Searching \ for '[OT]: Drilling and soldering' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: techref.massmind.org/techref/index.htm?key=drilling+soldering
Search entire site for: 'Drilling and soldering'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[OT]: Drilling and soldering'
2003\04\24@202139 by Jai Dhar

flavicon
face
Hello all,

I just finished my first double sided board using UV to transfer the tracks.
The board turned out really well, except I'm having a problem while drilling.
When drilling holes that don't have a track attached (ie: just a pad), the pad
lifts off the board and goes onto the drill bit? It really isn't a HUGE problem
since there is no track attached, but I do lose a soldering point... which
brings me to my next question.

Are there any techniques used for soldering a component on both sides of the
board?  What I mean is that it's easy to solder the bottom side of the board
since it's just the component leads that stick out... but on the top side, I
have to sorta squeeze the iron between the board and the component - this can
easily burn the component, and it looks kind of messy since the component isn't
all the way down against the board. But I can't think of any other way to
solder it to the top tracks??? I hope I have explained myself clearly,

Thank you,

Jai



----------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.mywaterloo.ca

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2003\04\24@203636 by Picdude

flavicon
face
Sounds like a problem with the brand or PCB you're using, or perhaps a bad (dull) drill bit...?  I have not had this problem, using harbor-freight drill bits, and a drill press operating at about 1000 rpm.

Many techniques to solder w/o plated-thru holes....
- Suspend part about 1/4" (more or less depending on part) above board so you have access to solder the top.   Works well for me, except I question the mechanical hold on the part if I'm going to use the board in a vehicle, etc.
- Tin the leads on the part, solder same as above, then slowly push the part down while keeping the lead heated, and sort of "squish" the solder on.  I've had poor results with this.
- Design the board so that the pads are mostly on the bottom, except where you know you have access to the top (like vertically-mounted axial caps, etc).  I always do this nowadays and it definitely solves a lot of problems.
- Add additional vias just outside of the component pads and component dimensions for the connection.


Cheers,
-Neil.



On Thursday 24 April 2003 19:20, Jai Dhar wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2003\04\24@210300 by Chris Loiacono

flavicon
face
There are small eyelets in several styles that you can use to create
thru-hole barrels. Both get mechanically swaged at both ends to contact the
copper layers.
If you are hand soldering you simply have to heat the pad & barrel on both
sides and flow a minimal amount of solder - voila - same result a PTH's.
Try Kester Solder Co. Theirs come in break-apart sticks.

Chris
{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2003\04\24@210518 by Jai Dhar

flavicon
face
Well, I'm using a good quality Dremel Multipro tool with the drill stand, but
not on the highest speed setting or anything. I'm on the 3rd setting out of 10,
and the reason I do'nt go higher is because smoke is coming out of the board
when I drill a hole, heh. I'm afraid if I go faster, it will light the board on
fire or melt it :-) But I will give it a try just to see. As for the soldering,
it seems that the best way to do it is plan a bit ahead, or place vias near it.
It's a shame because it took so much work to do my current board, I don't want
to do it again :-( I guess you learn these things along the way....

Quoting Picdude <spam_OUTpicdudeTakeThisOuTspamNARWANI.ORG>:

{Quote hidden}

----------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.mywaterloo.ca

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2003\04\24@211721 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
I try to restict the topside pads that need soldering to a minimum on my
amateur-made non-plated-though boards.  When it's required, I try to
pick components and pads where (separate) topside solding isn't difficult,
such as resistor leads as opposed to IC leads, and definately not leads
that are underneath a package.  Ideally, you can add vias (containing
bare wire that you solder easilly on both sides before adding other
components) in places of pads that expect connectivity on both sides.

On the other hand, this is something of a pain, and results in board
designs that are somewhat "weird" and cry out for redesign should they
ever get sent to a professional board house...

BillW

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2003\04\24@211938 by Picdude

flavicon
face
If I solder and re-solder on a pad a half-dozen times, it will lift eventually.  Perhaps you're overheating the board as it is?  Try the very slowest setting.  No need for anything too fast as the board drills quite quickly.

Yes, plan ahead, or look for those eyelets Chris L. just mentioned.  I've never found a source for them in the US, so haven't bothered to try.  But if I get my hands on some, I definitely will.  It's the last step in making fully professional boards.

Cheers,
-Neil.




On Thursday 24 April 2003 20:04, Jai Dhar wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2003\04\24@214141 by Jai Dhar

flavicon
face
If anyone knows who sells them in North America (those eyelets), I would
appreciate knowing since they seem like a good investment :-) Not that there is
any substitute for good board layout, they definitely seem like a nifty
addition...

Quoting Picdude <picdudespamKILLspamNARWANI.ORG>:

{Quote hidden}

----------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.mywaterloo.ca

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2003\04\24@221123 by James Williams

picon face
You don't need to worry so much about burning the board.  Almost every
clad board that I know is made of some form of phenolic resin: G-9 glass
phenolics and such. Here is a link to data information on working with
phenolics.  The company that I work for deals with phenolics on a daily
basis.  It is not uncommon for phenolic to smoke when machining at high
speeds, especially when drilling or machining glass or epoxy resin
phenolics.

http://www.norva.com/Materials/Phenolic/Phenolicselector.htm

{Original Message removed}

2003\04\24@223626 by Colin Constant

picon face
The other thing to try is bigger pads.

Colin


{Quote hidden}

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2003\04\25@011038 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   If anyone knows who sells them in North America (those eyelets), I would
   appreciate knowing since they seem like a good investment :-)

LPKF has a 'store' at their US web site that sells them.  pretty expensive,
though ($45 per 1000 for refills.  $225 for the "kit.")

BillW

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email KILLspamlistservKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2003\04\25@015029 by Vern Jones

flavicon
face
Hello Jai,

I had a problem that was similar with lifting pads. To solve the problem
I made the area where the hole is drilled the same size as the drill, I
also increased the pad size.

If your cutter is smoking the board, you may have a dull cutter...use
only carbide cutters.
If the board under the pad is heated sufficiently, this may cause a pad
to lift as well.

So it boils down to sharp tool, proper drill-hole size and sufficient
pad area. I don't lift pads anymore..

Vern

Jai Dhar wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2003\04\25@083320 by Mike Hord

picon face
Bigger pads is not a bad idea, and something that I've found works VERY well
is to use square pads instead of round ones, IF your layout software allows.
 I've also had some luck with putting cellophane tape over the pad, or a
piece of plexiglass with a hole just the right size, but those can be a
pain.  For pads on the underside of the board, you can put down a piece of
scrap PCB or Plexi and drill thru both layers.

The vias near the pin so you can solder bottom and then change to top is
another good idea.  And for heaven's sake, if you can't avoid soldering to
the top of a board, make sure the trace does leave the pad UNDER an IC, as
that becomes almost impossible to solder!

Last item:  use a piece of steel wool to burnish the copper on the board
before soldering or tinning.  The difference between the behavior of solder
on a burnished board and and an unburnished one is night and day.  I know a
few guys who will actually do all the leads on their components, but I think
that's a little over kill.

PS- If anyone knows a place where I can buy a kit for PCB etching, please
let me know!  I'm looking for a "no-strings kit": lamp, tank, chemicals,
everything, for as low a price as possible.  I'm also wondering if anyone
has had any luck with the "iron-on" toner transfer method...

Mike Hord



{Quote hidden}

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email RemoveMElistservspam_OUTspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2003\04\25@104124 by John Ferrell

face picon face
The speed and cutting angle make a big difference in the effectiveness of
drills.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jai Dhar" <RemoveMEjdharTakeThisOuTspamspamENGMAIL.UWATERLOO.CA>
To: <EraseMEPICLISTspamspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 8:20 PM
Subject: [OT]: Drilling and soldering


> Hello all,
>
>  I just finished my first double sided board using UV to transfer the
tracks.
> The board turned out really well, except I'm having a problem while
drilling.
> When drilling holes that don't have a track attached (ie: just a pad), the
pad
> lifts off the board and goes onto the drill bit? It really isn't a HUGE
problem
> since there is no track attached, but I do lose a soldering point... which
> brings me to my next question.
>
>  Are there any techniques used for soldering a component on both sides of
the
> board?  What I mean is that it's easy to solder the bottom side of the
board
> since it's just the component leads that stick out... but on the top side,
I
> have to sorta squeeze the iron between the board and the component - this
can
> easily burn the component, and it looks kind of messy since the component
isn't
{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email RemoveMElistservKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2003\04\25@105801 by Chris Loiacono

flavicon
face
If well-adhered copper is getting pulled off the board, the back-grind angle
of the drill's flutes is usually responsible. With larger drills, it is
common to remove the back "lip" by hand with a grinder to resolve this. With
small diameter drills, not so easy. You're better off buying some better
quality drills to work on your masterpieces. This back-grind shape is
characteristic of inexpensive drills. Avoid anything from a local hardware
store, or any that come on card or blister packs, such as Vermont drills &
the like. Cheap CHinese drills sometimes work out very well with glass
boards, because they are typically overhardened - bad for breakage with the
average user, but good for abrasive materials like paper & glass.

Another possible scenario is that of drill RPM being too low- this requires
that the drill be held to the workpiece long enough to generate sufficient
heat to burn the laminating adhesive that holds the Cu to the substrate.
This does happen frequently with circuit boards because the substrates used
do not conduct heat away from the cut, as is the case in metalworking.
effective and consistent PCB ios even more sensitive to the need for good
tools and correct practice.

Remember from last week's thread that with typical circuit board size holes
the RPM has to be way up there, with 1,000 to 1,500 RPM being a minimum in
most cases- up to thousands of RPM.

C

>
>
> The speed and cutting angle make a big difference in the
> effectiveness of
> drills.

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email listservSTOPspamspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2003\04\27@031052 by jim barchuk

flavicon
face
Hi All!

On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Mike Hord wrote:

> Last item:  use a piece of steel wool to burnish the copper on the board
> before soldering or tinning.  The difference between the behavior of
> solder on a burnished board and and an unburnished one is night and day.
> I know a few guys who will actually do all the leads on their
> components, but I think that's a little over kill.

Update: Scotch Brite, not steel wool. A harder metal will eat the copper,
quite quickly too I'd bet, but the plastic will only polish it.

You are absolutely correct though about the cleaning thing though. Copper
oxidizes as soon at it hits the air. Fortunately it's not too thick for a
while.

I don't think cleaning component leads is too silly necessarily. Depends
on why they're doing it such as to minimise 'hot time.' Granted I've never
even -heard- of the practice in 40 yrs of soldering, but to each their
own. :)

TQOTD Trivia Question Of The Day

What is the color of pure raw clean unoxidized copper?

If you don't know scroll down for answer.



























































Pink.

Have a :) day!

jb

--
jim barchuk
spamBeGonejbSTOPspamspamEraseMEjbarchuk.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\04\27@040146 by Jinx

face picon face
> Hi All!

HELLO JIM !!!!!!

> I don't think cleaning component leads is too silly necessarily. Depends
> on why they're doing it such as to minimise 'hot time.' Granted I've never
> even -heard- of the practice in 40 yrs of soldering, but to each their
> own. :)

Components, especially resistors and capacitors, that have sat around
for a while do get tarnished leads. I keep an old nail file handy to scratch
them up a bit before soldering. Either soldering one lead then trimming
the other (to make a raw end) or trimming both before soldering reduces
chances of future dry joints

I made up a couple of dozen boards yesterday with resistors and diodes
from bandoliers and then wondered, when cleaning up the huge pile of
off-cuts, why these components always have such long leads. It's quite
rare to see the whole thing used, generally they're on 0.3" or 0.4" spacing.
I considered whether it's a handling issue, but pick and place machines
manage just fine with SMT

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads


'[OT]: Drilling and soldering'
2003\05\07@141528 by jim barchuk
flavicon
face
Hi Jinx.

Forgot to reply to this one.

On Sun, 27 Apr 2003, Jinx wrote:

> I made up a couple of dozen boards yesterday with resistors and diodes
> from bandoliers and then wondered, when cleaning up the huge pile of
> off-cuts, why these components always have such long leads. It's quite
> rare to see the whole thing used, generally they're on 0.3" or 0.4"
> spacing. I considered whether it's a handling issue, but pick and place
> machines manage just fine with SMT

The machine I used was a bench-mounted hand-cranked component lead cutter.
I'm sure there are motorised versions too. There were adjustments for each
side lead length. Probably an adjustment for the cut length too but that
wasn't something I was supposed to do. And there was a lot of complicated
mechano-guts in there that made it difficult to figure exactly how it did
what it did. For instance I can't even remember if it cut/bent or bent/cut
the leads. In any case the bandoliers are fed in at the top, the crank
pushes then through, the mechano-guts processes the parts, and gravity
delivers.

There are a couple of uses for longer leads. Mainly , they can take the
place of wires.

- In protos it's easier to slip on a piece of insulation to make a
connection with the component lead rather than cut it shorter and attach
'a wire.'

- If a PCB is forced to a double-sided layout because of one or a few
connections then 'zero ohm' resistors are used to make jumps. Or if an
actual circuit part lead can be placed in such a wayas to make the jump
then by all means do so.

Have a :) day!

jb

--
jim barchuk
KILLspamjbspamBeGonespamjbarchuk.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2003\05\07@191215 by Jinx

face picon face
> Hi Jinx

No "!!!" ? Why so glum ? ;-)

>jb

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2003 , 2004 only
- Today
- New search...