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'[EE] US 3-phase wiring colors'
2011\10\28@115125 by Sean Breheny

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O great source of knowledge :)

I am looking for the answer to a question which I have not been able
to find using the Googles on the Interwebs and I am hoping that you
might have the answer.

I have some devices which take 480V, three-phase power and need to be
cord connected, however, they do not come with a cord, you need to
wire that yourself. These are forklift truck battery chargers.

They do not require a neutral connection - inside, there are only four
terminals (X,Y,Z phases and Protective Earth Ground). I want to plug
this in to an L16-20R receptacle (four pin three phase grounded). I
have done this several times before using SO-type cable, 10 or 12
gauge, 4 conductor. Every US UL-listed (non Harmonized) 4 conductor SO
cable I've seen has the following colors in it: green, red, black, and
white. I have been wiring these things using this cable with green as
the PE Ground, and red, black, white as X,Y,Z phases.

Recently, someone pointed out to me that the US National Electrical
Code states that white or gray may never be used as a hot conductor in
a cable (possibly except when household Romex cable is used for
switches and then the white wire needs to be marked with a different
color at each end).

So, when you make a flexible cable for 4-wire, 3-phase, grounded plugs
in the US, what wire colors are you supposed to use? Where can I get
such cable which does not have a white or gray wire in it? It seems
very awkward and wasteful to use 5-wire cable and leave the white wire
unused. The box which the L16-20P plugs come in mentions using 10/4 or
12/4 cable, so they do not seem to anticipate using 5 conductor cable.
They list the colors as green, red, black, blue (or brown), but I've
never seen flexible cable available with this combination of colors.

Can anyone clear this up for me?

Thanks,

Sea

2011\10\28@124034 by Dwayne Reid

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At 09:51 AM 10/28/2011, Sean Breheny wrote:

>I have some devices which take 480V, three-phase power and need to be
>cord connected, however, they do not come with a cord, you need to
>wire that yourself. These are forklift truck battery chargers.

<http://www.3phasepower.org/3phasewiring.htm>

480Vac fixed installations in North America tend to use Brown, Orange, Blue for the phase colors.  Neutral, if needed, is always White.

One common technique when using flexible cord is to use 3M type 35 colored tape to identify the new colors on the wrongly-colored conductors.  Most Electrical Inspectors are happy with that.

Do note that you should (must?) use an appropriately-rated colored tape.  Most Chinese-made imported tape from you local Home Depot is not suitable.  Scotch 3M type 35 colored tape seems to be what the professional electricians that I've worked with use.

dwayne

-- Dwayne Reid   <spam_OUTdwaynerTakeThisOuTspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2011\10\28@124414 by Dwayne Reid

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I knew that I messed up just as soon as I hit the 'Send' button.  I should have said 'Yellow' where I said 'Blue'.  Its fixed up below.

dwayne

At 09:51 AM 10/28/2011, Sean Breheny wrote:

>I have some devices which take 480V, three-phase power and need to be
>cord connected, however, they do not come with a cord, you need to
>wire that yourself. These are forklift truck battery chargers.

<http://www.3phasepower.org/3phasewiring.htm>

480Vac fixed installations in North America tend to use Brown, Orange, Yellow for the phase colors.  Neutral, if needed, is always White.

One common technique when using flexible cord is to use 3M type 35 colored tape to identify the new colors on the wrongly-colored conductors.  Most Electrical Inspectors are happy with that.

Do note that you should (must?) use an appropriately-rated colored tape.  Most Chinese-made imported tape from you local Home Depot is not suitable.  Scotch 3M type 35 colored tape seems to be what the professional electricians that I've worked with use.

dwayne

-- Dwayne Reid   <.....dwaynerKILLspamspam@spam@planet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2011\10\29@093716 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Dwayne Reid wrote:

> I knew that I messed up just as soon as I hit the 'Send' button.  I
> should have said 'Yellow' where I said 'Blue'.  Its fixed up below.
>
> dwayne
>
> At 09:51 AM 10/28/2011, Sean Breheny wrote:
>
>> I have some devices which take 480V, three-phase power and need to be
>> cord connected, however, they do not come with a cord, you need to
>> wire that yourself. These are forklift truck battery chargers.
>
> <www.3phasepower.org/3phasewiring.htm>
>
> 480Vac fixed installations in North America tend to use Brown,
> Orange, Yellow for the phase colors.  Neutral, if needed, is always White..

Since grey doesn't seem to be "occupied" by a different definition, and
the linked source says that the phase colors are not defined, there
should be many cables that fit this (green or green/yellow only for PE,
white only for N).

At least in German-speaking Europe, (gn/ye, br, bk, gy) is a common
cable for 3p wiring without neutral. (Neutral there would be blue.)
Older cables would be (gn/ye, bl, br, bk), which also seems to fit your
needs.

Gerhar

2011\10\29@144124 by Dwayne Reid

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At 07:37 AM 10/29/2011, Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
>
> > <www.3phasepower.org/3phasewiring.htm>
> >
> > 480Vac fixed installations in North America tend to use Brown,
> > Orange, Yellow for the phase colors.  Neutral, if needed, is always White.
>
>Since grey doesn't seem to be "occupied" by a different definition, and
>the linked source says that the phase colors are not defined, there
>should be many cables that fit this (green or green/yellow only for PE,
>white only for N).

Actually, the link that I provided (above) quite clearly says that 480Vac wiring uses the following colors (copied from the table): North America (newer 277/480 installations)
Brown   Orange  Yellow  White   Green

dwayne

-- Dwayne Reid   <dwaynerspamKILLspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2011\10\29@161020 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Dwayne Reid wrote:

> At 07:37 AM 10/29/2011, Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
>>
>>> <www.3phasepower.org/3phasewiring.htm>
>>>
>>> 480Vac fixed installations in North America tend to use Brown,
>>> Orange, Yellow for the phase colors.  Neutral, if needed, is always White.
>>
>>Since grey doesn't seem to be "occupied" by a different definition, and
>>the linked source says that the phase colors are not defined, there
>>should be many cables that fit this (green or green/yellow only for PE,
>>white only for N).
>
> Actually, the link that I provided (above) quite clearly says that
> 480Vac wiring uses the following colors (copied from the table):
> North America (newer 277/480 installations) Brown   Orange  Yellow
> White   Green

FWIW, the part I read says:

"However, the current National Electrical Code (2005) does not require
color identification of conductors other than that of the neutral (white
or white with a color stripe), the ground (green or green with a yellow
stripe), or in the case of a High Leg Delta system, the High Leg must be
identified with orange."

It seems the OP didn't talk about "high leg delta", so I read that as
neutral (white or white/color) and ground (green or green/yellow) are
the only required colors (and therefore presumably not to be used for
anything else) -- and the rest is free to choose.

I don't know from where they get the rest of the information, but this
paragraph seems to be the only one where they cite an official standard.

Gerhar

2011\10\29@162345 by Carl Denk

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> "However, the current National Electrical Code (2005) does not require...
>    If code compliance is important, need to check with the local authorities which code, including year that they are using. It is common for the authorities to take some time, plus the time needed for the new codes to filter down through the bureaucracy.

2011\10\31@104437 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Carl Denk wrote:

>> "However, the current National Electrical Code (2005) does not
>> require...
>>
> If code compliance is important, need to check with the local
> authorities which code, including year that they are using. It is
> common for the authorities to take some time, plus the time needed
> for the new codes to filter down through the bureaucracy.

How does this work when a customer in state 1 and city 2 buys power
equipment from a vendor in state 3 and city 4 and connects it?

I assume that the rules that apply to the connected equipment are the
ones that are in place where the equipment is connected, but what about
the rules that apply to a nation-wide sold equipment?
What kind of code-compliance assurance has the buyer? That the equipment
meets codes at the seller's location? Or is there a federal code that
everything must meet (and that overrides local codes)?

Thanks
Gerhar

2011\10\31@111953 by Isaac Marino Bavaresco

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Em 31/10/2011 12:44, Gerhard Fiedler escreveu:
{Quote hidden}

Here in Brazil, standards are usually published with a schedule of
implantation. First there is an adaptation period within which everybody
is advised to adhere to the standard, after that the standard is
mandatory for everybody.

This period may be years long.


The last major standard adopted here was the IEC 60906-1 (implanted here
as NBR 14136:2002) for wall electrical outlets. The transition period
was approx. eight years. The law was first published in 2002 and the
full compliance deadline was 01/01/2010.


Isaac

2011\10\31@123955 by Carl Denk

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What I had said, primarily applies to building codes for houses, commercial, industrial, etc. building types of applications. Generally that's the extent of the States and lesser (county, city, village, and township) government authority. There generally is a period of time to require compliance with the code. Since these are fixed structures, unless it's something very important to health and safety, retrofit is not required. However if major work is done in the area, changes necessary to bring in compliance with the current standard is required. i.e. a house with 1950 era knob and  tube wiring with 2 prong outlets would not require any work if the wall was painted, but if an wall is added, the new wiring would require current standard wiring which  likely would be Romex (NM) cable or wire in conduit, and the outlet would have the 3rd prong ground feature. This might require replacing the distribution of fuses to circuit breakers, sometimes is not actually required, but done for a safer installation, or practicality reasons.

On 10/31/2011 11:19 AM, Isaac Marino Bavaresco wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2011\10\31@131708 by Carl Denk

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On 10/31/2011 10:44 AM, Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

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