Post by thread:[OT] Engineer's Creed

I copied Dennis Floyd's "Engineers Creed" to the PICList and after a few iterations this is something like how it ended up - Creed of the Engineer: Design with Super Computer Measure with micrometer Mark with chalk Cut with axe Hammer to fit Paint to match Fine tune with software Russell McMahon _____________________________ - http://www.easttimor.com Updated regularly: 100,000 refugees STILL in West Timor face starvation! - http://www.sudan.com And you think Kosovo and Chechnya are bad! What can one man* do? Help the hungry at no cost to yourself! at http://www.thehungersite.com/ (* - or woman, child or internet enabled intelligent entity :-)) -----Original Message----- From: Floyd, Dennis W <spam_OUTdwfloydTakeThisOuTSANDIA.GOV> To: .....AROCKETKILLspam@spam@ITC.UCI.EDU <AROCKETKILLspamITC.UCI.EDU> Date: Friday, 14 April 2000 06:18 Subject: [AR] Measurement info >NB: Creed of the Engineer: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut >with axe. -- Bumper sticker >

> I copied Dennis Floyd's "Engineers Creed" to the PICList and after a few > iterations this is something like how it ended up - > > Creed of the Engineer: > > Design with Super Computer > Measure with micrometer > Mark with chalk > Cut with axe > Hammer to fit > Paint to match > Fine tune with software Render useless with WinXX Steve. ====================================================== Steve Baldwin Electronic Product Design TLA Microsystems Ltd Microcontroller Specialists PO Box 15-680, New Lynn http://www.tla.co.nz Auckland, New Zealand ph +64 9 820-2221 email: .....stevebKILLspam.....tla.co.nz fax +64 9 820-1929 ======================================================

Russ, you forgot the parts dealing with the Full Moon, migration of crabs, sex, lies, and video tapes. Actually, that falls under Marketing. True Story: When I was working for Datricon designing 6809-based STD Bus embedded controllers, Marketing actually took prototype boards, stuffed them in a box, added some wire bundles, set the box on top of the elevator, took a picture, and made a wonderful full-color brochure about our hot new product controlling an elevator. Never mind that it didn't exist yet... - Tom At 09:17 PM 4/16/00 +1200, Russell McMahon wrote: {Quote hidden}>I copied Dennis Floyd's "Engineers Creed" to the PICList and after a few >iterations this is something like how it ended up - > >Creed of the Engineer: > >Design with Super Computer >Measure with micrometer >Mark with chalk >Cut with axe >Hammer to fit >Paint to match >Fine tune with software > > Russell McMahon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tom Handley New Age Communications Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

At 09:17 PM 4/16/00 +1200, you wrote: >I copied Dennis Floyd's "Engineers Creed" to the PICList and after a few >iterations this is something like how it ended up - > >Creed of the Engineer: > >Design with Super Computer >Measure with micrometer >Mark with chalk >Cut with axe >Hammer to fit >Paint to match >Fine tune with software > > Russell McMahon Nicely integrated, testing phase still needed. Tested by monkeys (???)

----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Michaels <EraseMEoricomspam_OUTTakeThisOuTLYNX.SNI.NET> To: <PICLISTspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [OT] Engineer's Creed {Quote hidden}> At 09:17 PM 4/16/00 +1200, you wrote: > >I copied Dennis Floyd's "Engineers Creed" to the PICList and after a few > >iterations this is something like how it ended up - > > > >Creed of the Engineer: > > > >Design with Super Computer > >Measure with micrometer > >Mark with chalk > >Cut with axe > >Hammer to fit > >Paint to match > >Fine tune with software > > tested by a tech broken by a Phd Ruined by bad marketing Stolen/bought by microsoft shelved from lack of interest

Rob wrote: {Quote hidden}> >> At 09:17 PM 4/16/00 +1200, you wrote: >> >I copied Dennis Floyd's "Engineers Creed" to the PICList and after a few >> >iterations this is something like how it ended up - >> > >> >Creed of the Engineer: >> > >> >Design with Super Computer >> >Measure with micrometer >> >Mark with chalk >> >Cut with axe >> >Hammer to fit >> >Paint to match >> >Fine tune with software >> > > >tested by a tech >broken by a Phd >Ruined by bad marketing >Stolen/bought by microsoft >shelved from lack of interest > Certified by committee.

Tom Wrote > Russ, you forgot the parts dealing with the Full Moon, migration of > crabs, sex, lies, and video tapes. Actually, that falls under Marketing. > True Story: > > When I was working for Datricon designing 6809-based STD Bus embedded > controllers, Marketing actually took prototype boards, stuffed them in a > box, added some wire bundles, set the box on top of the elevator, took a > picture, and made a wonderful full-color brochure about our hot new > product controlling an elevator. Never mind that it didn't exist yet... > > - Tom > Been there... had that inflicted on me. I was at the concept development phase of a multipoint alarm monitoring system. The CEO asked me "Is it going to work" I foolishly said "yes"....... 2 days latter I found I had 3 weeks to deliver 30 finished units complete with PC display graphics of system status. Needless to say things turned to custard, but I delivered 2 months later after having worked night and day and endured endless grilling from the management. I quit not long after that. I recall "Scotty from Star Trek" stated he gained a good reputation as an engineer by quoting that the work would take twice as long as he really thought, and then 'apparently' delivered in half the time. _____________________________ Lance Allen Technical Officer Uni of Auckland Psych Dept New Zealand http://www.psych.auckland.ac.nz _____________________________

<x-flowed>Where's the technican to make the D*** thing work? (We'll bring our own bondo!) At 09:17 PM 4/16/00 +1200, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>I copied Dennis Floyd's "Engineers Creed" to the PICList and after a few >iterations this is something like how it ended up - > >Creed of the Engineer: > >Design with Super Computer >Measure with micrometer >Mark with chalk >Cut with axe >Hammer to fit >Paint to match >Fine tune with software > > > > > Russell McMahon >_____________________________ > >- http://www.easttimor.com > Updated regularly: > 100,000 refugees STILL in West Timor face starvation! > >- http://www.sudan.com > And you think Kosovo and Chechnya are bad! > >What can one man* do? >Help the hungry at no cost to yourself! >at http://www.thehungersite.com/ > >(* - or woman, child or internet enabled intelligent entity :-)) > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Floyd, Dennis W <@spam@dwfloydKILLspamSANDIA.GOV> >To: KILLspamAROCKETKILLspamITC.UCI.EDU <RemoveMEAROCKETTakeThisOuTITC.UCI.EDU> >Date: Friday, 14 April 2000 06:18 >Subject: [AR] Measurement info > > > >NB: Creed of the Engineer: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut > >with axe. -- Bumper sticker > > 'Grif' N7IVS </x-flowed>

At 10:19 AM 4/16/2000 -0600, you wrote: >At 09:17 PM 4/16/00 +1200, you wrote: >>I copied Dennis Floyd's "Engineers Creed" to the PICList and after a few >>iterations this is something like how it ended up - >> >>Creed of the Engineer: >> >>Design with Super Computer >>Measure with micrometer >>Mark with chalk >>Cut with axe >>Hammer to fit >>Paint to match >>Fine tune with software Ship via UPS Remove the BALONEY from my email address. ----------------------------------------------------- Matthew Fries Minneapolis, MN USA spamBeGonefreezespamBeGonebaloneyvisi.com "Quit eating all my *STUFF*!" - The Tick

{Quote hidden}> -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Fries [SMTP:TakeThisOuTfreezeEraseMEspam_OUTVISI.COM] > Sent: Monday, 17 April 2000 15:07 > To: RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [OT] Engineer's Creed > > At 10:19 AM 4/16/2000 -0600, you wrote: > >At 09:17 PM 4/16/00 +1200, you wrote: > >>I copied Dennis Floyd's "Engineers Creed" to the PICList and after a few > >>iterations this is something like how it ended up - > >> > >>Creed of the Engineer: > >> > >>Design with Super Computer > >>Measure with micrometer > >>Mark with chalk > >>Cut with axe > >>Hammer to fit > >>Paint to match > >>Fine tune with software > > Ship via UPS > Also forgot,:- Fold with press Drive in rust bucket Shop at K-Mart Dennis

I've started a beginning engineers checklist at http://techref.massmind.org/begin and added this to it. I'd love to hear some other sage advice that is general for survival in this business. --- James Newton jamesnewtonEraseME.....geocities.com 1-619-652-0593 http://techref.massmind.org NEW! FINALLY A REAL NAME! Members can add private/public comments/pages ($0 TANSTAAFL web hosting) {Original Message removed}

James Newton wrote: > >I've started a beginning engineers checklist at >http://techref.massmind.org/begin >and added this to it. I'd love to hear some other sage advice that is >general for survival in this business. > Speaking of real [albeit non-engineering] classics, check out the recent Dilbert column on how a pointy-haired "clueless" guy deals with unwanted phonecalls. Brilliant. Starts out: "Again? That thing rang last week, too" .... ============= Back to "true" life drama [and deserved(??) karma]: Several years ago, while working in aerospace, I was talking with my manager/boss in the hall one day, when he looked at his watch and said, "Oops, I have to go to a meeting now. Maybe you should come along too". [note - I had no previous knowledge of this meeting]. Well, the meeting was with the "customer", included 20-30 people, me being the least senior, and included our division manager and several air force colonels. The "major theme" of the meeting, as it turned out, concerned problems with one of the subsystems I was test engineer on at the time. Among other things they wanted to hear a detailed history of the problem going back several years, and all the steps we had taken along the way to correct it. Well, needless to say, ..... Later, my [pointy-haired] boss said, "You did a pretty bad job in there today. You should always be prepared for this kind of thing, ....". P.S. After that date, I was no longer on the A-List in the department. P.P.S. Eventually Mr. Pointy-Hairs was canned, after almost getting himself shot, trying to barge past a marine guard at the launch pad. Just one of many, - Dan Michaels

So.. I translated that to: "Always document everything you do (why did you always see engineers and scientists with a log book?) and be ready to extract a complete history of actions at a moments notice. I don't care how sharp you are, at some point, while trying to solve a complex problem, you will realize that you don't remember exactly what you already tried... which means that you are duplicating effort, running in circles, and doomed. Also, when it really drops in the bucket, management WILL try to make you a scapegoat and being able to tell the customer exactly what you did may save your job (or get you a better manager or even a new job)." --- James Newton EraseMEjamesnewtongeocities.com 1-619-652-0593 http://techref.massmind.org NEW! FINALLY A REAL NAME! Members can add private/public comments/pages ($0 TANSTAAFL web hosting) {Original Message removed}

On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:24:03 +1200 Lance Allen <RemoveMEl.allenEraseMEEraseMEAUCKLAND.AC.NZ> writes: {Quote hidden}> Tom Wrote > > > Russ, you forgot the parts dealing with the Full Moon, > migration of > > crabs, sex, lies, and video tapes. Actually, that falls under > Marketing. > > True Story: > > > > When I was working for Datricon designing 6809-based STD Bus > embedded > > controllers, Marketing actually took prototype boards, stuffed > them in a > > box, added some wire bundles, set the box on top of the elevator, > took a > > picture, and made a wonderful full-color brochure about our hot > new > > product controlling an elevator. Never mind that it didn't exist > yet... > > > > - Tom > > > Hmmm... I used a Datricon 6800 STD board in a transmitter control system for broadcasters. I later designed my own 6802 board, but I think one of the original systems is still an AM/FM station there... Harold FCC Rules Online at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules Lighting control for theatre and television at http://www.dovesystems.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: dl.http://www.juno.com/get/tagj.

James Newton wrote: >So.. I translated that to: >"Always document everything you do (why did you always see engineers and >scientists with a log book?) and be ready to extract a complete history of >actions at a moments notice. I don't care how sharp you are, at some point, >while trying to solve a complex problem, you will realize that you don't >remember exactly what you already tried... which means that you are >duplicating effort, running in circles, and doomed. Also, when it really >drops in the bucket, management WILL try to make you a scapegoat and being >able to tell the customer exactly what you did may save your job (or get you >a better manager or even a new job)." > [actually, had I "known" there was a meeting, and had I known what it was about, and had I known I would be the primary speaker, I could have brought the log book]. Besides abstracting the lessons, you might also have the original parables available. Might try adding some humor to the abstractions, too. Don't want to scare the new engineers too much. Engineering can be fun, if you don't take the bosses too seriously. Course, it took a few years to learn this one. ============== Maybe call your page "Engineering Parables". You might add pertinent titles - mine should have been called: "As the Boy Scouts say - Be Prepared". And you might try categorizing them. Dogbert made Dilbert select his own "slot" a couple weeks ago. As I recall, list was: empty suit, sadist, sycophant, factoid, prima donna, whiner. [Dilbert chose empty suit]. I won't tell you my own personal selection, but maybe later I'll tell you "The Story of the Sycophant and the Prima Donna". [or "How to Make Smoke Come Out of the Ears of a Sycophant"]. best regards, - DanM.

> > >>Creed of the Engineer: > > >> > > >>Design with Super Computer > > >>Measure with micrometer > > >>Mark with chalk > > >>Cut with axe > > >>Hammer to fit > > >>Paint to match > > >>Fine tune with software > > > > Ship via UPS > > > Also forgot,:- > Fold with press > Drive in rust bucket > Shop at K-Mart > > To reiterate another truth posted a while ago.. Has oscilloscope at home worth more than his car. _____________________________ Lance Allen Technical Officer Uni of Auckland Psych Dept New Zealand http://www.psych.auckland.ac.nz _____________________________

At 07:35 AM 4/17/00 -0700, James Newton wrote: >I've started a beginning engineers checklist at >http://techref.massmind.org/begin >and added this to it. I'd love to hear some other sage advice that is >general for survival in this business. Here's one I heard not too long ago : 1: It can be built well. 2: It can be built quickly. 3: It can be built cheaply. Pick two of these three and start. Erik Reikes Senior Software Engineer Xsilogy, Inc. RemoveMEereikesspam_OUTKILLspamxsilogy.com ph : (858) 535-5113 fax : (858) 535-5163 cell : (858) 663-1206

On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:45:04 -0700 Erik Reikes <RemoveMEereikesTakeThisOuTspamXSILOGY.COM> writes: > > Here's one I heard not too long ago : > > 1: It can be built well. > 2: It can be built quickly. > 3: It can be built cheaply. > > Pick two of these three and start. > How about "The ideal design has zero parts." Harold ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: dl.http://www.juno.com/get/tagj.

It can be built ! :-) Russell McMahon _____________________________ - http://www.easttimor.com Updated regularly: 100,000 refugees STILL in West Timor face starvation! - http://www.sudan.com And you think Kosovo and Chechnya are bad! What can one man* do? Help the hungry at no cost to yourself! at http://www.thehungersite.com/ (* - or woman, child or internet enabled intelligent entity :-)) {Original Message removed}

From: Erik Reikes > Here's one I heard not too long ago : > > 1: It can be built well. > 2: It can be built quickly. > 3: It can be built cheaply. > > Pick two of these three and start. Eggsactly what a NASA PR-type person said when asked to comment on the report (released at the end of last week) into the two failed Mars missions. If she was acting as an official spokeswoman, and appeared to be, then it seems to be accepted at NASA that resources are being spread too thinly, at least for those Mars missions. She did specifically say that equipment was made too cheaply and corners were cut to save time (what's the rush ? where's Mars going ?). Surprisingly frank hands-up admissions I thought.

Harold M Hallikainen <EraseMEharoldhallikainenspamspamBeGoneJUNO.COM> 18/04/2000 05:23 Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> To: PICLISTSTOPspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU cc: (bcc: Dan Lloyd/GBPTD/ABB) Subject: Re: [OT] Engineer's Creed Security Level:? Internal On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:45:04 -0700 Erik Reikes <spamBeGoneereikesSTOPspamEraseMEXSILOGY.COM> writes: {Quote hidden}> > Here's one I heard not too long ago : > > 1: It can be built well. > 2: It can be built quickly. > 3: It can be built cheaply. > > Pick two of these three and start. > How about "The ideal design has zero parts." Harold * Or that old chestnut, "Software is free" Dan ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: dl.http://www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Harold, facinating! We were giving Prolog pretty good competition at the time. The first CPU products were 6800 and 6801-based. The 6809 version became very popular. I was designing energy management systems using their products and that's how I ended up working for them. That and the fact that I knew the founders ;-) - Tom At 11:06 AM 4/17/00 -0700, Harold M Hallikainen wrote: {Quote hidden}>> I Wrote >> > When I was working for Datricon designing 6809-based STD Bus >> embedded >> > controllers, Marketing actually took prototype boards, stuffed >> them in a >> > box, added some wire bundles, set the box on top of the elevator, >> took a >> > picture, and made a wonderful full-color brochure about our hot >> new >> > product controlling an elevator. Never mind that it didn't exist >> yet... >> > >> > - Tom >> > > Hmmm... I used a Datricon 6800 STD board in a transmitter control system >for broadcasters. I later designed my own 6802 board, but I think one of >the original systems is still an AM/FM station there... > >Harold ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tom Handley New Age Communications Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

...and NO software Harold M Hallikainen <KILLspamharoldhallikainenspamBeGoneJUNO.COM> on 04/18/2000 12:23:31 AM Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <EraseMEPICLISTEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU> To: @spam@PICLIST@spam@spam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU cc: (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES) Subject: Re: [OT] Engineer's Creed On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:45:04 -0700 Erik Reikes <spamBeGoneereikesKILLspamXSILOGY.COM> writes: {Quote hidden}> > Here's one I heard not too long ago : > > 1: It can be built well. > 2: It can be built quickly. > 3: It can be built cheaply. > > Pick two of these three and start. > How about "The ideal design has zero parts." Harold ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: dl.http://www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Found on the web: "An engineer is someone who can build for a dollar what any damn fool can build for ten." - Robert A. Hienlein -- Rich On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Daniel C. Christadoss wrote: {Quote hidden}> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 06:46:18 EDT > From: Daniel C. Christadoss <.....Dancrisscospam_OUTAOL.COM> > Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list <TakeThisOuTPICLIST.....TakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> > To: TakeThisOuTPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [OT] Engineer's Creed > > I once read a book about an engineer a long time ago and do not remember > the name of the book. It made very interesting reading. > > It had a very nice quote about an engineer > > " An engineer is someone who can build for a dollar what a fool can build > for twenty " > > Can someone tell me the name of this book and the author > > Regards > > Dan >

Dan Michaels wrote: {Quote hidden}> Rob wrote: > > > >> >I copied Dennis Floyd's "Engineers Creed" to the PICList and after a few > >> >iterations this is something like how it ended up - > >> > > >> >Creed of the Engineer: > >> > > >> >Design with Super Computer > >> >Measure with micrometer > >> >Mark with chalk > >> >Cut with axe > >> >Hammer to fit > >> >Paint to match > >> >Fine tune with software > >> > > > > >tested by a tech > >broken by a Phd > >Ruined by bad marketing > >Stolen/bought by microsoft > >shelved from lack of interest > > > > Certified by committee. I'll second that.

If It was Robert Heinlein who said that, the book may have been "The door into Summer". It is one of my favorites because of all the great advances in technology that he envisioned for the future (the future being the 1970's). Some of the cool things were... a mechanical drafting board (we use CAD now). a general purpose robot that could remember complex tasks (like washing dishes) and also adapt (slightly) analog memory devices (I think they were called Thorsen tubes) On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 .....rleggittRemoveMEconcentric.net wrote: {Quote hidden}> Found on the web: > > "An engineer is someone who can build for a dollar what any damn fool can > build for ten." - Robert A. Hienlein > > -- Rich > > On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Daniel C. Christadoss wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 06:46:18 EDT > > From: Daniel C. Christadoss <RemoveMEDancrisscospamBeGoneAOL.COM> > > Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list <spamBeGonePICLIST@spam@spam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> > > To: TakeThisOuTPICLISTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU > > Subject: Re: [OT] Engineer's Creed > > > > I once read a book about an engineer a long time ago and do not remember > > the name of the book. It made very interesting reading. > > > > It had a very nice quote about an engineer > > > > " An engineer is someone who can build for a dollar what a fool can build > > for twenty " > > > > Can someone tell me the name of this book and the author > > > > Regards > > > > Dan > > >

Jinx wrote: > > > > Pick two of these three and start. > > Eggsactly what a NASA PR-type person said when asked to comment > on the report (released at the end of last week) into the two failed Mars > missions. > ... (what's the rush ? where's Mars going ?) The rush isn't because MARS is moving. The rush is to finish the stupid project before it relocates again and you have to start over with new people; or before congress readjusts the budget and requires yet another replan that invalidates all of the analysis you've done for the past year. Have a great day, Dan