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'[PIC]: PayPal (Was: Product pricing)'
2003\04\16@164944 by erholm (QAC)

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Well, I can't say that I'm a big player in the e-commerce
world in any way, but I'v taken a close look at what PayPal
offers. The thinks *I* like with payPal are :

- When bying, my credit card information stays with PayPal.
 It isn't sent to the seller. Makes it more comfortable to
 buy from smaller/unknown sellers (and from others to buy
 from me, I hope !).

- When selling, Paypal takes aprox 5% commission which I
 think is reasonable for there service.

- The fee for a transfer to a Swedish bank account is aprox
 $0.80 USD each time, which I think is *very* resonable.
 (The fee for a transfer to a US bank account is $0.00...)

- Paypal have a nice online HTML generator to generate the
 code to put on your webe page by filling in some web forms.

And the Paypal pages that a buyer (that wasn't a PayPal user
before) sees are rather clean with a good usability, I think.

Anyway, I don't have much experience from online shopping/selling
but I'm still impressed with the simplicity and ease of PayPal.

Doing all the credit card processing myself, would be way more work.
Now I just get a notification mail from PayPal, and I'll ship the stuff.

And, just remembered, if you have some local order processing system,
you can get specialy formatted (machine readable "records") mails
from PayPal with payment/order information that can be automaticly
loaded into your system for further processing.

Best Regards
Jan-Erik Soderholm.

Olin Lathrop wrote :

>I've looked at Pay Pal.  That might be OK for hobbyists, but I think it's
>too much hassle for the customer.  I know I've just moved on whenever a
>site required me to have a Pay Pal account.

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2003\04\16@224903 by Sergio Masci

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----- Original Message -----
From: Jan-erik Soderholm (QAC) <.....Jan-erik.SoderholmKILLspamspam@spam@PAC.ERICSSON.SE>
To: <PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: PayPal (Was: Product pricing)


> Well, I can't say that I'm a big player in the e-commerce
> world in any way, but I'v taken a close look at what PayPal
> offers. The thinks *I* like with payPal are :
>
> - When bying, my credit card information stays with PayPal.
>   It isn't sent to the seller. Makes it more comfortable to
>   buy from smaller/unknown sellers (and from others to buy
>   from me, I hope !).

A buyer is protected by a credit card transation. If the merchant is a thief
and tries to take your money, the card issuer will protect you (they will
give you your money back even if they cannot get it back from the thief
themselves) and the merchant will end up in jail. Getting a merchant account
is not so easy that any thief can just set himself up in buisness and rip
people off. The main problem with credit card fraud is people using your
card details to buy goods and ship them to themselves or useing them to make
fake cards and buy things from stores which they then take away. If a credit
card aquirer notices that a high proportion of credit card fraud is linked
to a specific merchant account they will investigate (i.e. a high proportion
of people doing buisness with XYZ are involved in fraudulent transations
somewhere else, XYZ will be investigated).

In any case many merchants opt not to even see your credit card details,
they hand you over to the PSP credit card page (which is set up to look like
the rest of merchants site but sits on the PSP secure server) when it is
time to enter your credit card details. In such a case the merchant would
get a transaction ID which he would use to refer to your credit card later
if there were a problem with your goods (say you returned them or they got
lost in the post and you requested a refund). The credit card page can be
made to give people a warm fuzzy feeling by plastering it with all kinds of
credetials belonging to the PSP and certification authority such as
verisign. Notices informing the customer that they are now on a server
belonging to a bank are quite comforting, specially when backed up by the
magic lock at the bottom of the browser window.

>
> - When selling, Paypal takes aprox 5% commission which I
>   think is reasonable for there service.
>

Direct credit card transaction is aprox 2%

> - The fee for a transfer to a Swedish bank account is aprox
>   $0.80 USD each time, which I think is *very* resonable.
>   (The fee for a transfer to a US bank account is $0.00...)

No fund transfer fee, no currency exchange fee (the customer pays it) simple
straight forward low monthy account maintence fee (just like a normal bank
account).

>
> - Paypal have a nice online HTML generator to generate the
>   code to put on your webe page by filling in some web forms.
>
> And the Paypal pages that a buyer (that wasn't a PayPal user
> before) sees are rather clean with a good usability, I think.

Yes they kind of suck you into opening an account bit by bit, page after
page. When I first met this I felt very mislead. I wanted to buy some goods
but instead I just got pulled futher and further into paypal. Eventually I
just dumped that purchase feeling bitter that I had wasted so much time.

I looked at PayPal again many months later (as a seller) to see if their
account opening stratergy had changed. It seemed different but still long
winded and still the long wait before getting the account opened.

>
> Anyway, I don't have much experience from online shopping/selling
> but I'm still impressed with the simplicity and ease of PayPal.
>
> Doing all the credit card processing myself, would be way more work.
> Now I just get a notification mail from PayPal, and I'll ship the stuff.

No it would not :-)

With credit card payments using a mechant account, shopping cart and PSP I
get money paid directly into my bank account without me having to do credit
card processing myself. It is all automated. And having credit card payment
facilities help attract the impulse buyer. He sees your stuff, is impressed
and buys it. With PayPay he gets immediately put off by the delay in setting
up a PayPay account. What is the point in openning a PayPay account
immediately, he cannot buy the goods immediately, so your potential customer
wanders off intending to set up a PayPal account later. Half an hour later
he has discovered several other products that look like yours, not as
impressive but by now he is so saturated with buzz words and feature lists
and it's 2am and he just wants to get it by the weekend so he can play with
it and ... there is an immediate credit card payment facility on your
competitors site...

Sorry I looked at PayPal over a year ago as a merchant and I was horified by
the terms and condition. No thanks.

>
> And, just remembered, if you have some local order processing system,
> you can get specialy formatted (machine readable "records") mails
> from PayPal with payment/order information that can be automaticly
> loaded into your system for further processing.

I can also do this with my credit card system. Order fulfilment is automatic
with emails flying off in all directions to all parties concerned, databases
getting updated, reports being generated. And any special offers I may want
to implement are all controlled centrally.

>
> Best Regards
> Jan-Erik Soderholm.

Regards
Sergio Masci

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2003\04\17@042623 by

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Well, I sure you are right.
As I said, I'm new to this, and PayPal has
worked for me so far...
Jan-Erik.

Sergio Masci wrote:

[Some interesting notes about creditcard payments
and PayPal...]

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2003\04\17@045132 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> Well, I can't say that I'm a big player in the e-commerce
> world in any way, but I'v taken a close look at what PayPal
> offers. The thinks *I* like with payPal are :

(snip)

I agree with what you like, and I use PayPal too. But there are also
some things I don't like:

- the conversion rate they use from $ to Euro is bad (for me)
- when I price my stuff in Euro's I can't have an automatic shipping fee
(which is available for pricing in dollars)
- there are some horror stories on the web about accounts suddenly and
(in practice) irrevocably blocked.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products

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2003\04\17@051453 by

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Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

>I agree with what you like, and I use PayPal too. But there are also
>some things I don't like:
>
>- the conversion rate they use from $ to Euro is bad (for me)

Te same to Swedish crowns (SEK), but I'll have to calculate
with that.

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2003\04\17@231759 by Roger, in Bangkok

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This one bit me over a year ago.  The instant they sent their debit and
credit check, they froze my account with no explanation or human
contact.  If anybody has a real email address for contact it would be
greatly appreciated.

On another note, does anybody have any idea how to solve my problem of
receiving doubles of every post sent to this list?

Regards/Roger, in Bangkok


{Original Message removed}

2003\04\17@234151 by Sean Alcorn - PIC Stuff

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On Friday, Apr 18, 2003, at 13:12 Australia/Sydney, Roger, in Bangkok
wrote:

> This one bit me over a year ago.  The instant they sent their debit and
> credit check, they froze my account with no explanation or human
> contact.  If anybody has a real email address for contact it would be
> greatly appreciated.

This happened to my friend in Taiwan. They claimed that residents of
Taiwan were not allowed to operate PayPal accounts. What about the over
US$300 that he had accumulated from eBay sales we asked?

No reply. :-)

$300 might not be much - but if they do it to a lot of people!!!

Cheers,

Sean

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On Friday, Apr 18, 2003, at 13:12 Australia/Sydney, Roger, in Bangkok
wrote:


<excerpt><fixed>This one bit me over a year ago.  The instant they
sent their debit and

credit check, they froze my account with no explanation or human

contact.  If anybody has a real email address for contact it would be

greatly appreciated.

</fixed></excerpt><fixed>

This happened to my friend in Taiwan. They claimed that residents of
Taiwan were not allowed to operate PayPal accounts. What about the
over US$300 that he had accumulated from eBay sales we asked?


No reply. :-)


$300 might not be much - but if they do it to a lot of people!!!


Cheers,


Sean</fixed>


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2003\04\18@020346 by David Duffy

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>Roger:
>On another note, does anybody have any idea how to solve my problem of
>receiving doubles of every post sent to this list?

You're possibly subscribed with two email address that both go to you.
David...
___________________________________________
David Duffy        Audio Visual Devices P/L
U8, 9-11 Trade St, Cleveland 4163 Australia
Ph: +61 7 38210362   Fax: +61 7 38210281
New Web: http://www.audiovisualdevices.com.au
___________________________________________

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2003\04\18@023713 by Mike Singer

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Time mirror postings. If they come with

(2*38400 / 300 000) s delay, they certainly are

reflected from the Moon.

Another version is that something got wrong between
your mail software and provider.
You know old good "I gonna sit right down and write
myself a letter" by Bing Crosby. Send yourself a letter
from different address. If it'll get doubled, PICList
is not guilty.

Mike:-)


David Duffy wrote:
> > On another note, does anybody have any idea how
> > to solve my problem of receiving doubles of every
> > post sent to this list?
>
> You're possibly subscribed with two email address
> that both go to you.

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2003\04\18@042027 by Dave King

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At 08:12 PM 17/04/03, you wrote:
>This one bit me over a year ago.  The instant they sent their debit and
>credit check, they froze my account with no explanation or human
>contact.  If anybody has a real email address for contact it would be
>greatly appreciated.

They are in the phone book and you can actually talk to real people. Funny
that they don't
list that contact info on any webpage. All the contact info was on one of
the paypal horror
pages mentioned but I don't recall which one..

Dave

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