Post by thread:[PIC]: New Burner Motivation (assumption).

part 1 219 bytes content-type:text/plain; (decoded 7bit) Could "The PICLIST Development Project" be used to program attached thing? Does anybody know other PIC clones? What is Microchip official opinion on clones? Mike. part 2 8097 bytes content-type:image/gif; (decode) part 3 3002 bytes content-type:application/x-compressed; (decode) part 4 136 bytes -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email spam_OUTlistservTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Mike, > Could "The PICLIST Development Project" be used > to program attached thing? I could not see why not. Who makes these? > Does anybody know other PIC clones? There used to be quite a few companies in Taiwan. Most have stopped making them as far as I know. > What is Microchip official opinion on clones? I had heard that they cracked down on them, but I am not 100% sure. Regards, Sean -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email .....listservKILLspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> What is Microchip official opinion on clones? They want everyone to run out and buy them or course. Duh! ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

On Sun, Aug 18, 2002 at 07:59:21PM +1000, Sean Alcorn (SYD) wrote: > Mike, > > > Could "The PICLIST Development Project" be used > > to program attached thing? > > I could not see why not. Who makes these? If we ever come to a consensus, you will. It's the Designer/PICbase/PBK box we've been talking about the last few weeks. I changed the name for the Executive Overview thread to remove bias both for a particular design and from the Beginner Only slant. And the answer to your question Mike is yes. The box will have a ICSP port so that it can program other attached PIC boards. If you're thinking about other processor types, then maybe the CUMP will be more your speed. BAJ -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email .....listservKILLspam.....mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Byron, > If we ever come to a consensus, you will. It's the Designer/PICbase/PBK > box we've been talking about the last few weeks. I changed the name for > the Executive Overview thread to remove bias both for a particular design > and from the Beginner Only slant. I was talking about the attached files in Mike's post - of the PIC compatible MCUs Regards, Sean -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email EraseMElistservspam_OUTTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

>> What is Microchip official opinion on clones? > They want everyone to run out and buy them or course. Duh! I'm sure their legal department would be interested in any PIC clone that becomes available. It's probably not a good idea unless one has a great legal team and deep pockets. Jim {demonstrating a firm grasp of the obvious) -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

On Sun, Aug 18, 2002 at 10:55:36PM +1000, Sean Alcorn (SYD) wrote: > Byron, > > > If we ever come to a consensus, you will. It's the Designer/PICbase/PBK > > box we've been talking about the last few weeks. I changed the name for > > the Executive Overview thread to remove bias both for a particular design > > and from the Beginner Only slant. > > I was talking about the attached files in Mike's post - of the PIC > compatible MCUs Sorry I missed that. I thought you were taking about the programmer, not the target chip. There didn't seem to be a programming specification anywhere. Hold on a virtual minute and let me see if I can find out... OK I'm back and I found it here: http://cat.pinnacle.com.tw/ic/emc/8bit/other/PROGRAM%20TIMING.pdf The short answer is no. The programming pinout and algorithm is completely different that the standard microchip one. BTW these only seem to be OTP. Mike, do you know if they have a windowed part that's eraseable. I'd guess that this part myst be extremely price sensitive if it's worth taking a look at. Can you give a cost estimate? BAJ -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email @spam@listservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Jim Ewald wrote: >>> What is Microchip official opinion on clones? > >> They want everyone to run out and buy them or course. Duh! > >I'm sure their legal department would be interested in any PIC clone >that becomes available. It's probably not a good idea unless one has a >great legal team and deep pockets. You are assuming all the time that they would be in a country where they can be sued and the lawsuit would get over within less than a lifetime or two. This may be slightly wrong. Peter -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email KILLspamlistservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Hi Peter, Obviously you have never had to deal with Kim Van Herk. She's Microchip's IP lawyer and she is not very imaginative with regards to what she considers improper use of Microchip's registered marks. Her task is to make sure the term "PIC", "PICmicro(R) microcontroller", "MPLAB-ICD", "PICStart Plus", etc. are NEVER used incorrectly over the internet. in books, or casual conversation and it is a task that she takes very seriously. To be fair, she's a nice person, but she is very devoted to her task. And, while even in the United States where you are protected by the 1st Amendment with regards to how you refer to something, Microchip can put the screws to you in other ways (like not allowing you to distribute the MPLAB-ICD with your product or getting an injunction against selling a product in the U.S. (or any country that has an IP treaty with the U.S.) because the registered marks referenced in the product are not approved by their owner). I'm mentioning this for the PBK; we have to make sure that the project we only use Microchip's products and make sure that we reference them correctly. <on soap box> I don't agree with this policy and I have told Microchip this. It is a real "glass boardroom" legal response to the issue of IP protection and does not take into account the expectations of the WWW community and treaties people and companies that would develop products and services for the PICmicro MCU as potential infringers, criminals or, at best, general miscreants. </on soap box> It's an emotional topic for me because it has caused me (and my publisher) more gas than you could ever believe. myke {Original Message removed}

source= http://www.piclist.com/postbot.asp?id=piclist\2002\08\18\173926a The "PIC"List has survived (so far) without a call from Ms. Van Herk or other legal eagles at Microchip for some unknown reason... Every other thing with PIC in the name has been shut down. Perhaps our affiliation with MIT or the fact that we do not sell anything for profit. Perhaps we are small enough to not raise her ire. I'd love to know what is on her "can" and "can't" lists in advance so we can avoid stepping on toes, but I'm afraid to ask... I don't want to draw any attention. <GRIN> I wonder if the list might be required to switch to the microList or something like that in the future. --- James Newton: PICList.com webmaster, former Admin #3 RemoveMEjamesnewtonTakeThisOuTpiclist.com 1-619-652-0593 phone http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786 PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email spamBeGonelistservspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Ms. Van Herk and Microchip has to be aggressive with protecting their trade names. Otherwise the trade names could become public domain and they would loose them. If lots of people started saying things like "Motorola makes a great PIC" and Microchip did nothing, then the term "PIC" would become any micro controller and not just micro controllers made by Microchip. For example, "Aspirin" was a trademark of the Bayer Corporation. Of course Bayer could not protect their trade name in the US during World War II since Bayer is a German company. {Original Message removed}

8/19/02 1:17:55 AM, Nelson Hochberg <TakeThisOuTnelsonEraseMEspam_OUTNOSUFFERING.COM> wrote: >Ms. Van Herk and Microchip has to be aggressive with protecting their trade >names. Otherwise the trade names could become public domain and they would >loose them. If lots of people started saying things like "Motorola makes a >great PIC" and Microchip did nothing, then the term "PIC" would become any >micro controller and not just micro controllers made by Microchip. For >example, "Aspirin" was a trademark of the Bayer Corporation. Of course >Bayer could not protect their trade name in the US during World War II since >Bayer is a German company. Yes, they're legally required to ask people using the name generically not to. However, using the name generically in comment is *not* a violation of the Lanham Act, which governs trademarks, so all they can do is ask; they have to give you notice, but the notice isn't binding on you. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu

Byron A Jeff wrote: . > ... here: > http://cat.pinnacle.com.tw/ic/emc/8bit/other/PROGRAM%20TIMING.pdf > > The short answer is no. The programming pinout and > algorithm is completely different that the standard > microchip one. > > BTW these only seem to be OTP. Mike, do you know if > they have a windowed part that's eraseable. > > I'd guess that this part myst be extremely price > sensitive if it's worth taking a look at. Can you > give a cost estimate? . I'm not sure the above-mentioned .pdf is the only document on programming the chip. Why should they bother with a windowed or flash parts? For developing they could use original parts. They aim at mass very cheap non-updatable market. These parts are present here in Ukraine, though price information is unavailable until you show real intentions to buy them. Also there are rather cheap devices with these parts inside. I was called to repair some of them. I asked what parts are inside, then started to collect docs. The rest is on the List. From your URL "pinnacle.com.tw/ic/emc": "Elan Microelectronic Corp" http://www.emc.com.tw/ subdivision of "Pinnacle Technology Corporation" http://www.pinnacle.com.tw/ --------------- Mike. PS: by the way, the things' outputs could be programmed as open drains, if I'm not mistaken. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 09:29:57AM +0300, Mike Singer wrote: > Byron A Jeff wrote: > . > > ... here: > > cat.pinnacle.com.tw/ic/emc/8bit/other/PROGRAM%20TIMING.pdf > > > > The short answer is no. The programming pinout and > > algorithm is completely different that the standard > > microchip one. > > > > BTW these only seem to be OTP. Mike, do you know if > > they have a windowed part that's eraseable. > > > > I'd guess that this part myst be extremely price > > sensitive if it's worth taking a look at. Can you > > give a cost estimate? > . > > I'm not sure the above-mentioned .pdf is the only > document on programming the chip. Neither am I. But it's what I found in a couple of minutes of searching. > Why should they bother with a windowed or flash parts? Because when one is developing, one doesn't necessarily like to burn through a rack or two worth of parts to get the design right. > For developing they could use original parts. They > aim at mass very cheap non-updatable market. See above. Windowed parts are recyclable for development only. Of course OTP or mask programmed would be used one the development is complete. > These parts are present here in Ukraine, though price > information is unavailable until you show real > intentions to buy them. Well that sucks. How can you do a price comparison if you don't know the price? BAJ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Byron A Jeff wrote: >> These parts are present here in Ukraine, though price >> information is unavailable until you show real >> intentions to buy them. > >Well that sucks. How can you do a price comparison if you don't know the >price? Now, let's see, where did I hear this before (every day for ten years or so) ? Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.