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PICList Thread
'[OT] circuit diagrams'
1997\12\22@185456 by Andrew Mayo

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Fascinating to see these ASCII circuit diagrams. I don't know if there
are any standard symbols for ASCII circuits (probably there are, I
suppose - anyone know where to find them?); if not, may I suggest these
as a starter?. Vertical components are a real problem and I don't know
how to handle them - any ingenious ideas? (I tried to keep to the spirit
of the international electronic symbols)

Capacitor

-[ ]-

or

-||-

or

-|[-

Resistor

-/\/\/\-

or (not quite as good, but quicker to type)

-WW-

Inductor

-ununun-

or

-[XX]-

Diode (anode to left)

->]-

Diode (anode to right)

-[<-


NPN transistor, emitter upwards

-K^

NPN transistor, emitter downwards

-Kv

PNP transistor, emitter downwards

-K-

(I have no idea how to draw a PNP transistor with the emitter upwards)


Lightbulb

-@-

Battery

+| [-

Joined crossed wires

|
o------
|

Isolated crossed wires

|
)-------
|

1997\12\23@001349 by Chris Eddy

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Andrew; It is always awkward to create those darned ascii schematics.  It
strikes me that we can HMTL the schematic into the Email.  I get some update
Email thing every month from Netscape, and they somehow manage to embed
complete web style content into their Email message.  One would have to
further assume that most of the participants in our Piclist are running
their Email software under windows with a fairly recent version of Netscape
or from that other company can display the content.  Ahh, I just can't
remember the name of that other company that makes the other popular browser
right now.  Nevertheless, if a consensus were reached, one could endevour to
do HMTL schematics.  Some know how to use HMTL editors quite well, others
such as myself do not object to learning a new skill every now and then.

Chris Eddy
Pioneer Microsystems, Inc.

Andrew Mayo wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1997\12\23@002633 by tjaart

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{Quote hidden}

How about a short-circuit ? <VBG>
                      _______
                     (     __)
                    _(    _)
                   (    _)
                   (_   )
                     (  )
                      ( )
----------------------|()
----------------------*------------------- +
                     |------------------- -

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
spam_OUTtjaartTakeThisOuTspamwasp.co.za
_____________________________________________________________
| WASP International http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html |
|       R&D Engineer : GSM peripheral services development    |
|   Vehicle tracking | Telemetry systems | GSM data transfer  |
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|_____________________________________________________________|

1997\12\23@002811 by FScalini

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Could somebody recommend free software for drawing circuit schematics (with
HTML capabilities would be ideal) and where on the net it can be found.
Thanks.

In a message dated 97-12-23 00:17:12 EST, you write:

> Andrew; It is always awkward to create those darned ascii schematics.  It
>  strikes me that we can HMTL the schematic into the Email.  I get some
update
>  Email thing every month from Netscape, and they somehow manage to embed
>  complete web style content into their Email message.  One would have to
>  further assume that most of the participants in our Piclist are running
>  their Email software under windows with a fairly recent version of Netscape
>  or from that other company can display the content.  Ahh, I just can't
>  remember the name of that other company that makes the other popular
browser
>  right now.  Nevertheless, if a consensus were reached, one could endevour
to
>  do HMTL schematics.  Some know how to use HMTL editors quite well, others
>  such as myself do not object to learning a new skill every now and then.
>
>  Chris Eddy
>  Pioneer Microsystems, Inc.
>

1997\12\23@010426 by BobBuege

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In a message dated 97-12-23 00:29:07 EST, you write:

> Could somebody recommend free software for drawing circuit schematics (with
>  HTML capabilities would be ideal) and where on the net it can be found.
>  Thanks.

I've always had difficulty reading ascii schematics because my email gets
printed in a font that has variable widths for different characters. This
causes the characters to misalign and I don't have the patience to try
deciphering the resultant picture.

When I want to send a schematic, I use paintbrush to draw the schematic in BMP
format and just attach the file to an email. Paintbrush came free with Windows
for Workgroups 3.11. I assume something similar comes with Windows 3.1 or
Windows 95. It sure makes the schematic easier to read.

Bob

1997\12\23@031129 by Pasi T Mustalahti

picon face
On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, BobBuege wrote:

> In a message dated 97-12-23 00:29:07 EST, you write:
>
> > Could somebody recommend free software for drawing circuit schematics (with
> >  HTML capabilities would be ideal) and where on the net it can be found.
> >  Thanks.
>
> When I want to send a schematic, I use paintbrush to draw the schematic in BMP
> format and just attach the file to an email. Paintbrush came free with Windows
> for Workgroups 3.11. I assume something similar comes with Windows 3.1 or
> Windows 95. It sure makes the schematic easier to read.
PTM: PainBrush might be nice, if we only have symbols in it. It is hard
work to make even R and C, not to mention L.
If someone could make a base picture, that has these components ready made
so that those could only be cut and copied.
Another thing is that not every reader has a PMB compatible monitor.

I'll prefer these symbols we used some years ago:
-Rx-    Resistance      |
                       R
                       |
-Cx-    Capasitance
-+Cx-
-C+x-                   |+
                       Cx
                       |

-Lx-    Impedance
-<x-
->x-    Diode           |       |
                       Vx      ^x
                       |       |

|
-x-     connected
|

|
---     not connected
|

Transistors were a trouble, it was like this or vice versa:
|/
-|\     PNP

-|/
|\     NPN

We didn't use symbols for logical ports or op.amps
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
PTM, .....pasi.mustalahtiKILLspamspam@spam@utu.fi, ptmustaspamKILLspamutu.fi, http://www.utu.fi/~ptmusta
Lab.ins. (mikrotuki) ATK-keskus/Mat.Luon.Tdk                    OH1HEK
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Mail: Turun Yliopisto / Fysla, Vesilinnantie 5, 20014
Pt 02-3336669, FAX 02-3335632 (Pk 02-2387010, NMT 049-555577)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

1997\12\23@032341 by Jacques Vrey

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Hi to all

On the topic of circuit diagrams - Labcenter have a nice (I think so)
little shareware/nagware program called Isis Lite that can export
diagrams to .bmp and works quite well - go have a look.

They also have a pcb designer called Ares Lite, also
shareware/nagware.

http://www.labcenter.co.uk/prolite

Regards



Jacques Vrey
Iscor Steel Profile Products
Internal Post Point 74
PO Box 2
Newcastle
2940
South Africa
Tel: +27 (0)3431 48759
Fax: +27 (0)3431 48001
.....jvreyKILLspamspam.....it.new.iscorltd.co.za
The views expressed above are not necessarily
those of Iscor Limited.

I hear and I forget, I see and I remember,
I do and I understand. (Chinese Proverb)

1997\12\23@090642 by Christopher E. Brown

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On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Chris Eddy wrote:

> Andrew; It is always awkward to create those darned ascii schematics.  It
> strikes me that we can HMTL the schematic into the Email.  I get some update
> Email thing every month from Netscape, and they somehow manage to embed
> complete web style content into their Email message.  One would have to
> further assume that most of the participants in our Piclist are running
> their Email software under windows with a fairly recent version of Netscape
> or from that other company can display the content.  Ahh, I just can't
> remember the name of that other company that makes the other popular browser
> right now.  Nevertheless, if a consensus were reached, one could endevour to
> do HMTL schematics.  Some know how to use HMTL editors quite well, others
> such as myself do not object to learning a new skill every now and then.

       Please NO!  html, or bmp, or jpeg in a mime enclosure shure, but
don't make the assumption that everyone uses a browser for a mail reader.
HTML within a message is an evil, evil thing for those that use an actual
mail reader, rather than a browser.  Turns a message from one page of nice
text to 5 pages of unreadable trash.

       I would suggest (though I like ascii schematics just fine) either
attaching a bmp, jpg, html, etc to a message, or putting the files up on a
w3 server and just posting the address.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher E. Brown (CB421)    <EraseMEcbrownspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTalaska.net>        +(907) 357-5680

We are Pentium of Borg.  Division is futile.  You will be approximated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

1997\12\23@104610 by Reginald Neale

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For the tiny fraction of PICers (according to Microchip) that use Macs,
Tropic Systems makes a package called Electronic Symbol Library that works
with Canvas or MacDraw. It has the complete set of IEEE 315 and 315A
symbols. Each symbol is a separately editable object. Makes very nice
looking schematics. I think it cost me about $75 five years ago.

Their address is:

Tropic Systems
12319 SW 132 Ct., 2nd Fl.
Miami FL 33186
305-251-7644 voice
305-251-9931 fax

I don't own stock; just a satisfied customer.

Reg Neale

1997\12\23@130344 by Leon Heller

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In message <Pine.SV4.3.96.971223094441.1585I-100000spamspam_OUTantares.utu.fi>,> Pasi T Mustalahti <@spam@ptmustaKILLspamspamUTU.FI> writes

{Quote hidden}

On the few occasions I've used ASCII art, I've used something like
Pasi's symbols. How about:

         /
       -P
         \.

for transistors?

Someone (I forget who) was working on an editor that creates this type
of diagram.

Leon
--
Leon Heller: KILLspamleonKILLspamspamlfheller.demon.co.uk http://www.lfheller.demon.co.uk
Amateur Radio Callsign G1HSM    Tel: +44 (0) 118 947 1424
See http://www.lfheller.demon.co.uk/dds.htm for details of my AD9850
DDS system - schematic and software.

1997\12\23@133859 by wwl

picon face
>
>        I would suggest (though I like ascii schematics just fine) either
>attaching a bmp,
NO!!! use GIF, preferebly  - very efficient compression for graphics,
if you must use BMP, please ZIP it first!
..jpg
Great for photos but a poor choice for diagrams

    ____                                                           ____
  _/ L_/  Mike Harrison / White Wing Logic / RemoveMEwwlTakeThisOuTspamnetcomuk.co.uk  _/ L_/
_/ W_/  Hardware & Software design / PCB Design / Consultancy  _/ W_/
/_W_/  Industrial / Computer Peripherals / Hazardous Area      /_W_/

1997\12\23@220100 by Lee Jones

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Chris wrote:

> It is always awkward to create those darned ascii schematics.

> It strikes me that we can HMTL the schematic into the Email.

> One would have to further assume that most of the participants
> in our Piclist are running their Email software under windows

<asbestos suit on>
Not every computer in the world is a PC running Windows.

I, for one, read my email as text from several locations
via telnet to my office Unix system.  I use PCs when I
have to -- to run PIC programmers.  I use Macs when I can.
ASCII works in all those places.
<asbestos suit off>


Bob wrote:

> I've always had difficulty reading ascii schematics because my
> email gets printed in a font that has variable widths

> I don't have the patience to try deciphering the resultant picture.

So maybe you could select a monospaced font?

                                               Lee Jones

1997\12\25@011912 by William Luther Davis

picon face
-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher E. Brown <spamBeGonecbrownspamBeGonespamALASKA.NET>
To: TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU <RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, December 23, 1997 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] circuit diagrams


>On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Chris Eddy wrote:
>
>> Andrew; It is always awkward to create those darned ascii schematics.  It
>> strikes me that we can HMTL the schematic into the Email.  I get some
update
>> Email thing every month from Netscape, and they somehow manage to embed
>> complete web style content into their Email message.  One would have to
>> further assume that most of the participants in our Piclist are running
>> their Email software under windows with a fairly recent version of
Netscape
>> or from that other company can display the content.  Ahh, I just can't
>> remember the name of that other company that makes the other popular
browser
>> right now.  Nevertheless, if a consensus were reached, one could endevour
to
{Quote hidden}

mail in a browser.  HTML attachments, even .gif, and .jpeg are in my opinion
unsuitable for piclist.  I've learned the hard way about reading the piclist
on my Linux box...simply because of the 5-10 pages of garbage even the
smallest html file attachment creates.  The best solution would be either to
ftp circuit schematics from a designated place or to post a URL.  That way
at least the person reading the piclist would have the choice to read
his/her mail in the way that best suits him...without having to pray that
someone hasn't attached .gifs, .bmps ,etc to what they thought was mail.


Thanks and have a Safe and Merry Christmas,
William Davis <EraseMEdaviswspamiwaynet.net>

1997\12\26@022337 by XYGAX

picon face
In a message dated 23/12/97  18:05:00, you write:

<<
Someone (I forget who) was working on an editor that creates this type
of diagram.
 >>
I think that a conversion util to turn a proper dwg into ascii may be better
EG Orcad / Pads / Viewtrax ect .......

Just my 0.02 worth Steve

1997\12\29@154118 by Martin R. Green

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On Tue, 23 Dec 1997 00:10:48 -0500, Chris Eddy <RemoveMEceddyEraseMEspamEraseMENB.NET> wrote:

>Andrew; It is always awkward to create those darned ascii schematics.  It
>strikes me that we can HMTL the schematic into the Email.  I get some update
>Email thing every month from Netscape, and they somehow manage to embed
>complete web style content into their Email message.  One would have to
>further assume that most of the participants in our Piclist are running
>their Email software under windows with a fairly recent version of Netscape
>or from that other company can display the content...
 <SNIP>

Bad, bad, BAD assumption.  I would be willing to bet that the majority
of PICLIST members do NOT use a browser for email.  Despite the cool
embedded HTML, there are just too many other things you give up, plus
not all PICLIST members are even running on a PC.  Although I use
Netscape daily for browsing, I always use Agent from Forte Inc. for
all mail and newsgroup access.

CIAO - Martin.

Martin R. Green
RemoveMEelimarspam_OUTspamKILLspamNOSPAMbigfoot.com

To reply, remove the NOSPAM from the return address.
Stamp out SPAM everywhere!!!

1997\12\29@211518 by Marc Heuler

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Hi Martin (Martin R. Green), in <RemoveME34a90567.22125349TakeThisOuTspamspammail.ionsys.com> on Dec 29 you wrote:

> Bad, bad, BAD assumption.  I would be willing to bet that the majority
> of PICLIST members do NOT use a browser for email.

I use a 1992 port of ELM on a niche computer, that basically displays
ASCII.  For MIME encapsulated messages it has to call external viewers.
Usually I abort viewing those messages as the external batches are lengthy,
and most of the time those messages carry not much information.

1997\12\30@022302 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   > Bad, bad, BAD assumption.  I would be willing to bet that the majority
   > of PICLIST members do NOT use a browser for email.

   I use a 1992 port of ELM on a niche computer, that basically displays
   ASCII.  For MIME encapsulated messages it has to call external viewers.

I use a 1990 version of MM for unix (MM is nominally a tops20 mailsystem
whose heydey predates that by another five years or so.)  For MIME
encapsulated messages I manually filter things (or most often forward them
to a browser or simply delete them.)

However, MM can do "read to piclist since 1-dec-97 text 12c508" in as much
time as it takes to type that (gee, remember when people were expected to
talk to computers in something resembling english, instead of like
some... masseusse or something!)

BillW

1997\12\30@220029 by Martin McCormick

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       I use mmdf as the mail agent and mh as the user agent on a Sun
Sparc UNIX system.  It reads some mime messages well, but chokes on anything
that can't be Dis plaid on an ASCII terminal.  What is bad is that some
mailers turn perfectly good text messages in to works of "art" that only
display on other systems using the same software as the sender is using.
All other systems just choke and give an error message.  ASCII works well
and the idea of posting an URL for those who want the schematic is a good one.

Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK 36.7N97.4W
OSU Center for Computing and Information Services Data Communications Group


'[OT] circuit diagrams'
1998\01\12@200422 by Bruce Cannon
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>>I would have to agree with Chris Brown on this.  Not everyone reads their
>mail in a browser.  HTML attachments, even .gif, and .jpeg are in my opinion
>unsuitable for piclist.  I've learned the hard way about reading the piclist
>on my Linux box...simply because of the 5-10 pages of garbage even the
>smallest html file attachment creates.  The best solution would be either to
>ftp circuit schematics from a designated place or to post a URL.  That way
>at least the person reading the piclist would have the choice to read
>his/her mail in the way that best suits him...without having to pray that
>someone hasn't attached .gifs, .bmps ,etc to what they thought was mail.

How about an FTP site associated with the list, so that everyone can post
their attachments there and avoid the endless complaints about mail
polluted by attachments?  Would MIT do that?  It's a logical extension of
this list.

And there I would suggest .pdf files.

Bruce

1998\01\12@224833 by paulh

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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Bruce Cannon wrote:

> >       ...  The best solution would be either to
> >ftp circuit schematics from a designated place or to post a URL. ...

> How about an FTP site associated with the list, so that everyone can post
> their attachments there and avoid the endless complaints about mail
> polluted by attachments?  Would MIT do that?  It's a logical extension of
> this list.

We don't need MIT for that.  Many people on the list have volunteered over
the years to put circuit diagrams up on their websites.  I am certainly
willing to provide space on my servers.  Just ask the list if you have a
diagram (PIC related) that needs a home.  You'll probably get 20 offers.

> And there I would suggest .pdf files.

Make an image with the tools you have available.  I can easily translate
about 30 different formats into web friendly GIFs.  If it is already in a
web friendly format, such as a pdf file, I'll post it as is.

--
EraseMEpaulhspamspamspamBeGonehamjudo.com  http://www.hamjudo.com
The April 97 WebSight magazine describes me as "(presumably) normal".

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