Post by thread:[OT]: Floppy Sensitivity

Hi all, Anyone notice that floppy discs seem to be getting touchy these days. Earlier I on I used to cart them all over the place with little problem. Now I take them from home to work and they are unreadable unless I wrap them in a static bag for the trip. USB memory sticks are looking attractive me thinks :-) -- Best regards Tony mICros http://www.bubblesoftonline.com spam_OUTsalesTakeThisOuTbubblesoftonline.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email .....listservKILLspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Yeah, I'm kinda glad I have a stock of about 500 of them from the days when floppy drives saw more use. I think sales have dipped such that companies no longer care about being the best. The days of chucking them into a desk drawer for a year are over. ;\ Another thing I've noticed is that a disk that will work on one pc won't necessarily work on another. Was using 3Ms and had to format the disk three or four times before I could use it to boot a machine to format it. Same OS, just couldn't get it to read in both. >Anyone notice that floppy discs seem to be getting touchy these days. > >Earlier I on I used to cart them all over the place with little problem. >Now I take them from home to work and they are unreadable unless I wrap >them in a static bag for the trip. > >USB memory sticks are looking attractive me thinks :-) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Sean Alcorn - PIC Stuff wrote: > Is it the discs or the drives? > > I have long suspected that the newer drives are not anywhere near as > reliable as they used to be in the good 'ol days! :-) > > I am looking forward to ditching the last of mine into the round filing > cabinet! > > Cheers, > I have suffered from this problem for ages(since 1995) with my good old MS-DOS. Well, I discovered way back then that it was my floppy drive's fault. The head was whack... The test was. The disk was formatted and written using the faulty drive. Other drives cannot read the disk but only the faulty drive is able to..... Unfortunately as time passed by, the quality of diskettes has suffered. Nowadays, I honestly can't tell that my data would survive a year in a diskette. Regards, John Chung > > Sean > > -- > http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! > email listservspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email @spam@listservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> I have suffered from this problem for ages(since 1995) with my good old >MS-DOS. >Well, I discovered way back then that it was my floppy drive's fault. The >head was whack... >The test was. The disk was formatted and written using the faulty drive. >Other drives cannot >read the disk but only the faulty drive is able to..... > > Unfortunately as time passed by, the quality of diskettes has suffered. >Nowadays, I honestly >can't tell that my data would survive a year in a diskette. Floppy drives are used so little these days, and as the fan in the power supply sucks instead of blows (thanks to IBM) the floppy drive spends day after day collecting dust. When you finally come to use it, it is filthy. In days of yore, regular usage helped keep the heads relatively dust free. -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email KILLspamlistservKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> Anyone notice that floppy discs seem to be getting touchy these days. > > Earlier I on I used to cart them all over the place with little problem. > Now I take them from home to work and they are unreadable unless I wrap > them in a static bag for the trip. > > USB memory sticks are looking attractive me thinks :-) I have never found floppies to be very reliable. More then not a floppy good in one machine is useless in another. Personally I don't use any floppies unless absolutely necessary. TTYL -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> Floppy drives are used so little these days, and as the fan in the power > supply sucks instead of blows (thanks to IBM) the floppy drive spends day > after day collecting dust. When you finally come to use it, it is filthy. > In days of yore, regular usage helped keep the heads relatively dust free. These are both very good points, Sean. One notices the cabinet full of dust, if opened after a couple of weeks. In which case, might it help if you just reverse the facing of the fan in the SMPS? Maybe not a solution to the drive problem, but would perhaps keep your cabinet a lot cleaner? Regards, Anand Dhuru > > -- > http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! > email spamBeGonelistservspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body > -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email TakeThisOuTlistservEraseMEspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

x-no-archive:yes Hi, Both the floppy and drive quality has dropped quite a lot, just the price of them. Worst is when a dirty floppy stains the head with its oxide (somehow it sticks harder to the head than to the floppy), and while trying to prove "is it the drive or the floppy?" , more floppy get damage. One of the biggest-name floppy (*BM) seems to be worst culprit. Now I have to stored them in my big dry-box (a dysfunctional fridge). Ling SM > > Anyone notice that floppy discs seem to be getting touchy these days. > > > > Earlier I on I used to cart them all over the place with little problem. > > Now I take them from home to work and they are unreadable unless I wrap > > them in a static bag for the trip. > > > > USB memory sticks are looking attractive me thinks :-) > > I have never found floppies to be very reliable. More then not a floppy > good in one machine is useless in another. Personally I don't use any > floppies unless absolutely necessary. TTYL -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

--Apple-Mail-2--2511366 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Tuesday, Apr 1, 2003, at 13:41 Australia/Sydney, Anand Dhuru wrote: {Quote hidden}>> Floppy drives are used so little these days, and as the fan in the >> power >> supply sucks instead of blows (thanks to IBM) the floppy drive spends >> day >> after day collecting dust. When you finally come to use it, it is >> filthy. >> In days of yore, regular usage helped keep the heads relatively dust >> free. > > These are both very good points, Sean. One notices the cabinet full of > dust, > if opened after a couple of weeks. In which case, might it help if you > just > reverse the facing of the fan in the SMPS? Maybe not a solution to the > drive > problem, but would perhaps keep your cabinet a lot cleaner? This was Phil's comment actually, Anand, and personally I don't agree with it. Whether the fan "sucks" or "blows" is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the fan "sucks" or "blows" from or into the casing. The air has to enter and discharge from the case for there to be an airflow. If there is a flow of air, then the dust will be brought into the case no matter what. The only remedy is to filter the air at the point(s) where air is entering the casing. Regards, Sean -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservEraseME.....mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body --Apple-Mail-2--2511366 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Tuesday, Apr 1, 2003, at 13:41 Australia/Sydney, Anand Dhuru wrote: <excerpt><excerpt><fixed>Floppy drives are used so little these days, and as the fan in the power supply sucks instead of blows (thanks to IBM) the floppy drive spends day after day collecting dust. When you finally come to use it, it is filthy. In days of yore, regular usage helped keep the heads relatively dust free. </fixed></excerpt><fixed> These are both very good points, Sean. One notices the cabinet full of dust, if opened after a couple of weeks. In which case, might it help if you just reverse the facing of the fan in the SMPS? Maybe not a solution to the drive problem, but would perhaps keep your cabinet a lot cleaner? </fixed></excerpt><fixed> This was Phil's comment actually, Anand, and personally I don't agree with it. Whether the fan "sucks" or "blows" is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the fan "sucks" or "blows" from or into the casing. The air has to enter and discharge from the case for there to be an airflow. If there is a flow of air, then the dust will be brought into the case no matter what. The only remedy is to filter the air at the point(s) where air is entering the casing. Regards, Sean</fixed> --Apple-Mail-2--2511366--

Sean Alcorn - PIC Stuff wrote: > On Tuesday, Apr 1, 2003, at 13:41 Australia/Sydney, Anand Dhuru wrote: > > Floppy drives are used so little these days, and as the fan in the power > supply sucks instead of blows (thanks to IBM) the floppy drive spends day > after day collecting dust. When you finally come to use it, it is filthy. > In days of yore, regular usage helped keep the heads relatively dust free. > > These are both very good points, Sean. One notices the cabinet full of dust, > if opened after a couple of weeks. In which case, might it help if you just > reverse the facing of the fan in the SMPS? Maybe not a solution to the drive > problem, but would perhaps keep your cabinet a lot cleaner? My casing solves the dust problem by placing a filter(sponge like) in front of the intake fan. By the way, I have opened a disk drive after 7 years of operation and found that with all the dust that it has collected outside of it, hardly any dust found it's way into it. Oh, it's in perfect working condition. 3 1/2 " drive. I agreed the manufacturers have little reason to keep the quality with the prices so low nowadays........ Economics! > > > This was Phil's comment actually, Anand, and personally I don't agree with it. Whether the fan "sucks" or "blows" is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the fan "sucks" or "blows" from or into the casing. The air has to enter and discharge from the case for there to be an airflow. If there is a flow of air, then the dust will be brought into the case no matter what. The only remedy is to filter the air at the point(s) where air is entering the casing. > > Regards, > > Sean -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestmitvma.mit.edu>

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Alcorn - PIC Stuff" <RemoveMEpicstuffEraseMEEraseMESDALCORN.COM> To: <RemoveMEPICLISTspam_OUTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [OT]: Floppy Sensitivity {Quote hidden}> Is it the discs or the drives? > > I have long suspected that the newer drives are not anywhere near as > reliable as they used to be in the good 'ol days! :-) > > I am looking forward to ditching the last of mine into the round filing > cabinet! > > Cheers, > > Sean I keep a stock of the older "Double Density" floppies here for my classic Amigas. My wife tried last week to use one to carry some files between two windows boxes in the house. We found out that the "newer" windows machine can't tell a DD from an HD disk. They have removed the switch that detects the "HD" hole in the corner. At least some newer floppy drives now assume that all disks are "High Density" only. I found a USB Flash drive under the tree this Christmas, and it gets daily use carrying files between my home and work machines. So far, it has worked great! Lyle -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu>

>>>Floppy drives are used so little these days, and as the fan in the power >>>supply sucks instead of blows (thanks to IBM) the floppy drive spends day >>>after day collecting dust. When you finally come to use it, it is filthy. >>>In days of yore, regular usage helped keep the heads relatively dust free. >> >>These are both very good points, Sean. One notices the cabinet full of dust, >>if opened after a couple of weeks. In which case, might it help if you just >>reverse the facing of the fan in the SMPS? Maybe not a solution to the drive >>problem, but would perhaps keep your cabinet a lot cleaner? > >This was Phil's comment actually, Anand, and personally I don't agree with >it. Whether the fan "sucks" or "blows" is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if >the fan "sucks" or "blows" from or into the casing. The air has to enter >and discharge from the case for there to be an airflow. If there is a flow >of air, then the dust will be brought into the case no matter what. The >only remedy is to filter the air at the point(s) where air is entering the >casing. Precisely, and if indeed the fan sucked instead of blowing then all you would need would be a filter on the power supply fan inlet port. Instead, air and dust is drawn in unfiltered through every little nook and cranny in your PC casing including the floppy drive opening. But, because IBM put the fan in backwards when they released the first PC in the 80's, every clone vendor ever since has copied this error. Phil Seakins. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu>

Phil Seakins <RemoveMEpseakinsKILLspamAKAMAIL.COM> wrote: > But, because IBM put the fan in backwards when they released the first PC > in the 80's, every clone vendor ever since has copied this error. You've made that statement twice now. Perhaps from the point of view of dust management, this choice was an "error", but from a thermal point of view, it's exactly the right choice. You want the coolest available air circulating over your motherboard and CPU; you don't want to preheat it by running it through the power supply first! The best configuration is to have both intake and exhaust fans, with filters over the intake fans to catch the dust, and enough excess capacity in the intake fans so that the net box pressure is positive relative to ambient, even as the filters begin to load up. The exhaust fans are arranged so as to draw the air through the hottest areas (e.g., power supply) last. -- Dave Tweed -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList piclist-unsubscribe-requestSTOPspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu>

From: "Phil Seakins" <spamBeGonepseakinsSTOPspamEraseMEAKAMAIL.COM> > >>>Floppy drives are used so little these days, and as the fan in the power > >>>supply sucks instead of blows (thanks to IBM) the floppy drive spends day > >>>after day collecting dust. When you finally come to use it, it is filthy. > >>>In days of yore, regular usage helped keep the heads relatively dust free. > >>These are both very good points, Sean. One notices the cabinet full of dust, > >>if opened after a couple of weeks. In which case, might it help if you just > >>reverse the facing of the fan in the SMPS? Maybe not a solution to the drive > >>problem, but would perhaps keep your cabinet a lot cleaner? > >This was Phil's comment actually, Anand, and personally I don't agree with > >it. Whether the fan "sucks" or "blows" is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if > >the fan "sucks" or "blows" from or into the casing. The air has to enter > >and discharge from the case for there to be an airflow. If there is a flow > >of air, then the dust will be brought into the case no matter what. The > >only remedy is to filter the air at the point(s) where air is entering the > >casing. > Precisely, and if indeed the fan sucked instead of blowing then all you > would need would be a filter on the power supply fan inlet port. Instead, > air and dust is drawn in unfiltered through every little nook and cranny in > your PC casing including the floppy drive opening. But, because IBM put the > fan in backwards when they released the first PC in the 80's, every clone > vendor ever since has copied this error. Well, this wasn't an error like you say. It has to do with power and heat. A high load PSU today would be about 70% effective in regulating the power to the computer... (look it up someone?) This would mean that if the power drew about 200watts, dissapated about 60w and delivered about 140w. 60w would be a lot of hot air if sucked into the computer. Blown out instead would mean a 30% reduction in total heat dissapated in case. 30% is a lot in such circumstances... They were a lot poorer before. KreAture -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList KILLspampiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu>

> -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Seakins [SMTP:EraseMEpseakinsEraseMEAKAMAIL.COM] > Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 7:12 PM > To: @spam@PICLIST@spam@spam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [OT]: Floppy Sensitivity > > But, because IBM put the > fan in backwards when they released the first PC in the 80's, every clone > vendor ever since has copied this error. > > Phil Seakins. > The current ATX form factors specifications reccommend that PSU fan works as an exhaust fan for the PC, i.e. blowing air out. This was changed from early version which advised to have the fan blowing into the case simply because modern PSU's often have 350W or more power ratings, and generate a significant amount of heat under load. It would be madness to blow the hot air generated by the PSU over the (hot) CPU, motherboard and video chipset. Regards Mike ======================================================================= This e-mail is intended for the person it is addressed to only. The information contained in it may be confidential and/or protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must not make any use of this information, or copy or show it to any person. Please contact us immediately to tell us that you have received this e-mail, and return the original to us. Any use, forwarding, printing or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. No part of this message can be considered a request for goods or services. ======================================================================= Any questions about Bookham's E-Mail service should be directed to spamBeGonepostmasterKILLspambookham.com. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads