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'[PIC]: RF Transmitters - Micro size'
2002\02\01@190429 by Tal Bejerano - AMC

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Hi 2 All

Did someone met/saw a very small RF transmitters? I mean very small 4-5 mm
size.
low voltage and very low power.

Thanks

Tal

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2002\02\01@215342 by Jon Baker

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Only in the movies :-)

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> Hi 2 All
>
> Did someone met/saw a very small RF transmitters? I mean very small 4-5 mm
> size.
> low voltage and very low power.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tal

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2002\02\01@215756 by Randy Glenn

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www.abacom-tech.com has some tiny transmitters

-Randy Glenn

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{Original Message removed}

2002\02\02@004636 by Giles Honeycutt

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Tal,
I am interested in something similar. I have a low budget project, I need a
simple RF transmitter and receiver.  I have been looking for a off-the-shelf
keychain transmitter.  But I can't seem to find any cheap ones.  All I have
found is over $20.00
I found a gag gift that has a transmitter and receiver at Spensers and it is
only $16.99!  It has a keychain remote in it!!!
Anyway, I need a source for keychain remote and a low cost receiver.
Anyway, some info that this list gave me in the recent past is summed up in
a few links for RF stuff:

home.att.net/~wzmicro/rf.html
http://www.rentron.com/ or www.rentron.com/PicBasic/RemoteControl.htm
http://www.rfdigital.com/
http://www.micrel.com/index.shtml
Maybe something will help, if you find a good keychain remote, please let me
know.

Best regards,
Giles




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2002\02\02@005250 by Tom Messenger

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You wrote:
>> Did someone met/saw a very small RF transmitters? I mean very small 4-5 mm
>> size.
>> low voltage and very low power.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tal

Yes. I just bought one. Basically, it is a Colpitts oscillator - LC tuned,
single stage, bipolar transistor. It is the entire RF section of a
'wireless doorbell' I purchased recently. A Holtek style chip turns it on
and off at a rate determined by adressing jumpers so you can set up a
different code from your neighbor's doorbell.

Here's what I know about it.  In addition to the above, it starts up at
around 2 to 3 volts (although it normally operates from 12volts) and when
powered with 12 volts, pulls about 1.5mA including the Holtec controller.
The range is about 50 feet, unimpeded.

 There is about a one-half inch long antenna that runs, I think, from the
collector to the inductor to the power supply.  If you get your hand near
this, the output frequency drops .5 to 1 MHz. If you bring it near to a
large metal object, the freq goes up as much as 6 MHz. The receiver that
came with it can detect it over this range although the distance achievable
drops off. The Fo is 418MHz, more or less.  It is built with discrete parts
but I believe it could easily be built with surface mount parts and very
small - a few millimeters or so.

When I'm finished playing with it, I'm going to write up something for the
piclist regarding my application. It is something that may be of interest
to people like Lawrence Lile, for example.

Best regards,
Tom M.

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2002\02\02@011424 by Jon Baker

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(Seriously this time)

What type of transmitter do you need? Are we talking bugging devices for
speech or a simple tone generator
to switch something on?

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{Original Message removed}

2002\02\02@140845 by Tal Bejerano - AMC

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I need very small transmitters to implement it small device. I need large
quantity 100K to 1M pcs. transmitting only a few decimeters 30-60cm.
it should be even one-time use, so its should be very cheap.

Tal

{Original Message removed}

2002\02\02@162933 by Orbit Communications

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Tal,

How about an AM transmitter about the size of a capacitor ?

If you are interested, please email me off-list.

Best Regards

David Huisman
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
ORBIT COMMUNICATIONS
Reliable Wireless Solutions (Telemetry, Control, Monitoring ...)
Website : http://www.orbitcoms.com
PO Box 3469 Tuggerah
NSW 2259, AUSTRALIA
Phone: 61-2-4329-7765
Fax  : 61-2-4329-7893
Mobile: 61-413-715-986
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tal Bejerano - AMC" <.....kooterKILLspamspam.....ZAHAV.NET.IL>
To: <EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 6:03 AM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: RF Transmitters - Micro size


> I need very small transmitters to implement it small device. I need large
> quantity 100K to 1M pcs. transmitting only a few decimeters 30-60cm.
> it should be even one-time use, so its should be very cheap.
>
> Tal
>
> {Original Message removed}

2002\02\02@180037 by David VanHorn

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A PIC can be made to radiate quite nicely, and configured right, can be an
FSK transmitter.

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2002\02\02@193301 by M. Adam Davis

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Care to contribute schematics and code?  ;-)

I'm actually waiting for the rfPIC...

-Adam

David VanHorn wrote:

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2002\02\03@053637 by LesOtter

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Hello
Try this link.  Surface mount radio transmitters/receivers.

http://www.micrel.com/product-info/qwikradio.shtml

Regards
Les

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2002\02\04@022143 by Andrei B.

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--- Randy Glenn <picxpertspamspam_OUTCOGECO.CA> wrote:
> http://www.abacom-tech.com has some tiny transmitters
>
> -Randy Glenn
>

In France you might wanna try Conrad. I know this is the electornics
supplier Electronique Practique magazine advertises for most of it's
circuits.
Mostly they use such modules called Aurel (if I remember correctly).

In Romania there is only one place where such modules can be found,
working at 433MHz, (and that's about all the specs you can get) and
they can be found at Conex Electronic in Bucharest.

Vasile Surducan, if you know of any other sources, please let me know,
thank you.


=====
ing. Andrei Boros
Centrul pt. Tehnologia Informatiei
Societatea Romana de Radiodifuziune

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2002\02\04@023230 by Andrei B.

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--- "M. Adam Davis" <KILLspamadampicKILLspamspamUBASICS.COM> wrote:
> Care to contribute schematics and code?  ;-)

Schematics, yes.
If I rember correctly, I have such schematics somewhere in my archive,
gathered from various magazines.
I'll look for them and get back to you.


=====
ing. Andrei Boros
Centrul pt. Tehnologia Informatiei
Societatea Romana de Radiodifuziune

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2002\02\04@044349 by Claudio Tagliola

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Be carefull with Conrad, at least, don't build your product line
depending on stuff from Conrad, you never know when a product is
discontinued there.

{Original Message removed}

2002\02\04@102046 by Keith Christopher

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What are you looking to do with this transceiver ?
What freq ? There is TONS of FM band transceivers on
the WWW, a few caps, resistors, transistor and
inductor and your on the air. You can with SMT make a
small one, however your range is going to be limited.


Keith



--- Giles Honeycutt <spamBeGoneprogrammer1spamBeGonespamHOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2002\02\08@002036 by Giles Honeycutt

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Keith,
I am working on a novelty project.  I am currently looking at a product
purchased at Spencer's gift shop.  It is a remote controlled fart machine.
You can see the product I purshed at:
http://www.thefartmachine.com/product.htm
I did not buy it at that link, I only found the link by searching for the
name on the package.
Anyway, the receiver (aka noise maker) needs 4 AAA batteries.
The transmitter comes with a small alkaline battery already installed!! It
is a A23 12VDC The transmitter has a LED indicator and is in a relatively
nice keychain car alarm style package.
I am considering using the board out of the fart machine to do what I need,
and to use the keychain remote as it sits.
But it is interesting looking at the circuit boards involved to see how
simple they are.

Anyway, the shelf price at the high priced Spencer's is 16.99 and I have
seen it on the net for much less.  I don't think I can build my own
transmitter and receiver for less.  My target is about 100 units.
Anyway, I am considering tracing out the circuit used is this device for
reference.  As of yet, I do not even know the frequency this thing works at.
I know the transmitter is very simple, and the receiver is using a quad
opamp.

Any input will be appreciated,
Giles



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2002\02\08@090503 by M. Adam Davis

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Just be careful - the designs in these toys are not robust or reliable,
and may be triggered by something other than the transmitter.  Consider
putting a PIC on both ends (or even a rolling code setup) with a low
data rate to secure the transmissions somewhat.

-Adam

Giles Honeycutt wrote:

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2002\02\08@092355 by Al Williams

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Our "Basic Stamp Project of the Month" this month is relevant. The
system I show is slow and one way, but it is cheap (maybe not quite as
cheap as the -um- machine) and readily available. A PIC could drive it
much faster (much of the slow speed is to allow for the Stamp's
processing latency) although it would never be high speed. In theory,
you could adapt the
system for two way, although I haven't personally done this.

Anyway, might spur some ideas. The project of the month changes each
month and is always at: http://www.al-williams.com/awce/som.htm

We call it the Basic Stamp Project of the Month, but we occasionally do
PIC, SX, or just general-interest projects.

Good Luck!

Al Williams
AWC
* Check out our PIC Programming Tutorial
http://www.al-williams.com/pictutor




> {Original Message removed}

2002\02\08@095818 by Tim H.

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Hi Al,

I've been pursuing an RF link myself so any relevant info I find is
helpful. So, I decided to check out your design. I skipped ahead to see
what kind of encoding method you're using. I then came across this:

"A short pulse is a 0 and a long pulse is a 1.
This is Manchester encoding and has the benefit of being self-clocking
and relatively immune to time variations."

From what I know, this isn't Manchester; it's pulse-coded data. It's
what Sony uses for their IR protocol. Manchester on the other hand
represents 1s and 0s by change of signal level. Each bit uses the same
amount of time but it cuts your total bandwidth in half. To send a logic
one, you hold the line low for half a bit period then yank it high. For
a logic zero, you hold the line high for half a bit period and pull it
low. Of course, this isn't carved in stone, I've seen designs reverse
this.

If I'm totally wrong, please forgive me.

-Tim Hamel

Al Williams wrote:
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2002\02\08@101311 by Al Williams

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Yes, you are correct of course. This is sort of a poor man's Manchester
because it doesn't require a PLL to recover the clock. Real Manchester
doesn't have to use level shifts -- some use phase shifts. But either
way, the shift is in the middle of the bit boundaries.

Anyway, yes -- that was pretty much incorrect and thanks for keeping me
on my toes.

Al Williams
AWC
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> {Original Message removed}

2002\02\08@115805 by Walter Banks

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> > Manchester on the other hand represents 1s and 0s by
> > change of signal level. Each bit uses the same amount
> > of time but it cuts your total bandwidth in half. To
> > send a logic one, you hold the line low for half
> > a bit period then yank it high. For a logic zero, you hold
> > the line high for half a bit period and pull it low. Of
> > course, this isn't carved in stone, I've seen designs reverse this.
> >

The lowest cost RF system I have seen is a project I worked on
quite a few years ago for store electronic price tags. The
system could send and receive information from individual
price tags in the store (Typical grocery store 7000)
The data rate was slow and so was the RF. The processor clock ran
at 200 kHz the transmitter was the processor clock gated through
a pair of CMOS xor's controlled from the processor to
have complimentary outputs into a three or four turn coil of wire
as an antenna when it was transmitting.

The data rate was about 10 bits per second Manchester encoded. The
amazing thing was how well it worked, lots of electrical noise
around. The manufactured cost of the tag (processor 1 or 2 cmos
parts, case and lcd display was about $4.00 in the volume they
used.

--------------------------------------------------------

In an act of sheer brute force I was treated to a demonstration
a few years ago of a high speed processor bit bashing AM radio
through what was essentially a PWM and about a foot of wire
wrap wire.


w..

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2002\02\18@234512 by Daniel Webb

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On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Walter Banks wrote:

> The lowest cost RF system I have seen is a project I worked on
> quite a few years ago for store electronic price tags. The
> system could send and receive information from individual
> price tags in the store (Typical grocery store 7000)
> The data rate was slow and so was the RF. The processor clock ran
> at 200 kHz the transmitter was the processor clock gated through
> a pair of CMOS xor's controlled from the processor to
> have complimentary outputs into a three or four turn coil of wire
> as an antenna when it was transmitting.
>
> The data rate was about 10 bits per second Manchester encoded. The
> amazing thing was how well it worked, lots of electrical noise
> around. The manufactured cost of the tag (processor 1 or 2 cmos
> parts, case and lcd display was about $4.00 in the volume they
> used.

 That sounds like exactly what I am looking for... how did the reciever
work?  Can you give any more information?

Daniel

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