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'[OT] Google buys You Tube - one mans thoughtsFw: T'
2006\10\18@173405 by Russell McMahon

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face
Google is [beginning to|       ] look[    |ing]  [        |even]
scar[y|ier].

Thoughts from Jeff Pulver of VON. (Gargotube knows).


       Russell

____________________________

 Some thoughts on the Google Purchase of YouTube:

So it turns out that YouTube never had to turn a profit in order to be
sold for $1.65 Billion. Such is life in Silicon Valley in 2006. And
while there are a few other YouTube "me too" plays out there, there is
just one YouTube and it is now owned by Google. It was nice to see
YouTube prove that in 2006, the Field of Dreams, "if you build it
(traffic), they will come (an exit)" business model is alive and well.

(The thoughts that follow assume that Google will figure out the
solution to all of the underlying copyright issues that YouTube will
be facing in the future.)

Usually we don't see revolutions until after the fact (oftentimes many
years after the fact and only after years of analysis and digestion).
I suspect that historians might come to recognize yesterday's
announced acquisition of YouTube by Google, as one of the great
indicators of the effects on the Internet on the historic
transformation in the world of Media and Entertainment. The move by
Google in purchasing YouTube has the chance to be transformational;
but it will be up to Google to demonstrate its ability to overlay its
own business model into the bottom up community represented by
YouTube. This acquisition also demonstrates the power of the new media
establishment, which now includes Google, eBay and Myspace and the
ability of these new conglomerates with the power to gobble up ideas
created at the edge. I have to wonder whether the YouTube team will be
able to continue to innovate as part of a larger corporate
establishment, even if they are kept together as a brand an
d as a core team.

YouTube comes from a place where it knows about community; how to
build community, and how to enable end-users within its community to
share videos and common experiences. I wonder how much of this
"community experience" will transfer over to the culture within
Google. While Google could easily add a rich IP-based communications
capability to YouTube -- including IM, voice and presence applications
it will be interesting to see how far Google goes in the future to
incorporate YouTube into its core assets and core offerings.

Companies like YouTube that live in the "bottom up" space know what
people want -- and now, via Goggle's enabling technology, can deliver
the applications that people may really want. By improving the ability
of YouTube users to "see" others "presence" with GoogleTalk, the
effect could be the evolution of the overall user experience.

And if you take the elements of Google, including their micro-payments
capability, and the IP-based communications capabilities of GoogleTalk
and now YouTube, we may be seeing the formation of a fully functional
next generation "TV Network of the Net." Google could very likely
deliver contextual advertising in those videos, thus proving a way to
drive revenue through even the stupidest pet trick video. While I have
been looking elsewhere, Google might be the first to be able to
deliver on the vision I shared at Fall 2006 Video on the Net and be
the ones to first deliver the "digital popcorn" and platform for the
future of TV. Given the Google DNA this is a possibility...but it may
take someone else to turn this into a reality.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
(c) 2006 pulver.com Inc., All Rights Reserved
========================================================================



2006\10\18@175027 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
I caught my wife's computer trying to phone home yesterday. It turned
out to be her
GOOGLE TOOLBAR. What does the google toolbar need to be phoning home for?

I am starting to worry about these guys.

--Bob

Russell McMahon wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\10\18@181517 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Bob Axtell wrote:

> I caught my wife's computer trying to phone home yesterday. It turned out
> to be her GOOGLE TOOLBAR. What does the google toolbar need to be
> phoning home for?

I don't know why, but I would expect it to do this. It's a marketing tool,
after all.

>> YouTube comes from a place where it knows about community; how to
>> build community, and how to enable end-users within its community to
>> share videos and common experiences. I wonder how much of this
>> "community experience" will transfer over to the culture within
>> Google.

If you look at Orkut, they do seem to understand a bit about this. Not
really that far out.

Gerhard

2006\10\18@182303 by Genome

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Phoning Home .... maybe its more of a Dialup virus than google...

I use hijaackthis to remove viruses or trojan that loads using internet
explorer...

"Bob Axtell" <spam_OUTengineerTakeThisOuTspamneomailbox.com> wrote in message
news:.....4536A19E.1080208KILLspamspam@spam@neomailbox.com...
{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\10\18@225114 by Dwayne Reid

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face
At 03:50 PM 10/18/2006, Bob Axtell wrote:
>I caught my wife's computer trying to phone home yesterday.

Quick question, Bob.

What technique or tools did you use to detect this?

Another, more general question: what direction should I be looking in
to find tools to help me figure out what traffic is occurring in our
office network?.  Available bandwidth fluctuates dramatically over
the course of the day and I'd like to get an idea of what's happening where.

Simple network: ADSL modem feeding Linksys router feeding 24 port switch.

Thanks for any pointers!

dwayne


--
Dwayne Reid   <dwaynerspamKILLspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 22 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2006)
 .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-
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Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address.
This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited
commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email.

2006\10\19@003234 by Marcel Birthelmer

picon face
Maybe something like ethereal or another traffic sniffer on an average
PC. Just make sure you connect it at the right point in the topology -
in your case, maybe between the modem and the router. If you just put
it behind the router, you won't see anything other than yourself.
- Marcel

On 10/18/06, Dwayne Reid <.....dwaynerKILLspamspam.....planet.eon.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\10\19@004126 by Bob Axtell

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Dwayne Reid wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I install a firewall into each individual computer; I use kerio 4.
Before  the application is allowed to  gain
access to a port,  a  verification  popup is thrown up onto the screen.
You can deny THIS TIME, deny
ALWAYS, allow THIS TIME, or allow ALWAYS. But it also stores the name of
the app that  requests
the port, and  IP numbers used,  in a log file, so you can easily
determine what is going on.

Once a week, I get the log files, and look to see who is trying to break
in, what virus I have picked up, etc.

Kerio is not QUITE free, but almost. I like it.

--Bob

2006\10\19@004348 by Bob Axtell

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Dwayne Reid wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I also have a Linksys router (6 ports), but the firewall completes the job.

--Bob

2006\10\19@020541 by William Chops Westfield

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On Oct 18, 2006, at 3:14 PM, Gerhard Fiedler wrote:

>>> YouTube comes from a place where it knows about community; how to
>>> build community,

> If you look at Orkut, they do seem to understand a bit about this.

They tried, but all the Orkut communities I've tried to follow have
been jokes; their signal to noise rations make Yahoo Groups look like
PICList (piclist has one of the highest S:N ratios I've seen, but I
think that's because we share common tolerance for categorizing as
signal what some people might call noise (and perhaps that's what
really makes a "community."))

BillW

2006\10\19@024723 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
William Chops Westfield wrote:
> On Oct 18, 2006, at 3:14 PM, Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
>
>  
>>>> YouTube comes from a place where it knows about community; how to
>>>> build community,
>>>>        
>
>  
>> If you look at Orkut, they do seem to understand a bit about this.
>>    
>
> They tried, but all the Orkut communities I've tried to follow have
> been jokes; their signal to noise rations make Yahoo Groups look like
> PICList (piclist has one of the highest S:N ratios I've seen, but I
> think that's because we share common tolerance for categorizing as
> signal what some people might call noise (and perhaps that's what
> really makes a "community."))
>
> BillW
>  
PICList reminds me of what happens on "Cheers", a popular Boston
neighborhood bar  (a weekly
TV show). We all know each other, and respect each other's opinion, but
still it becomes rowdy at
times.

--Bob

2006\10\19@053454 by Tamas Rudnai

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Does not mean anything, Bob. Some adwerts/spywares and other malwares
injects its code into other processes (wellcome in the Windows' world), so
you will see that your well known app trying to do something nasty. It is
basically because many firewall product does not check the integrity of a
process but it's name so it will think that your legitimate szoftver is
accessing to the net. Same thing, when a pop-up says your google tollbar do
something it might be the threat, so the author of that threat hopes that
you will click on ALLOW button...

Tamas


On 19/10/06, Bob Axtell <engineerspamspam_OUTneomailbox.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\10\19@080502 by Dave Lag

picon face
Tamas Rudnai wrote:
> Does not mean anything, Bob. Some adwerts/spywares and other malwares
> injects its code into other processes (wellcome in the Windows' world), so
> you will see that your well known app trying to do something nasty. It is
> basically because many firewall product does not check the integrity of a
> process but it's name so it will think that your legitimate szoftver is
> accessing to the net. Same thing, when a pop-up says your google tollbar do
> something it might be the threat, so the author of that threat hopes that
> you will click on ALLOW button...
>
> Tamas

Does the Zonealarm truevector thing prevent this?

2006\10\19@085328 by Gerhard Fiedler

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William ChopsWestfield wrote:

> On Oct 18, 2006, at 3:14 PM, Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
>
>>>> YouTube comes from a place where it knows about community; how to
>>>> build community,
>
>> If you look at Orkut, they do seem to understand a bit about this.
>
> They tried, but all the Orkut communities I've tried to follow have
> been jokes

I'm not judging the content, just the popularity. But that may be a bit
tainted, because it seems that Orkut has taken on better in Brazil than
many other places.

Gerhard

2006\10\19@090709 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
Honestly I have no idea what does 'TrueVector' cover. I found only marketing
blah blah on it so far. But as far as I know the very latest ZoneAlarm can
report code injection. Never tested by myself though.

Tamas


On 19/10/06, Dave Lag <@spam@davescomputerKILLspamspamrogers.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\10\19@101511 by Joe McCauley

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Can't comment on the true vector thing, but I do know that zonealarm will
ask you if you want to allow an app to access the net. You can allow on a
case by case basis or allow always. Say you allow always - the app will
never cause Zonealarm to notify you again. Now say you modify the app (maybe
it is one you have written yourself.) The new app with the same name tries
to access the net & Zonealarm will ask if it is allowed to access the net as
if it was the first time.

Now my zonealarm truevector monitor has started shutting down intermittently
over the last week. I'm wonder if I've got a problem myself, but have found
nothing so far. I'm running McAfee virusscan with the latest dat files & am
connected to the net behind an SMC firewalled router, but you never
know......

Joe

> {Original Message removed}

2006\10\19@111206 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
> Can't comment on the true vector thing, but I do know that zonealarm will
> ask you if you want to allow an app to access the net. You can allow on a
> case by case basis or allow always. Say you allow always - the app will

...

Every client based firewall basically do that. The only concern is that in
Windows everybody can write data and code into a memory belonging to any
process running on the system. You can also have a DLL that you can make to
load by an application. And it is not a hack, it is done by a standard
Windows API...do not ask the purpose, I am not living in Redmond :-)

Now let's say you have the Internet Explorer (as most of the threat use that
process as a 'standard' for this). So your firewall assumes that IE is a
legitimate application, when IE process accesses to the net it is
legitimate, do not have to worry... as you said it will not ask you again
whenever you allow it or not more than once, and most of the intelligent
firewalls have a database which are the well known legit applications and
what are the black ones. Then a threat installed on your system, and patches
your IE _IN MEMORY ONLY_ so that when you would like to check the file on
disk that is fine -- you have the very same IE on your system, firewall
still things that IE is legitimate. That way the threat will not shown by
any of the process lists, and can freely go to the net... There are some
techniques that can reveal this kind of injection, but not all of the
products includes this basically because firewall product makers say it is a
system integrity issue and with the same purpose many AV and AntiSpyware
product do not do the check as well.

Other issue is the rootkit thing some threat contains, where the word
'rootkit' is wrongly but widely used for describing stealth techniques that
hides files, registry entries, processes, services etc from the trained eyes
and from tools. That way it is possible to make those injections even more
undetectable which also makes harder the job of a firewalls/AVs/system
integrity tools etc. As long as it is possible to install and run a program
on the compromised system it is impossible to make 100% solution for that
but can make things harder for the hackers.

Tamas



On 19/10/06, Joe McCauley <KILLspamjoe.mccauleyKILLspamspamtcd.ie> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}

2006\10\19@115133 by Ariel Rocholl

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2006/10/19, Tamas Rudnai RemoveMEtamas.rudnaiTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com:
>
>
> Every client based firewall basically do that. The only concern is that in
> Windows everybody can write data and code into a memory belonging to any
> process running on the system. You can also have a DLL that you can make
> to
> load by an application. And it is not a hack, it is done by a standard
> Windows API...do not ask the purpose, I am not living in Redmond :-)


This feature was provided to be able to interact with other process by
adding features, for instance adding tool buttons in the title bar of every
single application in your Windows, etc. It is also widely used by generic
spell checkers, debuggers, etc. The problem is the more features you give,
the easiest for a virus or malicious code to use for bad things.

--
Ariel Rocholl
Madrid, Spain

2006\10\19@120428 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
It is like let my car wide open to let people install new seats, a new
stereo and some new stuff invented since the car was produced like GPS :-) I
do not want to leave my car like that :-)

Tamas


On 19/10/06, Ariel Rocholl <spamBeGonearochollspamBeGonespamgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\10\19@131024 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> They tried, but all the Orkut communities I've tried to
> follow have been jokes; their signal to noise rations make
> Yahoo Groups look like PICList (piclist has one of the
> highest S:N ratios I've seen, but I think that's because we
> share common tolerance for categorizing as signal what some
> people might call noise (and perhaps that's what really makes
> a "community."))

I want to comment on our communities:

The PICList was not always like that. Spending some time in the archives
will prove that to you. And this was with many of the current members
included. Some credit must be given to the effect of an active "police
force" (admins) and different meeting places (topic tags) in the formation
of any community. And yes, I'm blowing my own horn, but also that of all the
admins. When the police in town are doing a good job, the people feel safe
to express their differences (in the appropriate place) and not get all hot
and bothered about it. When a jerk shows up, someone has to kick him/her out
before they spoil the soup.

youTube has the meeting places in the form of tags, but it lacks an
effective police force.

Two examples:

The obvious one is the posting of copyrighted material on youTube. There is
a lot of it, it should be obvious in most cases to any human who is tasked
with reviewing the new postings which are stepping on someone's copy rights.

The unobvious one is a video response to our favorite grand pop which I was
amazed to find had absolutely nothing to do with his video post. The young
starlet was apparently just using his reputation to get her, rather poor,
video production seen. My time was wasted, I modded it down, but I shouldn't
have had to and my rating reflected her deception more that it did her
material. Any "cop" who screened it should have been able to "disconnect" it
from "geriatric" and leave it to stand or fall on its own. And if you
haven't spent 10 minutes in an old mans parlor of late, I very much
recommend it.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=geriatric1927

It's my guess that many people stop posting on youTube after finding out how
negative a reaction they get. I know one young man dropped out of sight
after his rather thoughtful comments about Paris Hilton were twisted and a
number of very angry responses were posted by the dog carrying set.

If they get it regulated, I may post a few of my little presentations about
war and peace. One of them has, on a good day, started a number of small,
local, anti-war protests. With the right emotional inflection at the end,
you could feel the wave of angst flow over the people and watch many of them
burst into tears. I'm rather proud of that. youTube can't handle it yet. I
would be greeted with any number of angry personal insults and threats from
Bushists, war-hawks, and the like and I don't want to face that, even
through the internet.
http://www.massmind.org/other/peace

On the other hand, the one thing I REALLY like about youTube is that it
encourages, and may create a revival in, "amateur" music. I know of many
people who have produced very enjoyable music without some company slapping
a copyright on it and closing it up. And that is not just startup bands who
are hoping for a company to slap a copyright on their songs either, there
are some who have just done it for the pure joy of it. I listen to our own
Timothy Weber's "Some kind of truth" and "Calling the Maid" on a regular
basis and I really like them. Not professional, just enjoyable.
http://www.lightlink.com/tjweber/Music/Music.html

But that will still not bring back the joy of community that comes from
sitting around in a place (outside of a church) with someone at the piano
and everyone, talented or not, belting out a favorite song. It used to be
that every pub, bar, USO, grange hall, or living room gave us the
opportunity to come together in the same way that churches bring people
together with hymns. Now we have jukeboxes, muzak, and everyone in the room
together in separate worlds. It may sound silly, but how much closer are
people after they have all sung a good song together? Perhaps the
professional music industry is responsible for the religious polarization we
see so much of today?

Even churches are starting to get "professional" with their choirs and
performances. I don't like it. And I guess I'm a hypocrite since I will be
singing that "bomb the world" song Nov the 8th at our local UU "fellowship".
Yes, I had to go join a damn church just to have a place to belong in the
real world, and I don't like churches. But singing along with the hymns
(even the ones I disagree with) feels good. Hopefully the people will sing
along with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmUlVZGUbDU Video featuring Green Peace
http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/lyrics/bombtheworld.html Slightly different
lyrics.

I wish there was an online way to hear everyone sing together. Timothy, I've
enjoyed singing with you, even though you can't hear me. "...some kind of
truth."

---
James.

2006\10\19@142556 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
James Newtons Massmind wrote:

> But that will still not bring back the joy of community that comes from
> sitting around in a place (outside of a church) with someone at the
> piano and everyone, talented or not, belting out a favorite song. It
> used to be that every pub, bar, USO, grange hall, or living room gave us
> the opportunity to come together in the same way that churches bring
> people together with hymns. Now we have jukeboxes, muzak, and everyone
> in the room together in separate worlds. It may sound silly, but how
> much closer are people after they have all sung a good song together?
> Perhaps the professional music industry is responsible for the religious
> polarization we see so much of today?

Not only religious polarization. IMO the "religious" part of it is more or
less arbitrary. It could be anything else. Some religions just serve the
purpose well because they can easily be used for absolutist arguments --
helpful to create polarization.

I think you definitely have a point. And I think it's possibly not
completely arbitrary that Brazil has both never (recent centuries) started
a war and a very active musical life -- not only the professionals, but the
general public. There is no other place that I know where so many people
know so many songs (and not only know, they do sing them whenever there's
an opportunity).

Gerhard

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