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'[PIC]: Simulation Speeds'
2001\05\21@150043 by Chris Pringle

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How can I make MPLAB simulate things faster...I have tried it on several
machines with very little difference in performance. I'm sure with a 1200MHz
processor, it would have no problem emulating a 10MHz PIC at full speed. Any
ideas?

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2001\05\21@150843 by Drew Vassallo

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>How can I make MPLAB simulate things faster...I have tried it on several
>machines with very little difference in performance. I'm sure with a
>1200MHz

Go to http://www.myke.com and look for a utility called "Speed.Zip"... it basically
sends null requests to simulate mouse movement, which speeds up the windoze
processes.  It works pretty damn well... I've improved the simulator speed
up to ~10x (if I recall correctly) with this little utility.  Try it for
yourself.

--Andrew
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2001\05\21@152119 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 06:37 PM 5/21/01 +0100, you wrote:
>How can I make MPLAB simulate things faster...I have tried it on several
>machines with very little difference in performance. I'm sure with a 1200MHz
>processor, it would have no problem emulating a 10MHz PIC at full speed. Any
>ideas?

I don't theeenk so.. not with Microchip's pokey software. 10 years ago
Z80MU was able to do a 4MHz Z-80 (a _MUCH_ more complex CPU than a PIC) at
full speed on a 20MHz 8x86 (1:5), I don't know why (other than sloth in
re-writing the core simulation routines in assembler) they are are SO
slow. Sure, they have more types of breakpoints to deal with, but still..
I measure a ratio of about 1:9000!!!

<gripe> And when are they going to start supporting long filenames? </gripe>

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2001\05\21@152123 by Scott Dattalo

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On Mon, 21 May 2001, Chris Pringle wrote:

> How can I make MPLAB simulate things faster...I have tried it on several
> machines with very little difference in performance. I'm sure with a 1200MHz
> processor, it would have no problem emulating a 10MHz PIC at full speed. Any
> ideas?

If you're after simulation speed, you may wish to look at gpsim:

http://www.dattalo.com/gnupic/gpsim.html

On a 1200MHz processor, you should be able to simulate a "goto $" program
as though if it were running on a 300MHz PIC! For a general purpose program with
the gui interface and stimuli, it's probably closer to 40-60MHz.

BTW, I have a 450MHz PII and my wife has a 900MHz PIII - gpsim runs about
5 or six times faster on her machine. (Good thing I have a 100Mbit ethernet link
between the two :).

Oh yeah, I almost forgot to mention, gpsim is a GNU/Linux thing.

Scott

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2001\05\21@155447 by Scott Newell

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>Go to http://www.myke.com and look for a utility called "Speed.Zip"... it basically

Also available from the author at:


http://www.digital-pickle.dynodns.net/embedded/pic/pic.html

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2001\05\21@180943 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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><gripe> And when are they going to start supporting long filenames? </gripe>

       EXCELENT question. This piss me a lot :oP <GRIN>

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2001\05\21@183055 by Chris Pringle

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Thanks for that...just solved my stack overflow problem now :)

Thanks!

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{Original Message removed}

2001\05\22@121432 by Harold M Hallikainen

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On Mon, 21 May 2001 15:22:01 -0400 Spehro Pefhany <spamBeGonespeffspamBeGonespamINTERLOG.COM>
writes:
{Quote hidden}

       Z80MU!!!  I'm still running that here on occasion! I've got an old
inventory control program we wrote in dBase II to run on our Cromemco
CP/M machine. Now and then I need to look back into that inventory to
find a supplier on a part for a product we used to make. Also, my Avocet
6800 assembler is run under Z80MU. I had to reassemble some 20 year old
code to fix Y2K problems a few years ago. Ran it under Z80MU!  As I
recall, it was freeware from some company that explained it was "too good
to keep to ourselves." It ran (and still does run) all the CP/M software
I had. Had to use Modem 7 to move stuff from the 8 inch floppies over to
the PC though...

Harold





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2001\05\23@062951 by Alan B. Pearce

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>How can I make MPLAB simulate things faster...I have tried it on several
>machines with very little difference in performance. I'm sure with a
1200MHz
>processor, it would have no problem emulating a 10MHz PIC at full speed.
Any
>ideas?

Do not forget that MPLAB is a 16 bit application that is having to go
through all the 16 to 32 bit thunks in the operating system to do its work.
This is the area of a fair percentage of speed loss, bit it is invisible to
you.

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2001\05\23@063819 by Alan B. Pearce

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><gripe> And when are they going to start supporting long filenames?
</gripe>

When it stops being a 16 bit app. That is where the limitation comes in,
because it is set up to still run on Win3.x!

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2001\05\23@074125 by Bob Ammerman

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> >How can I make MPLAB simulate things faster...I have tried it on several
> >machines with very little difference in performance. I'm sure with a
> 1200MHz
> >processor, it would have no problem emulating a 10MHz PIC at full speed.
> Any
> >ideas?
>
> Do not forget that MPLAB is a 16 bit application that is having to go
> through all the 16 to 32 bit thunks in the operating system to do its
work.
> This is the area of a fair percentage of speed loss, bit it is invisible
to
> you.

Actually, there is nothing that prevents a 16-bit app from running
efficiently when doing computational tasks. It only gets in trouble when
doing a a lot of GUI I/O etc.

I think the problem here is a poor design on the part of mChip. They are
checking for windows messages much too often, or perhaps they are just
running a small burst of simulated instructions after each windows message
in an attempt to keep the application responsive. The size of such a burst
would have been set many years ago when a 386 running win 3.1 was the
hottest thing.

If my theory is correct, then just cranking up the burst size would make a
huge difference.

I have often speculated that mChip deliberately crippled the performance of
MPSIM to help them sell more ICE's.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

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2001\05\23@074729 by Bob Ammerman

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> When it stops being a 16 bit app. That is where the limitation comes in,
> because it is set up to still run on Win3.x!

It is possible (but not particularly pretty) to update a 16 bit app to
understand long file names. It is even possible to do this with DOS apps!

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

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