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'[OT]: Floppy Sensitivity'
2003\03\31@175935 by Tony Nixon

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Hi all,

Anyone notice that floppy discs seem to be getting touchy these days.

Earlier I on I used to cart them all over the place with little problem.
Now I take them from home to work and they are unreadable unless I wrap
them in a static bag for the trip.

USB memory sticks are looking attractive me thinks :-)

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2003\03\31@195208 by Robert O'Robberson

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Yeah, I'm kinda glad I have a stock of about 500 of them from the days when
floppy drives saw more use.

I think sales have dipped such that companies no longer care about being the
best. The days of chucking them into a desk drawer for a year are over. ;\

Another thing I've noticed is that a disk that will work on one pc won't
necessarily work on another. Was using 3Ms and had to format the disk three
or four times before I could use it to boot a machine to format it. Same OS,
just couldn't get it to read in both.

>Anyone notice that floppy discs seem to be getting touchy these days.
>
>Earlier I on I used to cart them all over the place with little problem.
>Now I take them from home to work and they are unreadable unless I wrap
>them in a static bag for the trip.
>
>USB memory sticks are looking attractive me thinks :-)

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2003\03\31@201047 by Sean Alcorn - PIC Stuff

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Is it the discs or the drives?

I have long suspected that the newer drives are not anywhere near as
reliable as they used to be in the good 'ol days! :-)

I am looking forward to ditching the last of mine into the round filing
cabinet!

Cheers,

Sean

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2003\03\31@203634 by Jinx

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> Another thing I've noticed is that a disk that will work on one pc
> won't necessarily work on another. Was using 3Ms and had to
> format the disk three or four times before I could use it to boot
> a machine to format it. Same OS, just couldn't get it to read in
> both.

Me too. Looking for a file through a few dozen a couple of weeks
ago and 1/2 were reported as unreadable or unformatted

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2003\03\31@204441 by john chung

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Sean Alcorn - PIC Stuff wrote:

> Is it the discs or the drives?
>
> I have long suspected that the newer drives are not anywhere near as
> reliable as they used to be in the good 'ol days! :-)
>
> I am looking forward to ditching the last of mine into the round filing
> cabinet!
>
> Cheers,
>

   I have suffered from this problem for ages(since 1995) with my good old MS-DOS.
Well, I discovered way back then that it was my floppy drive's fault. The head was whack...
The test was. The disk was formatted and written using the faulty drive. Other drives cannot
read the disk but only the faulty drive is able to.....

  Unfortunately as time passed by, the quality of diskettes has suffered. Nowadays, I honestly
can't tell that my data would survive a year in a diskette.

Regards,
John Chung


>
> Sean
>
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2003\03\31@210808 by Phil Seakins

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>    I have suffered from this problem for ages(since 1995) with my good old
>MS-DOS.
>Well, I discovered way back then that it was my floppy drive's fault. The
>head was whack...
>The test was. The disk was formatted and written using the faulty drive.
>Other drives cannot
>read the disk but only the faulty drive is able to.....
>
>   Unfortunately as time passed by, the quality of diskettes has suffered.
>Nowadays, I honestly
>can't tell that my data would survive a year in a diskette.

Floppy drives are used so little these days, and as the fan in the power
supply sucks instead of blows (thanks to IBM) the floppy drive spends day
after day collecting dust. When you finally come to use it, it is filthy.
In days of yore, regular usage helped keep the heads relatively dust free.

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2003\03\31@221734 by Herbert Graf

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> Anyone notice that floppy discs seem to be getting touchy these days.
>
> Earlier I on I used to cart them all over the place with little problem.
> Now I take them from home to work and they are unreadable unless I wrap
> them in a static bag for the trip.
>
> USB memory sticks are looking attractive me thinks :-)

       I have never found floppies to be very reliable. More then not a floppy
good in one machine is useless in another. Personally I don't use any
floppies unless absolutely necessary. TTYL

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2003\03\31@225202 by Anand Dhuru

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> Floppy drives are used so little these days, and as the fan in the power
> supply sucks instead of blows (thanks to IBM) the floppy drive spends day
> after day collecting dust. When you finally come to use it, it is filthy.
> In days of yore, regular usage helped keep the heads relatively dust free.

These are both very good points, Sean. One notices the cabinet full of dust,
if opened after a couple of weeks. In which case, might it help if you just
reverse the facing of the fan in the SMPS? Maybe not a solution to the drive
problem, but would perhaps keep your cabinet a lot cleaner?

Regards,

Anand Dhuru

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2003\03\31@225402 by SM Ling

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Hi,

Both the floppy and drive quality has dropped quite a lot, just the price of
them.

Worst is when a dirty floppy stains the head with its oxide (somehow it
sticks harder to the head than to the floppy), and while trying to prove "is
it the drive or the floppy?" , more floppy get damage.  One of the
biggest-name floppy (*BM) seems to be worst culprit.

Now I have to stored them in my big dry-box (a dysfunctional fridge).

Ling SM

> > Anyone notice that floppy discs seem to be getting touchy these days.
> >
> > Earlier I on I used to cart them all over the place with little problem.
> > Now I take them from home to work and they are unreadable unless I wrap
> > them in a static bag for the trip.
> >
> > USB memory sticks are looking attractive me thinks :-)
>
>         I have never found floppies to be very reliable. More then not a
floppy
> good in one machine is useless in another. Personally I don't use any
> floppies unless absolutely necessary. TTYL

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2003\03\31@233515 by Sean Alcorn - PIC Stuff

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On Tuesday, Apr 1, 2003, at 13:41 Australia/Sydney, Anand Dhuru wrote:

{Quote hidden}

This was Phil's comment actually, Anand, and personally I don't agree
with it. Whether the fan "sucks" or "blows" is irrelevant. It doesn't
matter if the fan "sucks" or "blows" from or into the casing. The air
has to enter and discharge from the case for there to be an airflow. If
there is a flow of air, then the dust will be brought into the case no
matter what. The only remedy is to filter the air at the point(s) where
air is entering the casing.

Regards,

Sean

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On Tuesday, Apr 1, 2003, at 13:41 Australia/Sydney, Anand Dhuru wrote:


<excerpt><excerpt><fixed>Floppy drives are used so little these days,
and as the fan in the power

supply sucks instead of blows (thanks to IBM) the floppy drive spends
day

after day collecting dust. When you finally come to use it, it is
filthy.

In days of yore, regular usage helped keep the heads relatively dust
free.

</fixed></excerpt><fixed>

These are both very good points, Sean. One notices the cabinet full of
dust,

if opened after a couple of weeks. In which case, might it help if you
just

reverse the facing of the fan in the SMPS? Maybe not a solution to the
drive

problem, but would perhaps keep your cabinet a lot cleaner?

</fixed></excerpt><fixed>

This was Phil's comment actually, Anand, and personally I don't agree
with it. Whether the fan "sucks" or "blows" is irrelevant. It doesn't
matter if the fan "sucks" or "blows" from or into the casing. The air
has to enter and discharge from the case for there to be an airflow.
If there is a flow of air, then the dust will be brought into the case
no matter what. The only remedy is to filter the air at the point(s)
where air is entering the casing.


Regards,


Sean</fixed>


--Apple-Mail-2--2511366--


'[OT]: Floppy Sensitivity'
2003\04\01@011146 by john chung
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Sean Alcorn - PIC Stuff wrote:

> On Tuesday, Apr 1, 2003, at 13:41 Australia/Sydney, Anand Dhuru wrote:
>
>           Floppy drives are used so little these days, and as the fan in the power
>           supply sucks instead of blows (thanks to IBM) the floppy drive spends day
>           after day collecting dust. When you finally come to use it, it is filthy.
>           In days of yore, regular usage helped keep the heads relatively dust free.
>
>      These are both very good points, Sean. One notices the cabinet full of dust,
>      if opened after a couple of weeks. In which case, might it help if you just
>      reverse the facing of the fan in the SMPS? Maybe not a solution to the drive
>      problem, but would perhaps keep your cabinet a lot cleaner?

     My casing solves the dust problem by placing a filter(sponge like) in front of the intake fan. By the way,
I have opened a disk drive after 7 years of operation and found that with all the dust that
it has collected outside of it, hardly any dust found it's way into it. Oh, it's in perfect working condition. 3 1/2 " drive.

    I agreed the manufacturers have little reason to keep the quality with the prices so low nowadays........ Economics!

>
>
> This was Phil's comment actually, Anand, and personally I don't agree with it. Whether the fan "sucks" or "blows" is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the fan "sucks" or "blows" from or into the casing. The air has to enter and discharge from the case for there to be an airflow. If there is a flow of air, then the dust will be brought into the case no matter what. The only remedy is to filter the air at the point(s) where air is entering the casing.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sean

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2003\04\01@064450 by Lyle Hazelwood

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Alcorn - PIC Stuff" <RemoveMEpicstuffEraseMEspamEraseMESDALCORN.COM>
To: <RemoveMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: [OT]: Floppy Sensitivity


{Quote hidden}

I keep a stock of the older "Double Density" floppies here for my classic
Amigas. My wife tried last week to use one to carry some files between
two windows boxes in the house. We found out that the "newer" windows
machine can't tell a DD from an HD disk. They have removed the switch
that detects the "HD" hole in the corner. At least some newer floppy
drives now assume that all disks are "High Density" only.
I found a USB Flash drive under the tree this Christmas, and it gets daily
use carrying files between my home and work machines. So far, it has
worked great!
Lyle

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2003\04\06@150704 by Phil Seakins

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>>>Floppy drives are used so little these days, and as the fan in the power
>>>supply sucks instead of blows (thanks to IBM) the floppy drive spends day
>>>after day collecting dust. When you finally come to use it, it is filthy.
>>>In days of yore, regular usage helped keep the heads relatively dust free.
>>
>>These are both very good points, Sean. One notices the cabinet full of dust,
>>if opened after a couple of weeks. In which case, might it help if you just
>>reverse the facing of the fan in the SMPS? Maybe not a solution to the drive
>>problem, but would perhaps keep your cabinet a lot cleaner?
>
>This was Phil's comment actually, Anand, and personally I don't agree with
>it. Whether the fan "sucks" or "blows" is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if
>the fan "sucks" or "blows" from or into the casing. The air has to enter
>and discharge from the case for there to be an airflow. If there is a flow
>of air, then the dust will be brought into the case no matter what. The
>only remedy is to filter the air at the point(s) where air is entering the
>casing.

Precisely, and if indeed the fan sucked instead of blowing then all you
would need would be a filter on the power supply fan inlet port. Instead,
air and dust is drawn in unfiltered through every little nook and cranny in
your PC casing including the floppy drive opening. But, because IBM put the
fan in backwards when they released the first PC in the 80's, every clone
vendor ever since has copied this error.

Phil Seakins.

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2003\04\06@160411 by Dave Tweed

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Phil Seakins <RemoveMEpseakinsKILLspamspamAKAMAIL.COM> wrote:
> But, because IBM put the fan in backwards when they released the first PC
> in the 80's, every clone vendor ever since has copied this error.

You've made that statement twice now. Perhaps from the point of view of
dust management, this choice was an "error", but from a thermal point of
view, it's exactly the right choice. You want the coolest available air
circulating over your motherboard and CPU; you don't want to preheat it
by running it through the power supply first!

The best configuration is to have both intake and exhaust fans, with
filters over the intake fans to catch the dust, and enough excess capacity
in the intake fans so that the net box pressure is positive relative to
ambient, even as the filters begin to load up. The exhaust fans are
arranged so as to draw the air through the hottest areas (e.g., power
supply) last.

-- Dave Tweed

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2003\04\06@184443 by Kyrre Aalerud

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From: "Phil Seakins" <spamBeGonepseakinsSTOPspamspamEraseMEAKAMAIL.COM>
> >>>Floppy drives are used so little these days, and as the fan in the
power
> >>>supply sucks instead of blows (thanks to IBM) the floppy drive spends
day
> >>>after day collecting dust. When you finally come to use it, it is
filthy.
> >>>In days of yore, regular usage helped keep the heads relatively dust
free.
> >>These are both very good points, Sean. One notices the cabinet full of
dust,
> >>if opened after a couple of weeks. In which case, might it help if you
just
> >>reverse the facing of the fan in the SMPS? Maybe not a solution to the
drive
> >>problem, but would perhaps keep your cabinet a lot cleaner?
> >This was Phil's comment actually, Anand, and personally I don't agree
with
> >it. Whether the fan "sucks" or "blows" is irrelevant. It doesn't matter
if
> >the fan "sucks" or "blows" from or into the casing. The air has to enter
> >and discharge from the case for there to be an airflow. If there is a
flow
> >of air, then the dust will be brought into the case no matter what. The
> >only remedy is to filter the air at the point(s) where air is entering
the
> >casing.
> Precisely, and if indeed the fan sucked instead of blowing then all you
> would need would be a filter on the power supply fan inlet port. Instead,
> air and dust is drawn in unfiltered through every little nook and cranny
in
> your PC casing including the floppy drive opening. But, because IBM put
the
> fan in backwards when they released the first PC in the 80's, every clone
> vendor ever since has copied this error.

Well, this wasn't an error like you say.
It has to do with power and heat.  A high load PSU today would be about 70%
effective in regulating the power to the computer... (look it up someone?)
This would mean that if the power drew about 200watts, dissapated about 60w
and delivered about 140w.  60w would be a lot of hot air if sucked into the
computer.  Blown out instead would mean a 30% reduction in total heat
dissapated in case.  30% is a lot in such circumstances...

They were a lot poorer before.

   KreAture

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2003\04\06@203109 by John Ferrell

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Once upon a time I maintained IBM 3800 Laser printers.
These printers frequently put nearly ton (2000 pounds!) each 8 hour shift.
The were about as filthy a printer that could be devised. They existed in an
environment
of toner and paper dust.

There was also an 8 inch floppy drive that was just hanging there in the
filth.
It was really rare to see a floppy disk problem.

If your floppy problem really is dirt, you should be able to clean it to fix
it.

{Original Message removed}

2003\04\07@031931 by hael Rigby-Jones

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phil Seakins [SMTP:EraseMEpseakinsspamEraseMEAKAMAIL.COM]
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 7:12 PM
> To:   @spam@PICLIST@spam@spamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject:      Re: [OT]: Floppy Sensitivity
>
> But, because IBM put the
> fan in backwards when they released the first PC in the 80's, every clone
> vendor ever since has copied this error.
>
> Phil Seakins.
>
The current ATX form factors specifications reccommend that PSU fan works as
an exhaust fan for the PC, i.e. blowing air out.  This was changed from
early version which advised to have the fan blowing into the case simply
because modern PSU's often have 350W or more power ratings, and generate a
significant amount of heat under load. It would be madness to blow the hot
air generated by the PSU over the (hot) CPU, motherboard and video chipset.

Regards

Mike


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