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'[PIC]: Coming to a City, State or Country near you'
2003\05\09@095229 by Russell McMahon

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flavicon
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I've tagged this [PIC]: as it is the PIC community I wish to address. To
limit size I've put most of the material on a web page.

Starting on June 27th my wife and I plus a friend plan a whistle-stop world
tour covering South West USA (2 weeks), Europe (4 weeks), UK (2 weeks) &
Bangkok (2 days). Around the world in 60 days. We will be accompanied by our
daughter in Europe.

We are interested in receiving suggestions from people whose territory we
are about to travel through about what they consider worth seeing in their
area. Our interests lean more towards the outdoors and natural grandeur but
man made and citified have their place too. We are aiming at seeing as much
as we can in the time available - against the better advice of some. While
it is absolutely impossible to see everything that we would like to, if we
know about notable features that we are passing by in our travels, we may be
able to fit more in, even if it's only a flying glance.

If you are interested in providing suggestions please see details at
http://tinyurl.com/b6p7

It would be interesting to put faces to some of the names we've met via the
net, but the circumstances will allow this in only a very few cases - so far
we have two internet acquired friends we will be meeting in the US.

       Russell McMahon

____________________________________________


USA: June 27th Los Angeles, San Diego, brief foray into Mexico, then via
Lake Havasa or to Phoenix via Yuma.
Flagstaff, Meteor Crater, Grand Canyon, Las Vegas via Hoover Dam (July the
4th in Vegas!), Death Valley, to Sierra Nevadas/Lone Pine/Independence,
Yosemite NP, San Francisco, LA via Pacific Coast
12 July Depart for Paris 8:40 pm. phew!

Europe: Route details on website shortly. 4 weeks. Skimming through France,
Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Italy, Monaco, Czech & Slovak republics,
Netherlands, Luxembourg, Belgium.

UK: Heathrow, London Cambridge, Oxford, Stratford-on-Avon, Nottingham Forest
to York, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Lake District to Middlewich. Chester,
Jodrell Bank, Dublin (fly from Liverpool), Wicklow, Arklow, Avoca, back to
mainland. Wales (Portmeirion) London. Collapse!
25 Aug  Depart for Bangkok at 9.55 pm.

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2003\05\09@101228 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> Our interests lean more towards the outdoors and
> natural grandeur but
> man made and citified have their place too.

As a Dutch I would suggest that with those criteria (and with most
others as well) you should certainly skip the Netherlands. :)

Wouter van Ooijen

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2003\05\09@104718 by

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I could not find Sweden or any other nothern
country (Norway, Finland) in your list, so you are
missing the best part of Europe. :-)

The midnight sun at "Nordkap" is probably the absolute
opposit from the Netherlands, from a natural grandeur
standpoint, or what do you say, Wouter ?

:-) :-)


Now, if I should get realy serious for a moment. After reading
the travel plan in your post, in my *personal* opinion (and nothing
personal!), but I think it's a waste of money.
13 European countries in 4 weeks ? You would get more out of a couple
of photo books from your local library.
Less then 2 and a half days per country, phu !

We (my family) was 4 weeks in France last summer, and we
was just skimming the Paris region and the Brittany...

Jan-Erik.

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2003\05\09@105206 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> The midnight sun at "Nordkap" is probably the absolute
> opposit from the Netherlands, from a natural grandeur
> standpoint, or what do you say, Wouter ?

I've never seen the NL, but I have toured Finland (with a detour to
StPetersburg) and I loved it.

Wouter van Ooijen

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2003\05\09@111259 by Sean H. Breheny

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Hi Russell (and anyone else going to Ireland),

I have to recommend very strongly that you try to see something performed
at, Siamsa Tire, the National Folk Theatre of Ireland:

http://www.siamsatire.com/

especially one of the original shows, more oriented toward the traditional
music and dance. It's located in Tralee, County Kerry.

If you are looking for natural beauty in Ireland, definitely check out the
West coast.

Of course, I also have to object to Ireland being included in the "UK "
heading, too, but I won't open that can of worms any further here :-)

Sean

>UK: Heathrow, London Cambridge, Oxford, Stratford-on-Avon, Nottingham Forest
>to York, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Lake District to Middlewich. Chester,
>Jodrell Bank, Dublin (fly from Liverpool), Wicklow, Arklow, Avoca, back to
>mainland. Wales (Portmeirion) London. Collapse!

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2003\05\09@111711 by Madhu Annapragada

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why skip the Netherlands??...lovely place..from what I have read..plan to
visit once I catch up with my project wish list in about 10 years..
Madhu

{Original Message removed}

2003\05\09@112929 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> why skip the Netherlands??...lovely place..from what I have
> read..plan to
> visit once I catch up with my project wish list in about 10 years..

NL is a peacefull and lovely place to live and work (although it does
not escape its small alotment of violence), but rather lacking in the
natural beauty aspect (unless you consider some parts of Amsterdam to
match that criterium). And not much man-made beauty either IMHO. Just a
lot of quite sensible people packed much too closely together. I fully
agree with the right-wing politicians here that NL is full - but I
disagree with them on the root cause: I think NL is too full with native
Dutchmen.

Wouter van Ooijen

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2003\05\09@121201 by Olin Lathrop

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> We are interested in receiving suggestions from people whose territory
> we are about to travel through about what they consider worth seeing in
> their area. Our interests lean more towards the outdoors and natural
> grandeur but man made and citified have their place too.

I looked at your travel plans, and they are packed!  You'll need a
vacation after you get home from this vacation.

I live in New England (north east US), but have traveled accross the US
and southern Canada something like 19 times by car.  These travels
deliberately gravitated towards natural areas like national parks and away
from cities, so that's all I'm qualified to comment on.  Your schedule is
so full, I don't see how you could possibly incorporate a new suggestion,
so I'll just ignore it and mention a few things as they come to mind.

The Grand Canyon is a must-see.  No matter how you get there, it will take
a while, however.  The north rim is 3000 feet higher, moister, and cooler.
A definite plus for July.

Bryce Canyon in my opinion is one of the great overlooked jewels.  The
rock formations there are interesting, beautiful, and nothing like
anything else I've ever seen.  However, it's not easy to get to, and
impossible to blow in and out of in a day.  Last time I stayed there a
whole week.

Arches is also a one of a kind, but even harder to get to and back.

The Sonora Desert itself it fascinating and a totally different experience
if you come from a wetter and cooler climate.  One of my favorite places
to chill out for a while in the Sonora Desert is the little known
Guadalupe Mountains National Park.  Probably totally impractical for you.
Sorry, I just can't relate to the whirlwind approach.

Carlsbad Caverns is well known, and for good reason.  It really is
impressive.  If you do go there, try to attend the evening ranger program
at the cave mouth.  Watching 1/4 million bats fly out of the cave at dusk
is a unique experience.

Yosemite Valley is scenic from the right vantage point, but otherwise
overrun and overrated in my opinion.  Tuolome meadows, Tenya Lake
(http://www.embedinc.com/olin/photos.htm), and the surrouding alpine area
is beautiful, but not unique as pretty alpine areas go, and rather busy.
To really see the beauty of Yosemite, you have to get into the back
country, although that requires time.

The redwoods of the northern California coast are worth seeing once.
Here's one you really can drive to, hop out for an hour, then drive on.
The best ones are north of San Francisco, but you can also see them on
your drive south from there.


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2003\05\09@140029 by David Minkler

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Russell,

We found that Lake Havasu wasn't worth our time.  As Olin suggested, the
Grand Canyon is a definite *must see*.  If you are traveling from
Phoenix up to Flagstaff, you might find a stop at Montezuma's Castle or
Montezuma's Well (cliff dwellings south of Sedona) worthwhile.  THE
DRIVE UP THROUGH SEDONA TO FLAGSTAFF IS TRULY BREATHTAKING.  For a more
up close and personal look at cliff dwellings, stop at Walnut Canyon
just east of Flagstaff (about an hour or so of moderate hike to see the
whole place - take water).  Meteor Crater (already on your itinerary) is
worth the stop and won't take that much time.  Last time I was there,
they wouldn't let you hike down into the crater (apparently some gal
tried the climb in high heels with unpleasant results and their
insurance company intervened) but they didn't mind you taking a rim
walk.

> The redwoods of the northern California coast are worth seeing once.
> Here's one you really can drive to, hop out for an hour, then drive on.
> The best ones are north of San Francisco, but you can also see them on
> your drive south from there.

Thanks Olin!  I'd forgotten how nice the redwoods are.  They've just
sort of become a part of 'over the river and through the (red)woods to
grandmother's house we go'.

Have a great trip!

Dave

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2003\05\09@141012 by Alan B. Pearce

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>The Grand Canyon is a must-see.  No matter how you get there, it
>will take a while, however.  The north rim is 3000 feet higher,
>moister, and cooler. A definite plus for July.

Agreed. It does not matter how many pictures you see of this place, none of
them give you any real sort of feeling for just how big a slit in the ground
this place is. And while you are reminisce on the point that (AFAIK) a new
Zealander is still the only person to have boated all the way up the canyon,
rapids and all. Any doubters should check National Geographic for the late
50's or early 60's IIRC.

>Yosemite Valley is scenic from the right vantage point, but
>otherwise overrun and overrated in my opinion.

But in the absence of anything else like this "back home" this place is also
"awesome". One place I would like to go back to, preferably in the spring
when the baby animals are around.

>The redwoods of the northern California coast are worth
>seeing once.

Did not get to Northern California, but there are trips you can do from
Yosemite to see some redwoods. Again worth doing to compare how high they
are compared to Kauri (which get to a similar diameter at the base).

If you are driving around national parks, keep your camera at the ready. One
of the items I had some trouble getting used to was the traffic jams that
formed wherever an animal showed up. Have a fantastic memory of driving one
of the roads in Yellowstone N.P. with a bison moving parallel to us about
20-30 feet away, going the same direction. Everyone seems to appreciate that
you do not annoy the animals, and most of the ones that live in national
Parks seem to be reasonably tolerant of the "townies" coming to look at
them.


On the continent look to do a lot of train travel. It is reasonably priced,
and mostly good at being on time, unlike trains in the UK. Most ticket
vendors have excellent English (but my experience is limited to Germany) and
are very helpful. If you want to plan travel before you go, check this
website. Do get yourself at least one trip on an ICE in Germany. I believe
the Thalys is very similar in France for speed and comfort.
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en
It lets you plan your travel trips, and is good for outside Germany as well,
if you are connecting with German trains.

When in Oxford give me a call. I live at Didcot, about 12 miles south, and
work in the Space Science department of Rutherford Appleton Lab. Can
possibly show you around a bit of it if you have a bit of free time.


Alan B. Pearce
R25 Rm 1-122
Rutherford Appleton Laboratory
Chilton
Didcot
OXON OX11 OQX
United Kingdom

Tel +44 1235 44 6532
Fax +44 1235 44 5848

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2003\05\09@143553 by William Chops Westfield

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   NL is a peacefull and lovely place to live and work (although it does
   not escape its small alotment of violence), but rather lacking in the
   natural beauty aspect...

Hmm.  Some years ago, my wife and I did one of those two-week whirlwind
tours of europe, including some time in the Netherlands, where we visitted a
windmill/canals, a small-scale cheese factory, and the amsterdam (wholesale)
flower market.  While I suppose none of those quite matches the natural
granduer of the grand canyon, we were pretty favorably impressed.  A place
with quiet beauty and quaintness, without as much "touristy" as many places.

BillW

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2003\05\09@160809 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 12:10 PM 5/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>The Grand Canyon is a must-see.  No matter how you get there, it will take
>a while, however.  The north rim is 3000 feet higher, moister, and cooler.
>A definite plus for July.

Definitely! It's one place that isn't over-hyped. Try to get there in the
early morning or around sunset to get the full effect of the size and
myriad colors. Personally, I'd give the meteor crater a miss, I found it a
waste of time. A bit of time wandering around Sedona or a jeep trip in the
Sonoran desert would more appeal to me. YMMV, of course.

>The redwoods of the northern California coast are worth seeing once.
>Here's one you really can drive to, hop out for an hour, then drive on.
>The best ones are north of San Francisco, but you can also see them on
>your drive south from there.

They are impressive.

BTW, August in Bangkok? Argh. Its REALLY, REALLY hot and HUMID
there (rainy season). Very exotic though, and the Wats and other sights
will keep you busy for a couple of days, easily.  Did I mention it's hot?

Best regard,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
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2003\05\09@161716 by Dave VanHorn

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If you're driving through I-80 from Reno twoards Sacremento, there's Donner
Pass and my old home of Dutch Flat.
Dutch Flat is where they sold subscriptions (like stock) for the
transcontinental railroad.  Most of the original buildings in the downtown
section are still standing, and still in use, other than the hotel.  The
road north from the center of town leads into an abandoned hydraulic gold
mine, and down through a series of switchbacks to the Bear river.

Stop in at the antiques store, and say Hi to Jean Fanning!

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2003\05\09@181319 by Dave Dilatush

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Russell wrote...

>USA: June 27th Los Angeles, San Diego, brief foray into Mexico, then via
>Lake Havasa or to Phoenix via Yuma.
>Flagstaff, Meteor Crater, Grand Canyon, Las Vegas via Hoover Dam (July the
>4th in Vegas!), Death Valley, to Sierra Nevadas/Lone Pine/Independence,
>Yosemite NP, San Francisco, LA via Pacific Coast

Some observations...

You spoke of a "whirlwind" trip, and all this in two weeks is
exactly that.  Whew!

From San Francisco down to LA via the coastal highway is
beautiful.  I loved that run, and plan on doing it again this
September.

Phoenix during the summer is HOT though, as they say, "it's a dry
heat".  I found the dryness itself extremely uncomfortable: my
skin and sinuses were both screaming by the time I got out of
there, and there was a constant, unshakeable, visceral, panicky
sensation of "Give me water! WATER!!!"  YMMV, of course...

The Grand Canyon can be awesome or disappointing, depending on
the weather.  When I saw it, there was a dark overcast and it all
looked flat and almost fake- a bit like a large mural.  The
thought I took away from the Grand Canyon was, "Reminder: this is
what happens when you don't control erosion properly."

Meteor Crater is easy to get to, just a few minutes off
Interstate 40 east of Flagstaff.  But it is all by itself out in
the middle of nowhere and it is **NOT** grandiose; the most
impressive thing about it is knowing that it was all made in just
a few seconds by something that dropped in uninvited.

But:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dilatush/pix/meteorcrater.jpg

it definitely is one humungulous hole in the ground, I'll give it
that...

Be aware that distances between points of interest in the desert
Southwest of the US are absolutely IMMENSE, and something like
this:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dilatush/pix/nextgas.jpg

or this:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dilatush/pix/lakevalley.jpg

is not at all uncommon.  Be prepared for hours and hours of
driving, through a whole lot of empty space, in between visits to
sights of interest.

San Francisco traffic is mind-bending.  You will NOT be the same
person after you encounter it.  :)

Enjoy.

Dave D.

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2003\05\09@183850 by Tom Messenger

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At 10:07 PM 5/9/03 +0000, you wrote:
>Russell wrote...
>
>San Francisco, LA via Pacific Coast

Honk the horn and wave as you go by! I'm a stones throw (literally) from
the road you will travel. We'll set the alarms to kiwi mode to spot you.

BTW, with some creative driving, you can easily pass through some beautiful
redwood groves between SF and LA if you try and it won't lengthen your
trip.  Pack a lunch for the Pacific coast south of Monterey - known as the
Big Sur.  Or stop at Essalen and hit the tubs out on the rocks overlooking
the ocean.

Enjoy!

Tom M.

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2003\05\09@184107 by Dave VanHorn

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>
>San Francisco traffic is mind-bending.  You will NOT be the same
>person after you encounter it.  :)

Sometimes you can't see the road over your hood, and other times you're
SURE you're going to roll end over end :)


Beef Jerky from the Jones and Jackson market!
Gearardelli's

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2003\05\09@185943 by Charles Craft

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Stick me in the "there's one in every crowd" category. :-)

1. Netherlands - I worked in Amsterdam years ago and my wife missed it on a whirlwind Europe trip before we met so we decided to honeymoon there in 2001. Had a blast - both in the city and out in the countryside. Did the touristy museum stuff and off-beat things like finding 200 volt light bulbs to use in my pumphouse back here in the U.S.

2. Grand Canyon - average time spent at the rim is something like 22 minutes? It's pretty much a waste to go to the rim and peer down - there's no reference/scale so it looks like a big flat painting. Only way to appreciate the size is to hike into it. Did a 3 day hike down to Supai and you get a real sense of scale when you compare how far you walked to the little distance it covers on a map of Grand Canyon.

Just my $.02 (which is worth less and less Euros every day!)
chuckc



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2003\05\09@195630 by Igor Pokorny

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Guys, there is a lot of nice places,
I live in the central Europe, in the Czech republic and hope we will be a
member of EU in short. My country is almost such small as Netherlands but
you can find here almost everything you were dream about... Medieval cities
as well as mountains or deserts....
Being in the States and Canada many times I consider it's many places worth
to live...  I personally would prefer Arizona...  No wonder, I am close to
be retired :-)

Regards

Igor

{Original Message removed}

2003\05\09@213337 by Lee Jones

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Hi Russell, et al...

> Starting on June 27th my wife and I plus a friend plan a whistle-stop
> world tour [...]

I've very envious.

> We are interested in receiving suggestions from people whose territory
> we are about to travel through about what they consider worth seeing

I live in Claremont, about 40 miles due east of downtown Los Angeles.
My recommendations may include places already on your list.

> USA: June 27th Los Angeles, San Diego, brief foray into Mexico, then
> via Lake Havasa or to Phoenix via Yuma.  Flagstaff, Meteor Crater,
> Grand Canyon, Las Vegas via Hoover Dam (July the 4th in Vegas!),
> Death Valley, to Sierra Nevadas/Lone Pine/Independence, Yosemite NP,
> San Francisco, LA via Pacific Coast   12 July Depart

San Diego area - downtown

   San Diego Zoo (full day)

   Balboa Park (museums, botanical garden) -- you just missed a
   traveling exhibit of very early photography, runs to June 14

   San Diego Aerospace Museum, south end Balboa Park

   San Diego automotive museum, next to aerospace museum

   Cabrillo bridge -- take 163 freeway(*) south from Interstate 8
   freeway, you go under bridge, exit 163 freeway to Balboa Park
   and Zoo; later, drive west on Balboa Park's main road and you
   go over top of bridge; park in city park on west end and walk
   over bridge (1/2 hour)

   Balboa Park was built for San Diego Exposition of 1915(?);
   Cabrillo Bridge was built then to cross deep narrow canyon from
   city (much smaller then) to exposition grounds.  Local doctor(?)
   was distressed at plan to kill exotic animals after the exposition
   closed and formed San Deigo Zoo using them as basis

   Sea World San Deigo; commercial fish & marine mammal park; I'm
   not much interested but my wife & son like them

   Belmont Park, at Mission Beach (on Mission Bay, near Sea World),
   with very old wooden "Giant Dipper" roller coaster; family nights
   special prices from 4PM to closing from June 6th to August 26th;
   see http://www.giantdipper.com

   Coronado bridge to north island, turn around, drive back; very
   fancy/pricy 1900's hotel on north island (remainder is Navy base)


San Diego area -- north (La Jolla, Escondido & Julian)

   Stephen Birch Aquarium & Museum in La Jolla; adjacent cliffs
   overlook Pacific Ocean; look for hang gliders flying over them

   San Diego Wild Animal Park -- affiliated with zoo; larger area
   with much more natural, open areas for animals; is east of the
   Interstate 15 freeway (follow signs) around 78 highway

   from Wild Animal Park, you can follow 78 through Julian (mildly
   interesting antique tourist town) over north-south mountain range

   continue into Anza-Borrego Desert State Park; lots of neat
   desert views, rough off-road vehicle trails, and hiking trails;
   they have camp grounds.  I can give you details, GPS latitude
   & longitude coordinates, etc on request; hot in June

   You can leave area east on S2 or S3 highway to Salton Sea; it
   was formed by Colorado River irrigation then salinity raised
   as water evaporated (if I recall correctly)


Palm Springs area

   from Salton Sea, you can head north through Palm Springs and
   join Interstate 10 freeway to Phoenix or head south to 8(?)
   freeway to Yuma


Banning Pass area

   on interstate 10 freeway from Banning Pass (east end of LA
   basin) to Blythe (at Arizona border), there are wind power
   farms.  Banning Pass to north of Palm Springs is _major_
   farm -- hundreds of wind power generators on towers

   dinosaurs in Cabazon; near Banning Pass on Interstate 10;
   2 large 15 meter high concrete dinosaurs built in 1950-70
   by slightly eccentric man; gift shop inside one of them.
   Fast food places adjacent allow combined dinosaur visit
   and food/rest stop


Pheonix area -- north

   Frank Lloyd Wright's Taliesin West (in Scottsdale)

   Palo Solari's Cosanti (in Scottsdale)

   62 foot tall sun dial (third largest in the world); in
   Care Free; about a half hour north of Phoenix

   Palo Solari's Arcosanti, an urban laboratory (east side of
   Interstate 17 freeway at Cordes Junction; about 1-1/2 hours
   north of Phoenix on the way to Sedona & Flagstaff or 1 hour
   north of Care Free); see http://www.arcosanti.org; they have
   low priced lodgings

   Montezuma's Castle National Monument, Campe Verde AZ;  600
   year old native american cliff dwelling; 90 miles north of
   Phoenix (20 minutes north of Cordes Junction) or 50 miles
   freeway; about 20 minutes north of Cordes Junction


Sedona area

   wonderfull huge red rock formations

   only McDonalds with green arches

   Red Rock State Park


Winslow area (Meteor crater)

   Winslow is an old train resupply town; as railroad no longer
   needs to stop there, it has contracted; neat 1950's & 1960's
   buildings and "feel" -- I like it; nice overnight base for

   Barringer Meteor Crater, south of Interstate 40 freeway (in
   the middle of nowhere), 25 miles or half hour west of Winslow;
   http://www.barringercrater.com

   Petrified Forest National Park; 1-1/2 hours east of Winslow on
   Interstate 40 freeway; million year old fossilized trees; see
   http://www.petrified.forest.national-park.com/

   Painted Desert wilderness area; part of Petrified Forest, on
   the north side of the freeway


San Jose area -- downtown

   Tech Museum

   Winchester Mystery House

   Moffet Field & NASA Ames Research Center (visitor center)


San Francisco area -- downtown

   Golden Gate Bridge; walk across & back

   Fort Point National Historic Site, underneath south end of the
   Golden Gate Bridge; see http://www.nps.gov/fopo/

   Alcatraz Island; tours; used to have tours of the old fort
   underneath the 1930's prison, not sure if they still do it

   Oakland Bay Bridge & Treasure Island

   Exploratorium

   Coit Tower

   Cable Cars!  ride them & visit Cable Car museum


San Francisco area -- north

   Muir Woods National Monument (http://www.nps.gov/muwo/ primordial
   redwoods) and Mount Tamalpais State Park; short drive north
   end of Golden Gate bridge; walking tour; when we picniced,
   parking lot was in direct sunlight, picnic tables (50-100
   meters away!) was in full fog with drizzle (ground hugging
   clouds) -- mega neat effect


Boy, that took a lot longer than I thought it would to write.

Hope you have fun.  If you're going to be near intersection of
the 10 & 15 freeways, send me email if you'd like to get together
for lunch or something.

                                               Lee Jones

* = freeway is limited access, non-toll highway with normal speed
   limit of 65 MPH (100 KPH); traffic permitting, most vehicles
   go 70-75 MPH between cities

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2003\05\10@034918 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> I live in the central Europe, in the Czech republic and hope

For the one city in Europe that no one should miss I'd vote for Praha
(or however it is spelled). And on a short vistit skip the gouvernment
buildings complex and go for the smaller and quieter complex on the
other side of the river (Viseherat?).

Wouter

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2003\05\10@113114 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
I hadn't intended this thread to take off like this on the list itself.

I greatly appreciate the many comments and advice received both on list and
via the website. (http://tinyurl.com/b6p7)
For any further comments on list could we please change the tag to [OT]: so
we don't flood the [PIC]: tag.

(I'd change it myself in this message but then you wouldn't see this message
:-) )

 regards and many thanks,

         Russell McMahon

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2003\05\10@182112 by Igor Pokorny

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face
Wouter, how do you know about Vysehrad. It's really nice quiet place. I love
this place irrespective of it's mostly cementary for people of our culture.
I wouldn't believe there can be such notice in maillist about PIC
controllers :-).

Thanks

Igor

---Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list [.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On
Behalf Of Wouter van Ooijen
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 9:48 AM
To: EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC]: Coming to a City, State or Country near you soon


> I live in the central Europe, in the Czech republic and hope

For the one city in Europe that no one should miss I'd vote for Praha
(or however it is spelled). And on a short vistit skip the gouvernment
buildings complex and go for the smaller and quieter complex on the
other side of the river (Viseherat?).

Wouter

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2003\05\14@184521 by Lawrence Lile

flavicon
face
>2. Grand Canyon - average time spent at the rim is something like 22
minutes? It's pretty much a waste to go to the rim and peer down - there's
no reference/scale so it looks like a big flat painting. Only way to
appreciate the size is to hike into it. Did a 3 day hike down to Supai and
you get a real sense of scale when you compare how far you walked to the
little distance it covers on a map of Grand Canyon.

An impressive way to get the feel of the grand canyon is to look over the
rim, pick out a point on a trail as far down as you can see, hike to it
for one hour, look waaaay back up there to the itty bitty people gawking
over the rim and and THEN look over the next rim down and realize how
little of it you have actually traversed.  Also you will then realize how
little of your water bottle is left - bring twice as much as you think.
Budget two hours to hike out.

Skip a few other things and stey here at least a half a day.  Also don't
skip nearby Sedona


-- Lawrence Lile
Senior Project Engineer
Toastmaster, Inc.
Division of Salton, Inc.
573-446-5661 voice
573-446-5676 fax




Charles Craft <KILLspamchuckseaKILLspamspamMINDSPRING.COM>
Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list <RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
05/09/2003 07:12 PM
Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list


       To:     spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
       cc:
       Subject:        Re: [PIC]: Coming to a City, State or Country near you soon


Stick me in the "there's one in every crowd" category. :-)

1. Netherlands - I worked in Amsterdam years ago and my wife missed it on
a whirlwind Europe trip before we met so we decided to honeymoon there in
2001. Had a blast - both in the city and out in the countryside. Did the
touristy museum stuff and off-beat things like finding 200 volt light
bulbs to use in my pumphouse back here in the U.S.

2. Grand Canyon - average time spent at the rim is something like 22
minutes? It's pretty much a waste to go to the rim and peer down - there's
no reference/scale so it looks like a big flat painting. Only way to
appreciate the size is to hike into it. Did a 3 day hike down to Supai and
you get a real sense of scale when you compare how far you walked to the
little distance it covers on a map of Grand Canyon.

Just my $.02 (which is worth less and less Euros every day!)
chuckc



--{Original Message removed}


'[PIC]: Coming to a City, State or Country near you'
2003\06\15@050109 by Russell McMahon
face
flavicon
face
Lee

12 days until we leave.
Frantic here.

Just reading through your information again.
Heaps of excellent stuff there!.
Not a chance that we would fit most of it in but we will pick some of your
highlights to add to the tour. Many thanks for the time spent.
So much to see.
My wife Val also says that your material was especially useful.

thanks again


       Russell McMahon

From: "Lee Jones" <TakeThisOuTleeEraseMEspamspam_OUTFRUMBLE.CLAREMONT.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 12:31 PM

> I live in Claremont, about 40 miles due east of downtown Los Angeles.
> My recommendations may include places already on your list.
>
......... heaps .... !

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