Post by thread:[OT] Resume help for person out of field for 8 yea

Hello, I’m looking for some suggestions to help me with a rather large dilemma. As the subject line suggested, I have been away from engineering for the last 8 years and I need to re-enter the field (specifically embedded hardware and/or software). Although I’ve been keeping track of new technologies and even winning some design contests (as a hobby of course), not having a record for the last eight years is a giant problem. I know that both HR and hiring managers prefer chronological resumes, and that functional resumes without dates are typically tossed without being read. Does anyone have any suggestions for the resume format, as well as hints for showing my worth (despite the long absence)? My pseudo-resume with the bad (1998-Present) would look something like this: 1998-Present Full time unrelated stock market investing, i.e., no boss, employees or being accountable to anyone except myself. Occasional “engineering design contest entries” in the last 2 years (I couldn’t keep away). 1996-1998 Ran small part-time (one-man) engineering business (active-x controls) – sold them online and via advertisements. Part time unrelated stock market investing. 1995-1997 Contracted at XYZ company developing embedded hardware/firmware. (It seems the contract house I went through no longer exists) 1985-1994 Worked at XYZ company for 10 years (1985-1994) developing embedded hardware/firmware. (All potential references seem to have scattered in the winds of time!) 1984 BSEE Other than being thankful you are not me and then hitting the delete key, if anyone has any useful ideas, I would really appreciate hearing them. Thanks. Old_Engineer

spam_OUTold_engineerTakeThisOuTadelphia.net wrote: >Other than being thankful you are not me and then >hitting the delete key, > I am thankful that my life in engineering started many years before you, Does this make me an ANCIENT engineer? (I still think tubes had some good attributes.) I am thankful for the situation I am in, not the way it could have been. > if anyone has any useful ideas, >I would really appreciate hearing them. > Your life is before you, With hard work, Hope, and prayer you can make it an enjoyable experience. >Thanks. > >Old_Engineer > Your welcome. Tom -- * | __O Thomas C. Sefranek .....WA1RHPKILLspam@spam@ARRL.net |_-\<,_ Amateur Radio Operator: WA1RHP (*)/ (*) Bicycle mobile on 145.41, 448.625 MHz hamradio.cmcorp.com/inventory/Inventory.html http://www.harvardrepeater.org

old_engineer@adelphia.net wrote: > I=E2=80=99m looking for some suggestions to help me with a > rather large dilemma. As the subject line suggested, > I have been away from engineering for the last 8=20 > years and I need to re-enter the field (specifically > embedded hardware and/or software). Although I=E2=80=99ve=20 > been keeping track of new technologies and even=20 > winning some design contests (as a hobby of course), > not having a record for the last eight years is a=20 > giant problem. Yup. It's going to be *very* tough to have someone not toss the resume on sight, whether an HR drone or the hiring manager. > I know that both HR and hiring managers > prefer chronological resumes, Yup. Don't try anything different. > and that functional > resumes without dates are typically tossed without > being read. Very likely. > Does anyone have any suggestions for the > resume format, You're not going to hide the fact that your 8 years out of date. Clearly you don't want to feature that, but don't try to lie about it either. It will be discovered in the end. > as well as hints for showing my worth (despite the long absence)? Well that's exactly the problem. You seem to be missing the point that your worth as an engineer *is* low, precisely because of the long absence. Face it, you abandoned your engineering career 8 years ago. You can't go backwards and magically fix it despite how much you think you can still do engineering. Nobody else is going to believe it. Frankly, I suspect you are significantly out of date on many fronts. Don't kid yourself that you are still current. > 1998-Present > Full time unrelated stock market investing,=20 > i.e., no boss, employees or being accountable > to anyone except myself. Don't lie, but accentuating the negative is a bad idea too. Say what you've been doing. Let the employer realize it wasn't engineering. No need to point out you were accountable to noone. > Occasional =E2=80=9Cengineering design contest entries=E2=80=9D > in the last 2 years (I couldn=E2=80=99t keep away). Spell these out specifically and give some details. > 1996-1998 > Ran small part-time (one-man) engineering=20 > business (active-x controls) =E2=80=93 sold them=20 > online and via advertisements. Again, no need to point out the one-man and part-time. > Part time unrelated stock market investing. I wouldn't even mention this. It says you weren't even committed to engineering when you were doing engineering. > if anyone has any useful ideas, > I would really appreciate hearing them. I see two ways to re-enter the engineering world: 1 - Go for an entry level position or technician just to get in the door. Of course this will come with pay commensurate to that position. If you're really really sure your still a good engineer, then this will give you a chance to prove it and move into a engineering role in that company in a year or so. 2 - Do consulting for a while thru friends and previous contacts that know you and might be willing to ignore you haven't been doing this for a long time. Make sure to pick something you can do. After a year or so and a few consulting jobs and happy customers as references, you can try floating your resume out there. The 8 year gap will still be an issue, but a lot less of one if you've done full time engineering successfully for at least a year since then. Make sure you are busy with a job when looking for full time work. Nobody wants to hire someone that nobody else wants to hire either. This is the thing too many otherwise intelligent people don't get. Never wait for the layoff to find a job. Otherwise people will wonder why you weren't good enough to be one of the people they kept, or not smart enough to know it was time to abandon ship. ****************************************************************** Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014. #1 PIC consultant in 2004 program year. http://www.embedinc.com/products

One thought I had about all this - is it necessary to get a "normal" salaried job? You've already done the one-man engineering business gig. Why not try going from design contests to freelance / contract projects? Or maybe the time spent being the one-man engineer is why you're going after a "normal" salaried job... :) Regardless, as long as freelance work doesn't preclude searching for or starting a "normal" job (due to time commitments) you might as well try to grow in that direction. No need to try to make equivalent per-hour as that salaried job, just some bucks to stay afloat and have fun. And hey, if you do get a big project or two that is paying pretty well, and have to put off the job search for awhile, you'll then have more to talk about down the road at job interviews. My only advice would be to document any freelance projects, at least a photo of the finished board. I try to keep a proto if possible to have in the "trophy case" to show to some future hypothetical hiring manager type. Ok I'm done procrastinating on my work. :) Good luck! J old_engineerKILLspamadelphia.net wrote: {Quote hidden}> Hello, > > I’m looking for some suggestions to help me with a > rather large dilemma. As the subject line suggested, > I have been away from engineering for the last 8 > years and I need to re-enter the field (specifically > embedded hardware and/or software). Although I’ve > been keeping track of new technologies and even > winning some design contests (as a hobby of course), > not having a record for the last eight years is a > giant problem. I know that both HR and hiring managers > prefer chronological resumes, and that functional > resumes without dates are typically tossed without > being read. Does anyone have any suggestions for the > resume format, as well as hints for showing my worth > (despite the long absence)? > > My pseudo-resume with the bad (1998-Present) would > look something like this: > > 1998-Present > Full time unrelated stock market investing, > i.e., no boss, employees or being accountable > to anyone except myself. > > Occasional “engineering design contest entries” > in the last 2 years (I couldn’t keep away). > > > 1996-1998 > Ran small part-time (one-man) engineering > business (active-x controls) – sold them > online and via advertisements. > > Part time unrelated stock market investing. > > 1995-1997 > Contracted at XYZ company developing embedded > hardware/firmware. (It seems the contract > house I went through no longer exists) > > 1985-1994 > Worked at XYZ company for 10 years (1985-1994) > developing embedded hardware/firmware. (All > potential references seem to have scattered > in the winds of time!) > > 1984 > BSEE > > Other than being thankful you are not me and then > hitting the delete key, if anyone has any useful ideas, > I would really appreciate hearing them. > > Thanks. > > Old_Engineer >

Olin Lathrop wrote: > Well that's exactly the problem. You seem to be missing the point that > your worth as an engineer *is* low, precisely because of the long > absence. Face it, you abandoned your engineering career 8 years ago. > You can't go backwards and magically fix it despite how much you think > you can still do engineering. Nobody else is going to believe it. > Frankly, I suspect you are significantly out of date on many fronts. > Don't kid yourself that you are still current. While that's probably true, it also probably is true for most fields for most full-time employees. Most (not all!) of the engineering employees I've known are not up to date on engineering matters not closely related to their jobs. And engineering has too many angles; often the next job one applies for will be closely related to one of those areas that were not closely related to the prior job. Which often makes an absence from engineering not that much different -- after all, you did gather experience in /something/, and that might well be relevant. The important thing is to put it in the right angle. It's a matter of seeing the relevant. As Olin pointed out, there are many things in the resume that seem to imply that /you/ don't see the relevant (yet), which also means that you can't expect your potential future boss to see it. Your resume should show what is relevant to an engineering job you want, not what's not. Did you not learn anything relevant to engineering during your stock trading time? That's been more than seven years (counting your previous part-time involvement). There must be something positive to get out of that, something that's relevant to an engineering job like you want it. Engineering projects live in a financial environment, have budgets that need to be managed, have relationships to their companies' stock value. Being able to manage yourself is a ability that's often valued. Don't talk only about activities, start to think also in skills. Try to get away from the "box view" and see the greater picture. Give it a positive spin -- give yourself a positive spin :) Don't think "I've been away for eight years", start to think "what is relevant to the type of job I want of what I did in the past eight (or ten, or...) years?" Give the things that are primarily relevant the prime location in your resume, and give the things that are just a bit relevant (maybe only to show that you didn't just do nothing) a "honorable mention". My resume is full of "time holes"; so far I never spent a long time in a row in any one activity. I never found that to be a problem. Often to the contrary. ("Oh, you play music, too?" -- and the conversation is already on a completely different level.) Of course, the focus of the resume changes with the activity I apply for -- as every document, it should be written with the target audience in mind, and should show what that audience wants to know. Sell yourself. That's what you want -- selling your services. If you just want a job, that's what you'll (probably) get, sooner or later, with almost any resume. But if you want a job where you can show who you are, do what you are good at doing, you need to point that out as clearly as possible in the resume. Gerhard