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PICList Thread
'[OT] You got to read this in Microchip Forum'
2006\02\21@063135 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=141598

This guy (markphaser) is one of the most "interesting" people I have even
seen in Microchip forum.

I do not know what will happen if he posts the questions to PIClist.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2006\02\21@064547 by Jamie C. Pole

flavicon
face

He's doing the same thing on the Basic Stamp forums at Parallax.

It's getting pretty old, actually...

I don't think there's any need to worry about him showing up here -  
subscribing to this mailing list is very likely FAR beyond his  
technical ability.  Then again, maybe he can use a microcontroller to  
do it for him...  :-)

Jamie


On Feb 21, 2006, at 6:31 AM, Xiaofan Chen wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\02\21@070708 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
Now you make me have doubts about your definition of 'interesting'!!! Got
any other wild questions off of this guy? :-D

Sean.

2006\02\21@071506 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
Muhahahahah!  I just thought of something. Some one should make him buy the
most difficult and expensive book on digital signal processing, and tell him
to read it from cover to cover. Don't forget to tell him that all the
answers he will ever need are in there! Is that evil, or what? Don't forget
to mention that the book has code examples on what he is looking for, but
only if he buys a copy on amazon or some other online bookstore. Maybe
someone else should recommend a *good* book on quantum mechanics to go with
it, so all becomes even more clear for him!

Good idea, or is it a little too cruel?

Sean.

2006\02\21@072534 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
Excuse this 3'rd post in a row, but this guy is starting to remind me about
a guy I had in my class at one point that always hooked a transistor up in
the safest possible manor by making sure (yeah, he was plain stupid) that
all three leads where on the same conducting path. It would usually take him
a complete lesson (40 minutes) to breadboard 30 components, and without help
nothing ever worked. I always used to feel sorry for the guy and tried to
explain things to him, but I don't think it ever sank in. He didn't make the
end of the year and went on to do something else. I sometimes wonder how he
even got in to the school in the first place.

Sean

2006\02\21@072611 by Jamie C. Pole

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face

Nah, that's not too cruel...

Just for laughs, I'd really like to know what he's trying to build.

Jamie


On Feb 21, 2006, at 7:15 AM, Sean Schouten wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\02\21@072812 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
> http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=141598
>
> This guy (markphaser) is one of the most "interesting" people I  
> have even
> seen in Microchip forum.
>
> I do not know what will happen if he posts the questions to PIClist.

I think I like Olins answer to him best.

Perhaps he can be persuaded to unsubscribble ...

2006\02\21@075430 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Xiofan,

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:31:34 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=141598
>
> This guy (markphaser) is one of the most "interesting" people I have even
> seen in Microchip forum.

Ugh!!!  Now I know why I stay in this place.  I do like Olin's reply though :-)

There is always a very small minority of people who will ask questions like: "I could never understand
physics, but I want to build a nuclear reactor to save money on electricity.  Where can I get some Uranium?"

> I do not know what will happen if he posts the questions to PIClist.

Hopefully he isn't clever enough to find this place, so we'll never know!

Cheers,



Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\02\21@075742 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Jamie,

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 07:26:08 -0500, Jamie C. Pole wrote:

> Just for laughs, I'd really like to know what he's
trying to build.

I'd guess a synthesiser, since he seems to be trying to
vary resistances, I think he has a circuit using
key-switches which connect resistors into circuit, and
he's trying to automate it.  I could be completely
wrong, of course...

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\02\21@080618 by olin piclist

face picon face
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> This guy (markphaser) is one of the most "interesting" people I have
> even seen in Microchip forum.

If you're going to point people to this for their entertainment, you should
point them to the original thread
(http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=141130&mpage=1).  This is where he
first appeared and people were still trying to help him.  The thread you
referred to can only be understood in the context of the previous history.

> I do not know what will happen if he posts the questions to PIClist.

I'll tell him he's an idiot and James will boot me off the list.  Good thing
then he hasn't found the PIClist yet ;-)


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\02\21@081559 by Philip Pemberton

face picon face
In message <spam_OUT200602211254.k1LCsTH2022739TakeThisOuTspamfort-point-station.mit.edu>>          "Howard Winter" <.....HDRWKILLspamspam@spam@H2Org.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Ugh!!!  Now I know why I stay in this place.  I do like Olin's reply though :-)

Yes, it seems the subscription procedure for the PICLIST acts as a basic IQ
test of sorts :P

Sure as hell doesn't keep "mad people" away though. Me for example - "Mr. I'm
Going To Build An MP3 Player Because It Looks Like Fun". I've got the CPU,
the CODEC is in the post, now I just need to find that pesky 11.2896MHz
(or 16.9344MHz) crystal for the CODEC's clock circuit, and some power supply
components.

Separate 3.3V AVDD/DVDD, plus 5V for the hard drive. Maybe with a 10F202 to
sequence them on startup, and an 18F4550 for the USB->ATA interface.

> > I do not know what will happen if he posts the questions to PIClist.
>
> Hopefully he isn't clever enough to find this place, so we'll never know!

Well, I'll keep a spot in my killfile for him :)

--
Phil.                         | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G ViewFinder
philpemspamKILLspamdsl.pipex.com         | Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 512M+100G
http://www.philpem.me.uk/     | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 256M+40G
... Damn it Jim, I'm a doctor not a doctor! Hey, wait a minute

2006\02\21@082104 by Philip Pemberton

face picon face
In message <015e01c636e7$cbebc790$.....780010acKILLspamspam.....radianse.com>
         EraseMEolin_piclistspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTembedinc.com (Olin Lathrop) wrote:


> > I do not know what will happen if he posts the questions to PIClist.
>
> I'll tell him he's an idiot and James will boot me off the list.  Good thing
> then he hasn't found the PIClist yet ;-)

IIRC James said "comment on the questions not the poster" or words to that
effect. So this:
 Your questions are senseless, pointless and downright stupid.
would be acceptable, but this:
 You are a complete idiot.
would not.

So be really nasty when commenting on the questions, just don't insult the
guy on a personal level. Problem solved :)

--
Phil.                         | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G ViewFinder
philpemspamspam_OUTdsl.pipex.com         | Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 512M+100G
http://www.philpem.me.uk/     | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 256M+40G
... If at first you don't succeed, you're doing about average.

2006\02\21@082306 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Olin,

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 08:07:38 -0500, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> > This guy (markphaser) is one of the most "interesting" people I have
> > even seen in Microchip forum.
>
> If you're going to point people to this for their entertainment, you should
> point them to the original thread
> (http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=141130&mpage=1).  This is where he
> first appeared and people were still trying to help him.  The thread you
> referred to can only be understood in the context of the previous history.

Oh Good Grief!  By the time I'd read about the fifth message I was losing the will to live...

> > I do not know what will happen if he posts the questions to PIClist.
>
> I'll tell him he's an idiot and James will boot me off the list.  Good thing
> then he hasn't found the PIClist yet ;-)

Well if he does, *I'll* tell him he's an idiot.  I think I may get away with a warning... :-)

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\02\21@083009 by olin piclist

face picon face
Sean Schouten wrote:
> Muhahahahah!  I just thought of something. Some one should make him buy
> the most difficult and expensive book on digital signal processing, and
> tell him to read it from cover to cover. Don't forget to tell him that
> all the answers he will ever need are in there! Is that evil, or what?
> Don't forget to mention that the book has code examples on what he is
> looking for, but only if he buys a copy on amazon or some other online
> bookstore. Maybe someone else should recommend a *good* book on quantum
> mechanics to go with it, so all becomes even more clear for him!

Someone has already done something close.  Take a look at post #51 at
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=141130&mpage=3 near the bottom of the
page.  I'm wondering what the professor will think when he gets that babble
back as answers to the homework assignment!


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\02\21@084915 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
>> I do not know what will happen if he posts the questions to PIClist.
>
> I'll tell him he's an idiot

Why? On the referred thread you gave him a perfect answer: humorous,
correct, and non-offensive. The message is of course the same as "you
are an idiot", but the packaging can make a big difference :)

> and James will boot me off the list. Good thing then he hasn't found
the PIClist yet ;-)

If you can keep your replies in the style I referred to I would love to
see him on the piclist (and to read your replies!).

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\02\21@090435 by olin piclist

face picon face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> Why? On the referred thread you gave him a perfect answer: humorous,
> correct, and non-offensive. The message is of course the same as "you
> are an idiot", but the packaging can make a big difference :)

I'm not sure James would appreciate the distinction.

> If you can keep your replies in the style I referred to I would love to
> see him on the piclist (and to read your replies!).

There are a couple more threads this guy started.  He's now trying to become
a A/D, D/A, and DSP expert.  You'll only see one of my replies in there
since I gave up on him already by that point, but it's entertaining to watch
the replies of others as it slowly dawns on them they're trying to explain
microcontrollers to someone with the intelligence of a trilobite.

forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=141849&mpage=1
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=142830


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\02\21@091847 by John Nall

picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote:

> > There are a couple more threads this guy started.  He's now trying to become
> a A/D, D/A, and DSP expert.  You'll only see one of my replies in there
> since I gave up on him already by that point, but it's entertaining to watch
> the replies of others as it slowly dawns on them they're trying to explain
> microcontrollers to someone with the intelligence of a trilobite.
>  
.
Since I never saw the  thread before the pointer was posted here, I had
the experience of reading all the posts at one time, which gives a
different impression (I suspect) from being involved in posting answers
over a period of several days (or weeks, or whatever -- I didn't look at
the dates).

The distinct impression  that I got was that this guy is having a lot of
fun with people who are trying to help him.  The questions are just a
little *too* stupid and a little *too* contrived.  IMHO.

John


2006\02\21@092353 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
Has anyone actually checked his profile to make sure that he didn't fill out
his age to be 14 ?

Sean

2006\02\21@093702 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
On 2/21/06, John Nall <@spam@jwnallKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> The distinct impression  that I got was that this guy is having a lot of
> fun with people who are trying to help him.  The questions are just a
> little *too* stupid and a little *too* contrived.  IMHO.


He could very well be serious about it though. If this is really a joke, his
sense of humor is too good to be true;


I couldn't stop laughing after I read his reply to azcraigrr's mumbo-jumbo!
Haha!!!



Sean

2006\02\21@100027 by David VanHorn

picon face
Don't you guys dare tell him that the AVR is ideally suited for C.

2006\02\21@101528 by Sergey Dryga

face picon face
Olin Lathrop <olin_piclist <at> embedinc.com> writes:

<snip>
> Someone has already done something close.  Take a look at post #51 at
> http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=141130&mpage=3 near the bottom of the
> page.  I'm wondering what the professor will think when he gets that babble
> back as answers to the homework assignment!
>

I can't help but laugh at the answer this guy had (post #54)
quote: "This guy had some many new functions and names not in my C++ book maybe
he is writing in a different language"!

Maybe he will learn this new language!




2006\02\21@101744 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
On 2/21/06, David VanHorn <KILLspamdvanhornKILLspamspammicrobrix.com> wrote:
>
> Don't you guys dare tell him that the AVR is ideally suited for C.
> -

2006\02\21@105822 by David VanHorn

picon face
>
> Haha, and re-direct him to atmel forums? Genius!
> --


NOOOOOOO NOOOOOO!!!!

2006\02\21@110815 by Mario Mendes Jr.

flavicon
face
I love Olin's answer.  However, did you guys ever think of the possibility of
this was posted by a troll?

Before I purchased my first telescope I joined a amateur astronomy newsgroup
to ask questions and the like.  That board had the misfortune of having a few
trolls subscribed to it who insisted in posting things about astrology and
xfiles type things.  Some of the posts were obviously written up just to get
people pissed off and write some irate replies and others to make it look like
they were beginers asking stupid questions and have people explain over and
over how something was not possible because of this and that other thing.

The best thing to do in these cases is to NOT reply.  Eventually the person
gets the message that no one is paying attention to their posts and never
posts again.

I still like Olin's reply though.  Hahahaha.


-Mario


{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\02\21@114356 by Dave Lag

picon face
David VanHorn wrote:
> Don't you guys dare tell him that the AVR is ideally suited for C.

I'm thinking that Onestone and the "430" boys should have a go first ;)

Seriously, many knowledgeable folks offered great information in those
threads. I (for one)appreciate their trust that the questions were in
good faith and the thought and effort put into the replies. Many
attempts at repackaging information in ways they hoped he could relate
to. I think with some editing it would make a wonderful tutorial.

It really highlights the donation of time and experience you guys offer.
I hope those that are not here will read this on nabble/whatever.
Dave


2006\02\21@125121 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Someone has already done something close.  Take a look at post #51 at
>forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=141130&mpage=3
>near the bottom of the page.  I'm wondering what the
>professor will think when he gets that babble
>back as answers to the homework assignment!

Yet more grins ...

The more I read what the OP guy has written, the more I get the feeling he
is just trying to wind up a bunch of clued up guys. Some are taking the
bait, and some are attempting to take him for a ride.

2006\02\21@125235 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
> http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=141598
>
> This guy (markphaser) is one of the most "interesting" people
> I have even seen in Microchip forum.

The thing that gets me is this: How many people in this world were
apparently not raised by mothers that taught "if you can't say something
nice, just DON'T SAY ANYTHING!"

The best response to a question that doesn't make sense is to say nothing.
Or if you really want to be helpful, just say "that doesn't make sense." Why
is it so hard for some people to just... Shut... Up.... ???

My take on this guy is that he is one of these guys from Singapore or India
who is taking college courses to get a degree and is not really interested
in learning the material or doesn't have the time and energy. Lots of these
guys show up on other boards. My standard reply is "I charge $$ per hour,
payable in advance... And I won't do homework for you without contacting
your professor."

> I do not know what will happen if he posts the questions to PICList.

Hopefully, members of this list who feel the need will go home and kick
their dog instead and leave this guy with no replies or just "that doesn't
make sense" as I suggested above.

Calling him names or making nonsensical replies is beneath us here, right?

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
RemoveMEjamesnewtonTakeThisOuTspampiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


2006\02\21@125432 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Don't you guys dare tell him that the AVR is ideally suited for C.

No, that one is also highly suited to the sarCASM language ...

It is the special features of the ASM when added with the C part of the
previous CHASM language that make it so special.

2006\02\21@130647 by William Couture

face picon face
On 2/21/06, Alan B. Pearce <spamBeGoneA.B.PearcespamBeGonespamrl.ac.uk> wrote:
> >Don't you guys dare tell him that the AVR is ideally suited for C.
>
> No, that one is also highly suited to the sarCASM language ...
>
> It is the special features of the ASM when added with the C part of the
> previous CHASM language that make it so special.

Personally, I like to use VALGOL for programming.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/6271/compu004.html

Bill

--
Psst...  Hey, you... Buddy...  Want a kitten?  straycatblues.petfinder.org

2006\02\21@143439 by olin piclist

face picon face
James Newton, Host wrote:
> The best response to a question that doesn't make sense is to say
> nothing.

No, it's not.  No response gives no indication as to why.

> Or if you really want to be helpful, just say "that doesn't
> make sense."

If you look at the original thread I posted a link to you will see that
people tried to do just that.  He was only dismissed as an idiot and then
eventually ridiculed after many repeated nonsensical posts and no indication
he listened to any of the advice.

> Why is it so hard for some people to just... Shut... Up.... ???

Because this whole thing is really funny and people like a good laugh.  This
bozo is already way past deserving any respect, so no harm done.  Besides,
he doesn't seem to get it even when people ridicule him head on.

C'mon James, you never made fun of the class bozo behind his back when you
were in school?

If you think about it, public ridicule probably evolved as an adaptive
strategy.  It's too wide spread not to be.  It's a social mechanism to
discourage errant behaviour and to augment natural selection in weeding out
the moron genes by making is socially acceptable to provide them less
resources.  You may like to act PC, but the world isn't, never was, and
shouldn't be.

> My take on this guy is that he is one of these guys from Singapore or
> India who is taking college courses to get a degree and is not really
> interested in learning the material or doesn't have the time and
> energy.

Possibly, but that's hardly deserving of respect either.  All we know about
him is what he posted, so that's what he is being judged by.  I did early on
ask him several specific questions about his background, but he just ignored
them and continued with more nonsensical questions.

> Calling him names or making nonsensical replies is beneath us here,
> right?

Not at all.  It would certainly liven up the list a little.  People will
stifle themselves here only because you insist on it.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\02\21@151433 by Lindy Mayfield

flavicon
face
I was disappointed to read through the threads and not find out what he was up to.  I often like to then go back to the original post and see if it would have made sense.  

A proper response to such a vague question can be volumes.  A good response to a specific question is much easier to answer and more helpful to the asker.

To me this is obvious.  And when it isn't people point out where things should be more specific and things move on.

Thing is I see these sorts of questions quite often in other groups with people from the cultures you mention. They just cannot seem to ask questions (though this is the most exaggerated I've seen so far.)  I'm normally patient until it gets painful then I just drop it.  

I wonder if it is a cultural thing, because of the way education is done there, or because of the language differences.  



-----Original Message-----
From: TakeThisOuTpiclist-bouncesEraseMEspamspam_OUTmit.edu [RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu] On Behalf Of James Newton, Host
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:52 PM


My take on this guy is that he is one of these guys from Singapore or India
who is taking college courses to get a degree and is not really interested
in learning the material or doesn't have the time and energy. Lots of these
guys show up on other boards.


2006\02\21@151617 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> C'mon James, you never made fun of the class bozo behind his
> back when you were in school?

(Wouter responding)

NO. In most classes I was his best friend, or else I tried to defend
him. Especially if it was the class bully making the fun.

>> Calling him names or making nonsensical replies is beneath us here,
>> right?
>
> Not at all.  It would certainly liven up the list a little.  
> People will stifle themselves here only because you insist on it.

Olin, why would you want do call anyone names? You have the ability to
express the same thing in a funny way. The target guy probably won't get
the message anyway, but if you reply in your fun mode we all get a good
laugh, and James does not have to take action.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\02\21@151904 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote:

> If you think about it, public ridicule probably evolved as an adaptive
> strategy.  It's too wide spread not to be.  It's a social mechanism to
> discourage errant behaviour and to augment natural selection in weeding out
> the moron genes by making is socially acceptable to provide them less
> resources.  

Hm... As I see it, the number of children one has (plus of course how many
children the children will have, and so on) is the only quality affecting
evolution. I don't think there is good evidence that the ridiculed ones
(with the 'moron genes') have fewer children than the bullies. Fewer
one-night stands, maybe, but not necessarily fewer children. I think there
are many behavior models that developed and propagate through processes
that are not evolutional processes, and sometimes even are a perversion of
models once created through an evolutional process.

Gerhard

2006\02\21@153919 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
On 2/21/06, Lindy Mayfield <Lindy.MayfieldEraseMEspam.....ssf.sas.com> wrote:
>
> I was disappointed to read through the threads and not find out what he
> was up to.  I often like to then go back to the original post and see if it
> would have made sense.


I guessing (like Howard W.) that this guy is trying to make some sort of
synthesizer as he has also been looking at 1) controlling some synthesizer
chip out of  a vintage computer. 2) "Controlling DSP chips" as he puts it
himself. 3) Looking at using the ADC to sample sound. 4) Looking at
outputting SET waveforms like sine/saw/triangle. 5) asking how to physically
re-route resistor networks and naming filters in one of his examples.

What else could it be?


A proper response to such a vague question can be volumes.  A good response
{Quote hidden}

I don't think that it's a cultural thing. I have had contact with lots of
Indians etc, and they all seemed to be up to spec. I don't see a cultural
problem. Most of them are very eager to learn as well!

Sean

2006\02\21@155633 by Jinx

face picon face
> The distinct impression  that I got was that this guy is having a lot of
> fun with people who are trying to help him.  The questions are just a
> little *too* stupid and a little *too* contrived.  IMHO.

When he replies with -

"Which programming instructions do u use with a microcontoller?

If then else , for next loops, functions,variables , goto , subrounties

Union,shared,swap,structures,combine functions?"

that tells me (a) he knows exactly what he's doing and/or (b) he is
quite capable of reading a manual and example code

Judging by the language, I'd say he's a teenaged boy with enough
spare time to just wind people up

Anyone remember (shudder) Jose Samonte from ~5 years ago ?

2006\02\21@160143 by Peter

picon face

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=141598
>
> This guy (markphaser) is one of the most "interesting" people I have even
> seen in Microchip forum.
>
> I do not know what will happen if he posts the questions to PIClist.

Sooner or later someone is going to administer a Turing test to some
technical discussion group. That I want to watch ;-) Given some of the
postings that appear on some discussion groups, imho, it will be likely
that the group will *fail* the Turing test on a real human instead of
the robot. Hehehh. If someone knows about such an event please post the
URL ?

thanks,
Peter

2006\02\21@160918 by Peter

picon face

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> I'll tell him he's an idiot and James will boot me off the list.  Good thing
> then he hasn't found the PIClist yet ;-)

I think that some exceptions could be made ;-)

Peter

2006\02\21@162707 by Lindy Mayfield

flavicon
face
That's exactly what I was thinking when I read those threads.  It was because I got the sense that things were repeated verbatim, and not reworded in some ways like people normally do.  

Maybe the guy was just testing his software.  Was it successful?

I don't know because these were the conclusions I understood:

1) You need to explain more
2) You are stupid
3) You are not a native English speaker
4) You are a troll
5) You are a total beginner in a field you know nothing about

And so on, but I don't think are ready for:

6) Oh, that's just another robot, ignore/ban it.

On the IRC years ago I remember clever robots that would try to interact with people.  Once you realize it is a robot you just ignore it.

I think you're on to something here, Peter.


-----Original Message-----
From: EraseMEpiclist-bouncesspammit.edu [RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesEraseMEspamEraseMEmit.edu] On Behalf Of Peter

Sooner or later someone is going to administer a Turing test to some
technical discussion group. That I want to watch ;-) Given some of the
postings that appear on some discussion groups, imho, it will be likely
that the group will *fail* the Turing test on a real human instead of
the robot. Hehehh. If someone knows about such an event please post the
URL ?


2006\02\21@163646 by Randy Glenn

picon face
This one comes close:

http://www.blogcadre.com/blog/jason_striegel/how_i_failed_the_turing_test_2005_09_04_13_26_29

On 2/21/06, Peter <RemoveMEplpspam_OUTspamKILLspamactcom.co.il> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\02\21@174216 by peiserma

flavicon
face
piclist-bounces@mit.edu wrote:
> If you think about it, public ridicule probably evolved as an
> adaptive strategy.  It's too wide spread not to be.  It's a
> social mechanism to discourage errant behaviour and to
> augment natural selection in weeding out the moron genes by
> making is socially acceptable to provide them less resources.

I believe this to be very true, although I see it more as a
behaviour-modification mechanism. Ostracising those who don't
follow the society's norm used to be a very powerful behavoir
modification tool.

Unfortunately in today's PC culture, you can't say anything,
and a lot of the younger generation seems not to care. There is
little sense of shame left.

Or maybe I'm just getting older and more cynical.

>> My take on this guy is that he is one of these guys from Singapore or
>> India who is taking college courses to get a degree and is not really
>> interested in learning the material or doesn't have the time and
>> energy.
>
> Possibly, but that's hardly deserving of respect either.  

even worse, he'll be employed by some large Indian company, and then
some large US multinational company will decide it's a good idea to
outsource engineering work due to the cheap labor. And then you have
to work with them, causing endless frustration and slipped schedules.
Ask me how I know this... And I take it personally because they call
themselves "Engineer". Does the phrase "Integrity and Excellence...."
ring a bell with anyone?

The respect should go both ways. I read some of the messages, and saw
people trying to help; only after it became apparant that the person
asking the question just wasn't getting it (and became a little hostile
and/or irritated) was there really ridicule.

I'm still undecided if it's a troll or someone trying to learn who is
both in way over their head and unwilling to do the basic homework
necessary.

2006\02\21@174911 by Jinx

face picon face
> > If you're going to point people to this for their entertainment, you
> > should point them to the original thread

> > http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=141130&mpage=1

If markphaser was not a troll -

I was very surprised not to see the answer usually given here

What PIC do you want to use and have you read the manual ?

Did you understand the manual and the examples ?

Do you have MPLAB and a programmer ?

And no links (that I saw) to any of many constructional projects on
the web showing what a PIC actually does in a circuit

It seemed to me that basic connection with markphaser was never
made, which could be why he persisted with C++ and commands
for the Stamp

2006\02\21@175613 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 2/21/06, David VanHorn <RemoveMEdvanhornTakeThisOuTspamspammicrobrix.com> wrote:
> >
> > Haha, and re-direct him to atmel forums? Genius!
> > --
>
> NOOOOOOO NOOOOOO!!!!

I think this guy will soon go there as well. ;-)


According to the Microchip Forum post, "markphaser" is active in quite
some forums:

AMPAGE Guitar Tech Forums:
www.firebottle.com/fireforum/fireBB.cgi?cfg=gt&forum=pmgd&enter=go
Guitar Tricks:
www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?s=64c4a261a2d1b04829ab99a3b15b42c9&p=146440#post146440
Parallax:
forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=15&m=109135
Codeguru:
www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375678
Lava-Usergroup:
forums.lavausergroup.org/index.php?s=ffa3ecb93375f36397e516cb3b233149&showtopic=2670
Basicmicro:
forums.basicmicro.net/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=17092
Programmingforums:
http://www.programmingforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8473

2006\02\21@175711 by Sergey Dryga

face picon face
Lindy Mayfield <Lindy.Mayfield <at> ssf.sas.com> writes:

>
> I was disappointed to read through the threads and not find out what he was
up to.  I often like to then go back to
> the original post and see if it would have made sense.  
>
> A proper response to such a vague question can be volumes.  A good response
to a specific question is much
> easier to answer and more helpful to the asker.
>
> To me this is obvious.  And when it isn't people point out where things
should be more specific and things move on.
>
> Thing is I see these sorts of questions quite often in other groups with
people from the cultures you
> mention. They just cannot seem to ask questions (though this is the most
exaggerated I've seen so far.)  I'm
> normally patient until it gets painful then I just drop it.  
>
> I wonder if it is a cultural thing, because of the way education is done
there, or because of the language
> differences.  

I think it is not just a cultural thing.  Some people want answers without
taking a time to try to understand the problem and find solution themselves.  
I usually try to help if I can when I see a person have made an attempt and hit
a stumbling block.  Everybody does it sometime.  But when a person does not
even make an attempt to learn, it ticks me off and I ignore it.

Asking questions like "how does transistor work?" is not an attempt to learn,
it is an attempt to highjack the list, IMHO.  There is a great rule, RTFM!

Sergey

2006\02\21@181007 by Danny Sauer

flavicon
face
peiserma wrote regarding 'RE: [OT] You got to read this in Microchip Forum' on Tue, Feb 21 at 16:45:
> EraseMEpiclist-bouncesspamspamspamBeGonemit.edu wrote:
> > If you think about it, public ridicule probably evolved as an
> > adaptive strategy.  It's too wide spread not to be.  It's a
> > social mechanism to discourage errant behaviour and to
> > augment natural selection in weeding out the moron genes by
> > making is socially acceptable to provide them less resources.
>
> I believe this to be very true, although I see it more as a
> behaviour-modification mechanism. Ostracising those who don't
> follow the society's norm used to be a very powerful behavoir
> modification tool.

Isn't that how religion works? :)

Regardless, I was just reading something on Slashdot about potential
prehistoric human predators being the reason humans learned to work
together - developing a "strength in numbers" kind of beneficial
society.  So it would stand to reason that the people more likely to
cause damage to the social group (aka "dumb people", "poor breeding
stock", etc) would be encouraged to leave the group.

Unfortunately for the US, at least, the dumb aren't rejected
adequately to reduce their breeding potential, and they've reached the
point where they're a vocal majority.  So it's actually become a
problem in modern times to praise a student who excels in academic
pursuits.  It's become more socially acceptable to be dumb than to be
smart.  Weird.  Or, *I* think it's weird, anyway.

--Danny

2006\02\21@183223 by Jinx

face picon face
> http://www.programmingforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8473

Just love the tumbleweed for post #15. Says it all

2006\02\21@185120 by William Killian

flavicon
face


> -----Original Message-----
> From: RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu [piclist-bouncesSTOPspamspamspam_OUTmit.edu] On
Behalf
{Quote hidden}

You are just talking about two kinds of political correctness.  One is
make everyone conform to one standard or to not force that particular
standard anymore?  One is it is politically correct only to behave the
way the 'traditional' group thinks.  Or the correct behavior is to
follow a 'new tradition'.

Both are really the same thing.

> Or maybe I'm just getting older and more cynical.
>
> >> My take on this guy is that he is one of these guys from Singapore
or
> >> India who is taking college courses to get a degree and is not
really
{Quote hidden}

hostile
> and/or irritated) was there really ridicule.
>
> I'm still undecided if it's a troll or someone trying to learn who is
> both in way over their head and unwilling to do the basic homework
> necessary.

I was thinking lazy student.  But it seems more and more merely
trollish.



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2006\02\21@190034 by James Newton, Host

face picon face

> Regardless, I was just reading something on Slashdot about
> potential prehistoric human predators being the reason humans
> learned to work together - developing a "strength in numbers"
> kind of beneficial society.  So it would stand to reason that
> the people more likely to cause damage to the social group
> (aka "dumb people", "poor breeding stock", etc) would be
> encouraged to leave the group.

Silence is also a form of encouraging people to leave. See, the thing is
that silence works with BOTH of the type of people you don't want in a
forum.

A) Trolls: They don't get a rise, and they leave.
B) Low IQ: They don't get help and they leave.

Berating, joking, screaming, and otherwise clogging up the 'net is totally
ineffective against trolls. What all those things DO accomplish is to make
the person who is doing the berating, joking and so on feel "BIG" and
"BETTER" and "SMARTER" than the other person. And this is, I suspect, the
true motive.

> Unfortunately for the US, at least, the dumb aren't rejected
> adequately to reduce their breeding potential, and they've
> reached the point where they're a vocal majority.  So it's
> actually become a problem in modern times to praise a student
> who excels in academic pursuits.  It's become more socially
> acceptable to be dumb than to be smart.  Weird.  Or, *I*
> think it's weird, anyway.

Backlash against frighteningly rapid technological progress? I don't know.
But calling people dumb is dumb.

One of the best examples I ever saw was at a martial arts event. Some young
jerk wanted to demonstrate a move with an older, wiser, man who had been
talking with our group. Rather than say anything, the old man just turned
and strolled away. Those in our group who wanted to talk to the old man
followed him, those that wanted to see this young guy and his move stayed
behind. It was... Perfect.

Sadly, that doesn't seem to translate to forums...

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
spamBeGonejamesnewtonspamKILLspampiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


2006\02\21@191427 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
James Newton, Host wrote:

> One of the best examples I ever saw was at a martial arts event. Some young
> jerk wanted to demonstrate a move with an older, wiser, man who had been
> talking with our group. Rather than say anything, the old man just turned
> and strolled away. Those in our group who wanted to talk to the old man
> followed him, those that wanted to see this young guy and his move stayed
> behind. It was... Perfect.

The high art of martial arts is to not get in a fight in the first place.
Once you get into one, you have already lost the first battle :)

Gerhard

2006\02\21@202404 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
On 2/21/06, Xiaofan Chen <.....xiaofancspam_OUTspamgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

looks of it all! Well, when he comes here, if he even manages to subscribe
to the list, we're prepared (I am anyway, don't know about you guys). I do
think that the best way to take care of a guy like this would be to just
ignore him. That's the nice thing about GMAIL, it has some good mail
filtering capabilities!

Everything markphaser posts seems to be audio related. I am getting more and
more interested in what he exactly wants to do, although I do have a rough
idea. I also know he wants to achieve his goal by interfacing a sound chip
that Atari's have on board.

I have just noticed that the admins have kicked in on the Microchip Forum
and that his posts have -disappeared-, x-files style.

Have a look at: http://cboard.cprogramming.com/showthread.php?t=75972  and
http://cboard.cprogramming.com/showthread.php?t=75742   -    In this case I
would say that the interaction between him and other forum members isn't too
bad, although reading his posts still gives me a headache!!!

I would love to skype with this guy to find out more about him as a person.
After all, it is real hard to gauge someones personality and true intent
just by reading a line of text. For all you know I could be Mickey Mouse in
the analog world. No need to bother searching skype for markphaser; been
there, done that.

Sean.

2006\02\21@203201 by Carlos A. Marcano V.

picon face
Any ideas on why, althought I am a registered forum user, I get a sort
of "Forbidden acces" message when I hit the link?

Regards,

*Carlos Marcano*
-Guri, Venezuela-

Xiaofan Chen escribió:

{Quote hidden}

2006\02\21@204055 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
On 2/22/06, James Newton, Host <TakeThisOuTjamesnewtonKILLspamspamspampiclist.com> wrote:
>
>
> One of the best examples I ever saw was at a martial arts event. Some
> young
> jerk wanted to demonstrate a move with an older, wiser, man who had been
> talking with our group. Rather than say anything, the old man just turned
> and strolled away. Those in our group who wanted to talk to the old man
> followed him, those that wanted to see this young guy and his move stayed
> behind. It was... Perfect.
>
> Sadly, that doesn't seem to translate to forums...



That could be because participating in a forum is like being locked-up in a
little room with a bunch of people. You would really have to have the will
to ignore that one person, especially if the time span >= 5 minutes.
Although I am still young, I do know from experience that it is actually
much harder to ignore someone than it is to confront them.

2006\02\21@204203 by Sean Schouten

face picon face
On 2/22/06, Carlos A. Marcano V. <.....c.marcanospamRemoveMEgmail.com> wrote:
>
> Any ideas on why, althought I am a registered forum user, I get a sort
> of "Forbidden acces" message when I hit the link?
>
> Yes, like I mentioned earlier:  The forum admins have kicked in and
finally disabled or even deleted his threads.

2006\02\21@205657 by Mario Mendes Jr.

flavicon
face
Guys,

This is definitely a troll in my book.  I say this because in all of the
posts the theme is the same, a bunch of questions, very few
acknowledgments and more questions.  The other very common thing is how
fast a few repliers seem to get annoyed at him.  Also note how many
times the same questions is posted even after someone has given some
sort of an answer.  It is never an "Oh, I see, but how do I use that
with this other thing?".

The one I like the most is a reply to one of his posts that said
"G.O.O.G.L.E" an he then replied, "Yes, google is good but...." followed
by a bunch of additional questions.

Heck, he's not even subscribed to the piclist and he's managed to get us
all wound up in his garbage already!

If this guy ends up here, he'll end up in my ignore list right away.  

Thanks.



-mmj


{Original Message removed}

2006\02\21@210045 by Mario Mendes Jr.

flavicon
face
> Although I am still young, I do know from experience that it
> is actually much harder to ignore someone than it is to confront them.

Isn't this how wars get started?

2006\02\21@215648 by Jinx

face picon face
> > Although I am still young, I do know from experience that it
> > is actually much harder to ignore someone than it is to confront
> them.
>
> Isn't this how wars get started?

Unfortunately there are people who are just spoiling for a fight
no matter what you do. Ignore them and they might not go away,
but escalate things until you have no choice. Confront them, sooner
or later, and it was just the excuse they were looking for. Put yourself
in the place of any peaceful person/nation who is subjected to repeated
potentially or actually deadly but minor attacks. Turning the other cheek
is admirable but the "Oh, bugger this for a laugh" point is going to be
reached one day

In the case of someone like markphaser I would ask simple direct
questions. That puts the ball squarely in his court. For example,

Did you read the manual ?
No. Go and read it then
Yes. What didn't you understand ?

And if they were not answered properly, that says one of two things.
Either the person is just too thick or out of their depth and needs a
personal tutor or they're being a deliberate PITA for sport

Then you ignore them and move on to someone who appreciates
the help or was able to learn to help themselves. It has happened
on PIClist with people who just aren't cut out to be s/w engineers.
>From what I saw of markphaser's posts, assuming he was not
being just an annoying troll, he seemed unable or unwilling to take
even the first step in a discussion by saying what he actually knew
and what he wanted to do

2006\02\22@041841 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> http://www.programmingforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8473
>
>Just love the tumbleweed for post #15. Says it all

<VBG>
Looked at his profile there, it gives a birthdate of January 1979, so the
guy should have some sensible intelligence, assuming that date is accurate.

2006\02\22@043003 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Olin Lathrop [RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesspamspamBeGonemit.edu]
>Sent: 21 February 2006 19:36
>To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
>Subject: Re: [OT] You got to read this in Microchip Forum
>
>
>Because this whole thing is really funny and people like a
>good laugh.  This bozo is already way past deserving any
>respect, so no harm done.  Besides, he doesn't seem to get it
>even when people ridicule him head on.

Because I fear he's not the fool that you belive he is, but actualy intelligent enough to able able to post just the right things to wind a bunch of people up. AKA a troll.  The trouble with trolls is that they are attention seekers, and they don't care if the attention is good or bad.  To really hurt them, just give them no attention at all.

Regards

Mike

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2006\02\22@050401 by Radhakrishnan R.

flavicon
face
Just googled for "Markphaser" and ended up with some 21 "interesting"
search results spanning posts in music, electronics, microcontrollers
:)
regards,
rk

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Rigby-Jones" <spamBeGoneMichael.Rigby-Jones@spam@spamspam_OUTbookham.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <TakeThisOuTpiclistspamspammit.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: RE: [OT] You got to read this in Microchip Forum


>
>
> >{Original Message removed}

2006\02\22@052602 by Lindy Mayfield

flavicon
face
There is a strange sort of pattern there I can't put my finger on.

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-bouncesEraseMEspammit.edu [RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesEraseMEspamspam_OUTmit.edu] On Behalf Of Radhakrishnan R.
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:05 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [OT] You got to read this in Microchip Forum

Just googled for "Markphaser" and ended up with some 21 "interesting"
search results spanning posts in music, electronics, microcontrollers
:)
regards,
rk



2006\02\22@053907 by Joe McCauley

picon face
Well put Mike. Now in the interests of starving the troll of the Oxygen of
publicity, maybe we should drop this thread. After all if anyone can Google
his handle & come up with "interesting" posts, then so too can he. Given
that this list is mirrored on the web, do we really want to draw him in
here?

This kind of thing is funny once, but gets old really quickly.

Joe

{Original Message removed}

2006\02\22@063504 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
>> Just googled for "Markphaser" and ended up with some 21 "interesting"
>> search results spanning posts in music, electronics, microcontrollers

> There is a strange sort of pattern there I can't put my finger on. >
:)

On of my favourite sayings is "the most likely cause for *anything* is
sheer human stupidity/ignorance/arrogance/*".

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\02\22@093917 by William Couture

face picon face
On 2/21/06, Danny Sauer <@spam@piclistRemoveMEspamEraseMEdannysauer.com> wrote:

> Unfortunately for the US, at least, the dumb aren't rejected
> adequately to reduce their breeding potential, and they've reached the
> point where they're a vocal majority.  So it's actually become a
> problem in modern times to praise a student who excels in academic
> pursuits.  It's become more socially acceptable to be dumb than to be
> smart.  Weird.  Or, *I* think it's weird, anyway.

"The Marching Morons" are here!

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_M._Kornbluth)

Bill

--
Psst...  Hey, you... Buddy...  Want a kitten?  straycatblues.petfinder.org

2006\02\22@102721 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
On 2/21/06, Jinx <EraseMEjoecolquittspam@spam@clear.net.nz> wrote:
> If markphaser was not a troll -
>
> I was very surprised not to see the answer usually given here
>
> What PIC do you want to use and have you read the manual ?
>
> Did you understand the manual and the examples ?
>
> Do you have MPLAB and a programmer ?
>
> And no links (that I saw) to any of many constructional projects on
> the web showing what a PIC actually does in a circuit
>
> It seemed to me that basic connection with markphaser was never
> made, which could be why he persisted with C++ and commands
> for the Stamp

I haven't read through all of his posts, but I do recall at one point
someone trying to bring things down to a common starting point by
asking if he's read the manual and so forth.

In order to communicate effectively with him, one has to understand
what he's talking about.  So far I can't understand his questions well
enough to provide an answer, and it appears I'm not alone.  Most of
the early posts were attempts to forge a common understanding - in
this case asking him basic electronics questions to test his
understanding of simple concepts.  He has dismissed all such
questions, and moved straight back into questions that are difficult
(at best) to understand.  If he provided a great deal of context it
might be possible to figure out what he really needs.

I'm curious to know where he's getting these questions from.  Someone
or something is giving him interesting words and phrases that he
clearly does not understand.  It sounds like he's skimming a medium
level digital audio electronics text.

He apparantly is not interested in _learning_ these concepts, only in
implementing them.  It _really_ frustrates engineers because we are
often as interested in the journey as the end result, but he appears
to be interested only in the result.  Many people get along in life
just fine by hitting their head against the wall to break through
instead of learning and using the tools needed to get through, over,
or around the wall.  It's just not efficient because after this wall
there's always another wall.  But it works, and perhaps this is the
only method he knows.

-Adam

2006\02\22@110216 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Danny Sauer wrote:

> Unfortunately for the US, at least, the dumb aren't rejected
> adequately to reduce their breeding potential, ...

Not sure this has to do with the USA at all. This probably precedes the
creation of the USA by a long time. I don't have the feeling that the dumb
ever have been rejected at that level. (The dumb are not only male :)

Gerhard

2006\02\22@114452 by Danny Sauer

flavicon
face
Gerhard wrote regarding 'Re: [OT] You got to read this in Microchip
Forum' on Wed, Feb 22 at 10:04:
> Danny Sauer wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately for the US, at least, the dumb aren't rejected
> > adequately to reduce their breeding potential, ...
>
> Not sure this has to do with the USA at all. This probably precedes
> the creation of the USA by a long time. I don't have the feeling
> that the dumb ever have been rejected at that level. (The dumb are
> not only male :)

I'm not sure if that's comforting or not. :)

--Danny

2006\02\22@164713 by Jinx

face picon face
> Most of the early posts were attempts to forge a common
> understanding - in this case asking him basic electronics
> questions to test his understanding of simple concepts.  He
> has dismissed all such questions, and moved straight back
> into questions that are difficult (at best) to understand.  If he
> provided a great deal of context it might be possible to figure
> out what he really needs

And, as I said, if the person doesn't answer those simple basic
questions, you move on (** see below). It appeared to me that
markphaser, deliberately or not, was in control of the discussions.
Forum members were responding (taking the bait ?) and just
wasting their time. I noticed that he copied/pasted some of his
posts verbatim to other forums, interspersed with varying obtuse
questions

** The OP of the thread "[PIC] 2 questions about 18f4550" has
been asked by at least 3 people to explain what exactly he is
trying to do and what he wants to know. But he's not responded,
so I've no further interest

2006\02\22@212321 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Danny Sauer wrote:

>> (The dumb are not only male :)
>
> I'm not sure if that's comforting or not. :)

That depends probably mostly of where you think you are relative to the
"dumb line"

Gerhard


'[OT] You got to read this in Microchip Forum'
2006\03\05@190102 by Nate Duehr
face
flavicon
face
peiserma@ridgid.com wrote:

> Unfortunately in today's PC culture, you can't say anything,
> and a lot of the younger generation seems not to care. There is
> little sense of shame left.

The proliferation of PC culture is exactly WHY they don't care.

Saying you "can't say something" about the PC-heads only proves the kids
biggest fear... That you can't handle your own life, so why should they
let you dictate theirs?

In the eyes of the kids, their elders allowed (and even created), the PC
culture.

They now see that PC culture as an out-of-control thing they can not
avoid or conquer, even as the adults are also seemingly giving up on
fixing it.

Thus, as a mental self-defense, they've decided they don't care about
the adult's idea of "right" or about being PC.

Shame has no meaning in a context where there's no mutual respect.

Nate

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