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'[OT] 6-pin MCU costs just 43 cents'
2006\06\25@124755 by Gökhan SEVER

picon face
*8-bit device has up to 2 Kbytes of flash and 10-MHz internal bus speed*

Using a new RS08 core, the MC9RS08KA 8-bit microcontroller is one of the
lowest-priced processors available and features 1 or 2 Kbytes of flash and
63 bytes of RAM in a tiny 3 mm2 6-pin package. The controller runs up to 10
MHz at 1.8 V and has an integrated ±2% clock source.

Features include an 8-bit modulo timer with prescaler, a comparator with
full rail-to-rail supply operation that can run in stop mode, a real-time
interrupt trigger with 3-bit prescaler, and a three- or five-channel
keyboard interrupt. Other features include low-voltage detect with reset,
stop, or wakeup, as well as a background debugging system.

The 6-pin DFN- or 8-pin NB-SOIC-packaged IC operates from a 1.8 to
5.5-Vsupply. CodeWarrior design tools and a demo board are available.
($0.43 to
$0.61 ea/1,000—available now.)
*Freescale Semiconductor*
*Austin, TX*
*Technical Help Line  800-521-6274*
*http://www.freescale.com

Source:*
www.electronicproducts.com/ShowPage.asp?SECTION=3700&PRIMID=&FileName=xhljh03.aug2006.html
**

2006\06\26@060048 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Gökhan SEVER wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Austin, TX?

That sure looks like Motorola, to me...

No, thanks.

--Bob

2006\06\26@074344 by Philip Pemberton

face picon face
Bob Axtell wrote:
> Gökhan SEVER wrote:
>> *Freescale Semiconductor*
>> *Austin, TX*
>> *Technical Help Line  800-521-6274*
>> *http://www.freescale.com
>>
>> Source:*
>> www.electronicproducts.com/ShowPage.asp?SECTION=3700&PRIMID=&FileName=xhljh03.aug2006.html
>> **
>>  
> Austin, TX?
>
> That sure looks like Motorola, to me...
>
> No, thanks.

That's because it is Motorola, or at least used to be. Motorola spun off their
semiconductor division as two companies - ON Semiconductor (logic, linear and
power devices) and Freescale Semiconductor (microcontrollers and microprocessors).

--
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2006\06\26@095545 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
Austin, TX?

That sure looks like Motorola, to me...

No - it's Freescale ;-)


       RM


As in Infineon/Avago/CompaqWangDEC/...


2006\06\26@113138 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 6/26/06, Russell McMahon <.....apptechKILLspamspam@spam@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> Austin, TX?
>
> That sure looks like Motorola, to me...
>
> No - it's Freescale ;-)

Why Freescale is not ok ? They're making a lot of good RF stuff.

Vasile

2006\06\26@165702 by PicDude

flavicon
face
On Monday 26 June 2006 10:31, Vasile Surducan wrote:
> > No - it's Freescale ;-)
>
> Why Freescale is not ok ? They're making a lot of good RF stuff.
>
> Vasile


I'm questioning this also, but have one recent concern over Freescale.  I use
their products (some sensors) regularly and in the past few months, other
huge companies in the same industry sector have started buying up those
sensors, leading to shortages and excessive lead times.  A few blaring phone
calls to freescale got me some action, as they located a number of the parts
for me and I grabbed them.  But I'm still not getting the parts.

Now, this is not Freescale's fault that there is a sudden demand for these
parts, but I then got a marketing/spam email from a new person at freescale
mentioning how he'd like to partner with us and left his personal email and
mobile phone number.  The phone number was invalid.  And I am still waiting
on a response from an email I sent him.

Cheers,
-Neil.



2006\06\27@035259 by Luis.Moreira

picon face
Hi Guys,
I have been listening to people running down Freescale for a long time and I just can not see it like you do.
-In terms of products they are just brilliant, I love their uC.
-In terms of tools they are offering Codewarrior with 32K limit for C but no -limit for assembler. This is a very powerful tool...
-There are free programmers and debuggers available on there own datasheets or in forums.
-The evaluation tools are cheap; I got two boards for £70, and as a bonus it would be very easy to modify them to program another uC on the range.
-Samples are available to everybody.
-their customer support is very good. I had a problem with the clock on the first micro I used (My own fault) I email them to ask how to solve it, the guy on the other side understood differently what I wrote, and in the face of it gave me the wrong advice. I went ballistic when I found out, and when they send me the customer satisfaction survey I just let it rip. Three hours later I received an email from the engineer that gave me the advice apologizing for the error. This was not a corporate apology, with a lot of bullshit, this was a personal apology. Thinking about it now I did not express the problem properly and I took him in the wrong direction hence the wrong advice. Later I had problems with the programmer I built (my fault again) and they were great.
- I can not comment two much on parts availability as I do not do mass production, mostly my boards are prototypes and 10's of, but I never had problems. I heard they had problems with their XGate parts, damaged silicon at production...
I have to confess that since I got into Freescale I have not used PIC that much, as I can always find in MY OPINION, a better solution on the HC8 or HC12 family range. I have to stress this is my opinion and have to admit I have put much more effort into learning how to use Codewarrior and HC8 and HCS12, so for me it's easier to look at a problem and go strait to them. Other people will have other requirements so as we say in the UK, its horses for courses.
I did heard about the horror stories of the past, and the only thing I can say is that Freescale seems to have learned a bit with them, I also think they have a new philosophy(they seem to be going for Microchip :)), and this is great for us, as they will bend backwards to get more market share.
And no, I do not work for Freescale or any of company of the group and I have no shares on Metrowerks :)
Best regards
               Luis


p.s- please be gentle with me... :)  


   







{Original Message removed}

2006\06\27@131239 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Luis Moreira wrote:
> Hi Guys,
> I have been listening to people running down Freescale for a long time and I just can not see it like you do.
> -In terms of products they are just brilliant, I love their uC.
> -In terms of tools they are offering Codewarrior with 32K limit for C but no -limit for assembler. This is a very powerful tool...
> -There are free programmers and debuggers available on there own datasheets or in forums.
> -The evaluation tools are cheap; I got two boards for £70, and as a bonus it would be very easy to modify them to program another uC on the range.
> -Samples are available to everybody.
> -their customer support is very good. I had a problem with the clock on the first micro I used (My own fault) I email them to ask how to solve it, the guy on the other side understood differently what I wrote, and in the face of it gave me the wrong advice. I went ballistic when I found out, and when they send me the customer satisfaction survey I just let it rip. Three hours later I received an email from the engineer that gave me the advice apologizing for the error. This was not a corporate apology, with a lot of bullshit, this was a personal apology. Thinking about it now I did not express the problem properly and I took him in the wrong direction hence the wrong advice. Later I had problems with the programmer I built (my fault again) and they were great.
> - I can not comment two much on parts availability as I do not do mass production, mostly my boards are prototypes and 10's of, but I never had problems. I heard they had problems with their XGate parts, damaged silicon at production...
> I have to confess that since I got into Freescale I have not used PIC that much, as I can always find in MY OPINION, a better solution on the HC8 or HC12 family range. I have to stress this is my opinion and have to admit I have put much more effort into learning how to use Codewarrior and HC8 and HCS12, so for me it's easier to look at a problem and go strait to them. Other people will have other requirements so as we say in the UK, its horses for courses.
> I did heard about the horror stories of the past, and the only thing I can say is that Freescale seems to have learned a bit with them, I also think they have a new philosophy(they seem to be going for Microchip :)), and this is great for us, as they will bend backwards to get more market share.
> And no, I do not work for Freescale or any of company of the group and I have no shares on Metrowerks :)
> Best regards
>                Luis
>
>
> p.s- please be gentle with me... :)  
>  
Its OK, Luis, listen up. It wasn't a horror story... horror stories just
scare you for 90 minutes then you get to drive home. This was a
DISASTER, and I never recovered
from it.

Its just that many of us were treated very badly in the early 90s when
Motorola dropped everything to build cellphone chips. I had to redesign
15 products because Motorola would NOT honor its committment to sell
chips. Its that simple. I lost a large fortune having to redesign these
products into MicroChip and out of  Motorola HC05.

My accountant at the time said I lost about $250,000. The reason is that
when I design a product, it is MY job to decide what components to use.
I'd been assured that Motorola would deliver product. When they did not,
_I_ had to eat the costs of the redesign. The client shouldn't pay
again, after all, _I_ decided what processor to use, right? With that
kinda money, I could have afforded a few more wives...

I can't forget something like that. I redesigned all 15 projects into
MicroChip because a Microchip VP assured me that this would not happen
with MicroChip parts. And it hasn't. I have never, EVER, been left  high
and dry by MicroChip, not even once. And  there are 1000's of other
engineers that suffered the same thing. Why else would MicroChip go from
a  garage operation to being the world's leading supplier of uPs in 12
years?

Am I loyal to MicroChip? You bet.  They'd have to really fall on their
face for me to  drop 'em. Are they perfect? heck, no, sometimes they
seem to be made of nothing
but left turns... but they've always come across for me, and they get my
business. Its that simple.  Isn't simple wonderful?

Now, Freescale is probably working feverishly to try to win customers
back, because if they DON'T they are done. Toast. Finito. I have an open
mind, but I am VERY skeptical.

--Bob

2006\06\27@170358 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face

On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 08:52 +0100, Luis Moreira wrote:
> Hi Guys,
> I have been listening to people running down Freescale for a long time and I just can not see it like you do.
> -In terms of products they are just brilliant, I love their uC.
> -In terms of tools they are offering Codewarrior with 32K limit for C but no -limit for assembler. This is a very powerful tool...
> -There are free programmers and debuggers available on there own datasheets or in forums.
> -The evaluation tools are cheap; I got two boards for £70, and as a bonus it would be very easy to modify them to program another uC on the range.
> -Samples are available to everybody.
> -their customer support is very good. I had a problem with the clock on the first micro I used (My own fault) I email them to ask how to solve it, the guy on the other side understood differently what I wrote, and in the face of it gave me the wrong advice. I went ballistic when I found out, and when they send me the customer satisfaction survey I just let it rip. Three hours later I received an email from the engineer that gave me the advice apologizing for the error. This was not a corporate apology, with a lot of bullshit, this was a personal apology. Thinking about it now I did not express the problem properly and I took him in the wrong direction hence the wrong advice. Later I had problems with the programmer I built (my fault again) and they were great.
> - I can not comment two much on parts availability as I do not do mass production, mostly my boards are prototypes and 10's of, but I never had problems. I heard they had problems with their XGate parts, damaged silicon at production...
> I have to confess that since I got into Freescale I have not used PIC that much, as I can always find in MY OPINION, a better solution on the HC8 or HC12 family range. I have to stress this is my opinion and have to admit I have put much more effort into learning how to use Codewarrior and HC8 and HCS12, so for me it's easier to look at a problem and go strait to them. Other people will have other requirements so as we say in the UK, its horses for courses.
> I did heard about the horror stories of the past, and the only thing I can say is that Freescale seems to have learned a bit with them, I also think they have a new philosophy(they seem to be going for Microchip :)), and this is great for us, as they will bend backwards to get more market share.
> And no, I do not work for Freescale or any of company of the group and I have no shares on Metrowerks :)
> Best regards

There's a consumer "issues" show that runs regularly where I live called
Marketplace.

They recently did an episode on the state of customer service. One of
the parts of the episode that resonated most with me is the kind of
consumers that companies seem to be creating. It seems that unlike most
"baby boomers", younger consumers see the companies they buy from as
enemies. We can be very demanding, very vocal and even vengeful. When
the person was describing these newer types of consumers I was basically
hearing an exact description of myself as a consumer, and almost all of
my friends as consumers.

http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/services/underdogs/index.html

My point is the philosophy of many consumers (young and old) these days
is "screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice, shame on me".
Basically, companies get one chance. If they mess up badly once, the
consumer will never go back. This isn't a hard and fast rule, but I do
see most of the people I work with following this type of idea.

I personally have cut all associations with certain companies due to
their "customer service", and have never gone back. It doesn't matter
how enticing they make their "deals", I have an instinct out of spite to
never go back.

For many, Motorola is one of these companies. For me personally they
never technically screwed me, but they sure were as unhelpful as
possible in getting me going with their parts when I was in school. The
way they treated me has permanently crossed them off my list. Freescale
is a new name, and supposedly a new company, but that bad taste of
Motorola in my mouth remains, and makes it very hard for me personally
to even look at their parts.

It's sad that this is the way things have developed, but the companies
have only themselves to blame. Will things ever change? I suppose we
will see. MChip, so far, has been nearly flawless, which is why I think
they are in the position they are in. They HAVE made their mistakes
(everyone does), but in my experience their CS (and attitude) has been
on average very good, and that makes me keep coming back.

TTYL

2006\06\28@035338 by Luis.Moreira

picon face
Hi Bob & Herbert,
Point taken, when you guys had your problems I was 10 years old and about 6 years from discovering the PIC, and perhaps that is why I see it differently.
Now my problem is that I only started having a look and using Freescale micros about two years ago. Luckily I have working with me a 63 year old engineer that went through all this, but still recognises how good the Freescale products are, and he kind of push me forward to have a look at it. What you all said about Motorola really influences me too, and when things seemed to go wrong I always had that in the back of my mind. If it wasn't for him I would have drop it many months back.
If I had drop it I would definitely had miss out.
This also applies to Altera which now is offering great products, but in the past has had very serious problems.
What I am trying to say is that what you guys say influences a lot of people in this list. I do appreciate you sharing your experiences with us, and now after you explained why you dismiss Freescale every time, I can better make and educated decision about them. Just dismissing it is not fair, not for Freescale because they can take care of them self's, but to all off us.
Best regards
               Luis

P.S.- Sometimes I have a big problem to put in words what I really want to say so I hope I expressed it correctly, and I am sorry you lost that much just because of a stupid management decision from Motorola .    
     




{Original Message removed}

2006\06\28@043044 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Jun 28, 2006, at 12:53 AM, Luis Moreira wrote:

> This also applies to Altera which now is offering great
> products, but in the past has had very serious problems.

For that matter, Atmel had some serious availability issues
with their AVRs for quite some time.  IIRC they bought a few
extra Fab lines, ramped up production, and solved that problem
just in time for the high-tech market to collapse :-(  But
I haven't heard of it being a problem recently.  (They still
have vaporware issues, it looks like, and they're getting
flak over replacing products with "near equivalents" without
maintaining production of the older parts.  As far as I've
seen, NO ONE does that as well as microchip.)

BillW

2006\06\28@045242 by Ling SM

picon face
>..Just dismissing it is not fair, not for Freescale because they
> can take care of them self's, but to all off us.

Reminding others and keep reminding others of what and who
Freescale/Motorola were, I think is doing a big favor for all uP
developers - freescale users or not.

First it caps the growth of Freescale if there is any so they would not
run into supply problem like before.

Most importantly, it give a strong signal to all the uP producers that
protecting and helping to protect the investments made by the developers
on their chips should be one of their important objectives.  Rebranding
does not help.

On the other hand, accepting the ditching exercise on developer is
directly or indirectly encouraging Freescale and all other uP producers
to ditch their developers on the very first instant their next chip
passes their beta test.

Ling SM

2006\06\28@050632 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Jun 28, 2006, at 1:49 AM, Ling SM wrote:
>
> Reminding others and keep reminding others of what and who
> Freescale/Motorola were, I think is doing a big favor for all uP
> developers - freescale users or not.
>
On the other hand, I think we were always rather happy with
the support and directions taken in motorola's higher end
micros; 68k and PPC based.  They were one one of the few
companies doing (essentially) 32bit microcontrollers back
in the days of the 68302 and 68331 and such.  Also one of
the few to grasp the market for things like the 68EC030,
or the QUICC and powerQUICC (comm oriented) chips.

So... YMMV.

BillW

2006\06\28@060031 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Now, Freescale is probably working feverishly to try to
>win customers back, because if they DON'T they are done.
>Toast. Finito. I have an open mind, but I am VERY skeptical.

Me too - sceptical that is.

I just tried to order a couple of samples of MC34940 E-field sensing chips.
Now these are not expensive chips, <$5US IIRC each, but I am interested in
experimenting with them, so tried to get some samples. The web site has a
button saying samples available, but the site gave me the run around trying
to place an order for samples. Eventually I filled in a "request for sample
availability" page and this morning had an email saying samples are not
available.

Compare that to Microchip, where every sample request I have made has been
honoured. I just received some samples from Analog Devices, a 16 bit 130MSPS
A/D converter chip, and 1 each of 3 different companion 1.6GHz clock chips.
After receiving them I looked up the chip prices, the clock chips are
US$5.95 each, but the A/D is US$65 each - and I got one as a sample. OK they
are offering samples for a limited time only, while they ramp up production,
but they still handed it out no questions asked.

2006\06\28@082653 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Luis Moreira wrote:
> Hi Bob & Herbert,
> Point taken, when you guys had your problems I was 10 years old and about 6 years from discovering the PIC, and perhaps that is why I see it differently.
> Now my problem is that I only started having a look and using Freescale micros about two years ago. Luckily I have working with me a 63 year old engineer that went through all this, but still recognises how good the Freescale products are, and he kind of push me forward to have a look at it. What you all said about Motorola really influences me too, and when things seemed to go wrong I always had that in the back of my mind. If it wasn't for him I would have drop it many months back.
> If I had drop it I would definitely had miss out.
> This also applies to Altera which now is offering great products, but in the past has had very serious problems.
> What I am trying to say is that what you guys say influences a lot of people in this list. I do appreciate you sharing your experiences with us, and now after you explained why you dismiss Freescale every time, I can better make and educated decision about them. Just dismissing it is not fair, not for Freescale because they can take care of them self's, but to all off us.
> Best regards
>                Luis
>
> P.S.- Sometimes I have a big problem to put in words what I really want to say so I hope I expressed it correctly, and I am sorry you lost that much just because of a stupid management decision from Motorola .  
If I were Motorola, I probably would have make the same decision, but
instead of halting production on a mature product, I would  have put in
a NEW plant for the new cellphone chips. It was a bad decision on their
part, and they are now living with the consequences.

--Bob
>  
>        
>
>
>
>
> {Original Message removed}

2006\06\28@083931 by Philip Pemberton

face picon face
Bob Axtell wrote:
> If I were Motorola, I probably would have make the same decision, but
> instead of halting production on a mature product, I would  have put in
> a NEW plant for the new cellphone chips. It was a bad decision on their
> part, and they are now living with the consequences.

It was probably more like:
  Engineer: "We've got the designs for the cellphone chips done, but our
current factories can't produce the production quantities we need without
stopping production of other products."
  Manager: "OK, I'll pass that on to my manager."
[ the request works its way up the chain of command ]
  CEO: "OK, those, whatchamacallits..."
  CEO's assistant: "Microcontrollers, sir."
  CEO: "Yeah, macro-ma-controller-mators. Stop production, and start
production of the cellphone parts."
  CEO's assistant: "Sir, with all due respect, we've got over 60,000
customers who have orders placed for those chips..."
  CEO: "I know how many customers we have, but the cellphone chips are more
important. People need cellphones!"
  CEO's assistant: "People need cars too - those parts are in use on a lot of
car ECU modules..."
  CEO: "Don't you think I know that? Stop questioning me! Switch production
NOW, or I'll have your head!"
  CEO's assistant: "*sigh*... Yes, sir, I'll let the customers know they're
going to have to wait."
  CEO: "Good. Let my secretary know that I'm going to be out for the morning.
Actually, make that the rest of the day. I've got a very important golf game
to attend."
  CEO's assistant: "Yes sir..."

"If in doubt, blame the management" - IWFM...

--
Phil.                         | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G ViewFinder
philpemspamKILLspamdsl.pipex.com         | Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 512M+100G
http://www.philpem.me.uk/     | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 256M+40G

2006\06\28@094710 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 6/28/06, William Chops Westfield <.....westfwKILLspamspam.....mac.com> wrote:
>
> On Jun 28, 2006, at 12:53 AM, Luis Moreira wrote:
>
> > This also applies to Altera which now is offering great
> > products, but in the past has had very serious problems.
>
> For that matter, Atmel had some serious availability issues
> with their AVRs for quite some time.  IIRC they bought a few
> extra Fab lines, ramped up production, and solved that problem
> just in time for the high-tech market to collapse :-(  But
> I haven't heard of it being a problem recently.  (They still
> have vaporware issues, it looks like, and they're getting
> flak over replacing products with "near equivalents" without
> maintaining production of the older parts.  As far as I've
> seen, NO ONE does that as well as microchip.)
>
> BillW

Good news from Atmel. Is this confirmed? Or is it just because you
are in a big company? My current colleagues in US is a bit surprised that
my previous company had problems with Atmel before. Then I realized
now I am in a bigger company and it is of course a better customer
for Atmel...

Regards,
Xiaofan

2006\06\28@215213 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Jun 28, 2006, at 6:47 AM, Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> Good news from Atmel. Is this confirmed?

I thought it was several years old, and that there were
even possibilities that things had moved backward since
then.  For a while, many AVRs were as rare as hens' teeth;
now they're almost as common from hobbyist dealers as PICs.

(I don't have any visibility into cisco's purchasing department,
so I don't know of our "big company" experiences.  If I did, I
probably shouldn't talk about it :-)

BillW

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