Sham Shui Po, Hong Kong > Factory: voice 852-2304 2250 Fax: 852-2729 1400 > M/F, 97 Fuk Wa Street, Sham Shui Po > Home: voice 852-2720 0255 Mobile: 6273 2049 > Web: http://kitsrus.com Email: @spam@peterspam_OUT.....kitsrus.com > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics