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'[EE] Hiring embedded developers'
2018\02\06@124156 by Denny Esterline

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Yes, I am looking to hire an full-time embedded developer and I'd happily
read any resumes anybody wants to send my way, but this question is really
more about _how_ to hire a embedded developer, what to put in the job
posting and where to list the posting.

I've posted a couple ads, but clearly I'm not doing it "right" as I've been
completely buried by CS people that have zero clue what embedded means.
Even when I explicitly list microcontroller, hardware, board layout, and
electronics experience required, I get Java programmers.

So.... Where do you post when you are looking for embedded developers?

Does anyone have some specific ad copy/key words that you've found helps
focus the response?

Thanks
-Denny
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2018\02\06@130815 by Neil

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face
Wait until you ask for "SMD soldering" and someone clarifies in an interview that their soldering experience is helping their dad weld when working on a car.

The culture nowadays is to just throw out resumes *everywhere* to see what sticks, but people take this to extremes.   It's the "swipe-right" generation. :)

I've found it helpful to ask them to respond with a list of microcontrollers or other specific devices/protocols they've worked on, but it sounds like you're doing that already.

I'd highly recommend you avoid generic job-post sites, especially local lists like Craigslist.  Dice etc is good, but a lot of people expect relocation, etc so make if clear if you don't provide that.
I've found that approaching local groups on meetup, makerspaces, etc are a good way to get the lead out, and it gets to people who know what embedded means.

Where are you located?

Cheers,
-Neil.



On 2/6/2018 12:41 PM, Denny Esterline wrote:
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2018\02\06@132049 by Denny Esterline

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>
>
> Where are you located?
>
>
> Tucson, AZ. (southwest USA, for the international audience)

-Denny
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2018\02\06@134638 by Neil

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So it's easy then... hire one of those CS people to write a virus which would penetrate Microchip's firewall, and email-distribute your ad to all developers there. :D :) ;)



On 2/6/2018 1:20 PM, Denny Esterline wrote:
>>
>> Where are you located?
>>
>>
>> Tucson, AZ. (southwest USA, for the international audience)
> -Denny

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2018\02\06@135255 by Denny Esterline

picon face
Chicken and egg problem, I still need an ad to include as the payload of
the virus. :-)


On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Neil <spam_OUTpicdude3TakeThisOuTspamnarwani.org> wrote:

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2018\02\06@140524 by Van Horn, David

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Or "I used Atrium to design a PCBs"

-----Original Message-----
From: .....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu [piclist-bouncesspamKILLspammit.edu] On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 11:08 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <.....piclistKILLspamspam.....mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [EE] Hiring embedded developers

Wait until you ask for "SMD soldering" and someone clarifies in an interview that their soldering experience is helping their dad weld when working on a car.

The culture nowadays is to just throw out resumes *everywhere* to see what sticks, but people take this to extremes.   It's the "swipe-right" generation. :)

I've found it helpful to ask them to respond with a list of microcontrollers or other specific devices/protocols they've worked on, but it sounds like you're doing that already.

I'd highly recommend you avoid generic job-post sites, especially local lists like Craigslist.  Dice etc is good, but a lot of people expect relocation, etc so make if clear if you don't provide that.
I've found that approaching local groups on meetup, makerspaces, etc are a good way to get the lead out, and it gets to people who know what embedded means.

Where are you located?

Cheers,
-Neil.



On 2/6/2018 12:41 PM, Denny Esterline wrote:
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2018\02\06@140924 by Richard

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Denny,

Have you thought about advertising in Jack Ganssle's newsletter, The Embedded Muse?
You can reach him at EraseMEjackspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTganssle.com <jackspamspam_OUTganssle.com>

I apologize if this was received twice. Sentfrom wrong email the first time..

Richard


On 2/6/2018 12:41 PM, Denny Esterline wrote:
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2018\02\07@171646 by Denny Esterline

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Below is the text of the last posting I let out. I'm still at a loss as to
how it attracted nothing but "big iron" programmers. Any suggestions would
be welcome.

-Denny

Job Description

We are looking to hire an experienced Embedded Firmware Engineer to work as
part of a small engineering team to develop, improve, and maintain *embedded
firmware* written in the *C programming language.*

To be considered for this position, you must have an intimate understanding
of the inner workings of a microcontroller, and the ability to write
software on "bare metal" (OS-less) systems. In the interview, you can
expect to be asked questions about registers, memory maps, ADCs, interrupt
processing, timers, compiler theory, and state machines.

The ideal candidate must have working knowledge of 16/32 bit
microcontrollers, as well as common peripherals and protocols: UART, I2C,
SPI, CAN, LIN, TCP/IP. The candidate would be expected to know how to take
a protocol specification standard, and implement it in firmware.

A strong electronics background is also a must. The candidate must be able
to read schematics, board layouts, and datasheets, as well as use common
hardware debugging tools: oscilloscopes, multimeters, logic analyzers, and
signal generators.



*Principal Duties*

·        Define, clarify and capture project goals & requirements

·        Design, implement, improve, refactor, test, and debug firmware

·        Use an Agile approach to write elegant, reliable, and
self-documenting code

·        Participate in design & code reviews

·        Port existing C code to new platforms

*Qualifications*

*Natural Talents (Required)*

·        Passion for *writing quality code *on *small embedded platforms*

·        Strong *attention to detail *and *analytical/problem-solving*
skills

·        *Out-of-the-box* thinking

·        Staying *focused *and *organized*

·        *Self-motivated*

·        *Excellent communications sills, both written and verbal*

·        *Receptive *to *constructive criticism*



*Skills/Experience (Required)*

·        Writing *C code *for small *16/32-bit micros *(4+ years)

·        Reading *schematics, datasheets* & *protocol specifications*

·        Using *oscilloscope, multimeter, logic analyzer, *and *signal
generator*

*Bonus Skills/Experience (Helpful)*

·        *Microchip PIC, ARM *development experience

·        *Technical writing*

·        Understanding of *CAN BUS*

·        Experience with *WiFi* and *Bluetooth* protocol stacks

·        *TDD*



Salary

The salary range for this position is negotiable, depending on actual
qualifications and experience. We pay above market wages and have a
performance-based system of bonuses and raises.

Benefits

·        Paid *vacation* and *holidays *

·        *Medical, dental and vision b*enefits

·        *Generous 401(k) match*



Perks

·        An opportunity to *learn *and *grow your career*

·        *Flexible schedule *and *work/life balance*

·        *Low stress *atmosphere and *friendly, competent co-workers*

·        *Casual *dress code

·        *This is a full-time position in our Northwest Tucson office*

·        *Relocation assistance may be provided for the right candidate*



Application Process

Email your one-page resume and your project portfolio to @spam@kfyw8why6KILLspamspamgmail.com

Use the body of the email as the cover letter. In the cover letter,

·        Explain why you feel you are the right candidate for this position

·        Give us your salary requirements



We look forward to hearing from you!
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2018\02\07@174444 by Ryan O'Connor

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I would change the wording just slightly:

Instead of "To be considered for this position, you must have an intimate
understanding
of the inner workings of a microcontroller";
Declare: "Must be able to demonstrate an intimate understanding
of the inner workings of a microcontroller.";

That will scare some folks off who may be tempted to talk their way into
the "cool sounding job" which mostly states someone must simply have
knowledge or understanding, but doesn't preempt that they will be tested or
asked to demonstrate this knowledge. From my experience this will put off
many junior developers from applying. Good luck!

Ryan

On 8 February 2018 at 11:16, Denny Esterline <KILLspamdesterlineKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:

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2018\02\07@181358 by Harrison Cooper

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I think it depends on the area, and who is hungry.  We have been looking for a HW engineer for months, in Arizona as well.  And everyone applying comes up short.  Basically those who are employed appear to be happy doing what they are doing, and its hard to get someone to move unless they have good reason.  Even where I am (north of the grand canyon), the job postings for EE/HW/Firmware have been sitting there for months, unfilled.  I've talked to some of those looking to hire (friends in the network) and the same story, where the applicants do not possess the skillset.  And it ranges as well for that skill set.  Some are looking for what Danny is...micro on a board with peripherals, others are using an off the shelf engine such as what Nvidia offers.  So the platform varies.  And someone who can write code for a Pi, isn't always suitable for writing on a PIC.   It’s a good thing for engineers, that we have options.  Its bad for those who NEED the talent and can't lure it in.

Danny, have you checked with the UofA?  Sponsoring an internship? You might think that’s not a good solution, but let me tell you.....I've interviewed jr and sr CS and EE and even ME students that have more hardware experience than some engineers out of school for a few years.  They have been building stuff since high school and they do indeed have the skills.  And even tho its part time while they are going to school, once graduated they have a job and you have someone who knows your products.  Three of the interns I hired, still work here after 4 years.  My first question is always....what do you do in your spare time? What have you built project wise.  The kid who did a surveillance system for his parents house...yeah I hired him.   So that really should be an option to look at.

{Original Message removed}

2018\02\07@182725 by Denny Esterline

picon face
On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 3:44 PM, Ryan O'Connor <spamBeGonerocifierspamBeGonespamgmail.com> wrote:

> I would change the wording just slightly:
>
> Instead of "To be considered for this position, you must have an intimate
> understanding
> of the inner workings of a microcontroller";
> Declare: "Must be able to demonstrate an intimate understanding
> of the inner workings of a microcontroller.";
>
> That will scare some folks off who may be tempted to talk their way into
> the "cool sounding job" which mostly states someone must simply have
> knowledge or understanding, but doesn't preempt that they will be tested or
> asked to demonstrate this knowledge. From my experience this will put off
> many junior developers from applying. Good luck!
>
> Ryan
>


Good point, I'll see about editing it a bit with that more "defensive"
mindset.
-Denny
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2018\02\07@183309 by Denny Esterline

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On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 4:13 PM, Harrison Cooper <TakeThisOuTHarrison.CooperEraseMEspamspam_OUTwdc.com>
wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I'm in an environment where talent and skill can easily overcome lack of
formal training. But how do you write a job posting for that? I'd happily
consider the kid that taught themselves microcontrollers in mom's basement
when he/she was twelve. Writing and ad for that that doesn't also collect
all the "I made a LED throwie once" candidates is also hard.


-Denny
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2018\02\07@193011 by Ryan O'Connor

picon face

That might be simple as putting a degree under "preferred" instead of
"required". The experience is already what you are clearly after in the
posting.

Ryan

On 8 February 2018 at 12:33, Denny Esterline <RemoveMEdesterlinespamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:

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2018\02\09@075708 by David C Brown

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This is the flip side of the complaint that I often hear from recent
graduates:  "I can't get a job because I have no experience and I can't get
experience because I have no job".

The traditional answer to this problem, originating with medieval
craftsmen, is the apprenticeship, where youngsters work for a pittance  as
they learn the craft.  But the cost of hiring any one these days of minimum
wages, holiday pay, pension contributions  etc, make it very difficult for
an employer to take on and train unskilled people.  In the UK there has
been some attempt to address the problem by government subsidies
(unthinkable in the USA, I imagine) to firms who do take on apprentices but
the take up has been pathetic.

The internship system, much denigrated by the liberal press, or similar\
schemes seem to be part of the answer.   My son - now a senior software
engineer with Amazon - took a year out of uni to work at a low salary with
a local firm.  When he graduated they knew him well enough to offer him a
proper job where he rapidly gained enough experience to be able to move on
and up.

None of which is of any help to Denny :-(

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On 8 February 2018 at 00:30, Ryan O'Connor <RemoveMErocifierEraseMEspamEraseMEgmail.com> wrote:

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