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'[EE] 2cell (AA) boost to 5V (TH)'
2006\02\21@212324 by alan smith

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So I have a nice little compact circuit using a Fairchild FAN4855 device, and it works just great....BUT.....my client wants the entire board in thru-hole in order to get it made cheaper (no smt, meaning no oven flow...just fingers sticking parts in a boardI guess....) and this is the only section I haven't come up with a good part to use.
 
 So, asking the collective wisdom.....and no MAXIM parts at all....I do want to be able to produce this....anyone have a low count thru hole design for a 2 AA  battery boost to 5V design.  I would like to be able to disable it via the PIC as well, if possible (whole design goes to sleep)
 

                       
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2006\02\21@220623 by Bob Axtell

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alan smith wrote:

>So I have a nice little compact circuit using a Fairchild FAN4855 device, and it works just great....BUT.....my client wants the entire board in thru-hole in order to get it made cheaper (no smt, meaning no oven flow...just fingers sticking parts in a boardI guess....) and this is the only section I haven't come up with a good part to use.
>  
>  So, asking the collective wisdom.....and no MAXIM parts at all....I do want to be able to produce this....anyone have a low count thru hole design for a 2 AA  battery boost to 5V design.  I would like to be able to disable it via the PIC as well, if possible (whole design goes to sleep)
>  
>
>                        
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What I would like to know is... who told him thruhole is cheaper? Facts
are that SMT handles vibration better (exception- connectors) than leaded
parts. And almost NOBODY will take on a T/H assembly task anymore..

Olin has a slick design using PIC10Fxxx that performs switched regulation...
oops that is SMT, methinks.

--Bob

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2006\02\21@220713 by Marcel Duchamp

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alan smith wrote:
> So I have a nice little compact circuit using a Fairchild FAN4855 device, and it works just great....BUT.....my client wants the entire board in thru-hole in order to get it made cheaper (no smt, meaning no oven flow...just fingers sticking parts in a boardI guess....) and this is the only section I haven't come up with a good part to use.
>    
>   So, asking the collective wisdom.....and no MAXIM parts at all....I do want to be able to produce this....anyone have a low count thru hole design for a 2 AA  battery boost to 5V design.  I would like to be able to disable it via the PIC as well, if possible (whole design goes to sleep)
>    
>
>                        
> ---------------------------------
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How many amps?

2006\02\21@225527 by Harold Hallikainen

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{Quote hidden}

I used a TI charge pump chip to do a pair of AAs to 3.3V. I was impressed
that it could deliver 200mA. They may have something that will do 5V. This
was SMT. You may have difficulty finding anything through hole. Many newer
chips are not offered in through hole packages.

Good luck!

Harold

--
FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com

2006\02\21@232722 by Gaston Gagnon

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alan smith wrote:

>So I have a nice little compact circuit using a Fairchild FAN4855 device, and it works just great....BUT.....my client wants the entire board in thru-hole in order to get it made cheaper (no smt, meaning no oven flow...just fingers sticking parts in a boardI guess....) and this is the only section I haven't come up with a good part to use.
>  
>  So, asking the collective wisdom.....and no MAXIM parts at all....I do want to be able to produce this....anyone have a low count thru hole design for a 2 AA  battery boost to 5V design.  I would like to be able to disable it via the PIC as well, if possible (whole design goes to sleep)
>  
>
>                        
>---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>  
>
http://bobblick.com/3cell/


2006\02\21@233633 by Mike Hord

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> http://bobblick.com/3cell/

I LOVE the picture.  I need to build that just so people can see it
on my desk and ask "What the HELL is that monstrosity?"

C'mon, Bob.  Perfboard's just not that much fun.

Mike H.

2006\02\22@005743 by alan smith

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The current draw is pretty small....its driving an x2 audio amp, so its in the milliwatts.
 
 Now, to answer the question of who said TH is cheaper?  Well....not to be condensending toward those in Asia, but take a look at most cheap electronics that cost only $10 or less.  The boards are almost always completly TH, because the labor is very cheap to install leaded parts into a board....it goes down an assembly line where each person is resonsible for one or two parts...thats all they do.  Day in...day out.  Yes....its the same actually for large assemblers too...Arima makes motherboards.....and the line flow is that.....the girls sit there quiet and motionless until a board arrives and they put one or two parts in....after its been reflowed.
 
 So....given the fact that no pick n place is required, just sticking parts into a board, its cheaper.  Sure, vibration and size are better for SMT, but hand labor is dirt cheap.  I've had the board quoted with a mix of SMT/TH, now its being turned and getting quoted for just TH.
 
 And...thanks for the 'BOB BLOB' circuit....should look better on a board I would think?

                       
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2006\02\22@023633 by Chen Xiao Fan

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: .....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu
> [piclist-bouncesspamKILLspammit.edu] On Behalf Of alan smith
>
>   Now, to answer the question of who said TH is cheaper?  
> Well....not to be condensending toward those in Asia, but
> take a look at most cheap electronics that cost only $10 or
> less.  The boards are almost always completly TH, because the
> labor is very cheap to install leaded parts into a
> board....it goes down an assembly line where each person is
> resonsible for one or two parts...thats all they do.  Day
> in...day out.  Yes....its the same actually for large
> assemblers too...Arima makes motherboards.....and the line
> flow is that.....the girls sit there quiet and motionless
> until a board arrives and they put one or two parts
> in....after its been reflowed.

Actually this is quite true. Lots of the cheap boards are
completely PTH and quite some of them are single-sided.
I have seen quite some plants like this in China.

Just one minor correction: after the manual insertion,
the boards go to *wave* soldering machines but some parts
still require manual soldering. Quite some time ago I
even saw production lines without wave soldering, all
components were manually inserted and soldered.

Here in Singapore the labor cost is much higher than
mainland China. Therefore our designs are using mostly
SMT components whenever possible. The PTH components
are either manually soldered or wave soldered depending
on the quantity of the PTH components.

Still I find there are more and more plants in China
offering SMT service. Even some small MCU tools
vendor in China are using SMT now. For example, I
got an ICD2 clone from China and it is using mostly
SMT components. The vendor even offered kits with SMT
components some time ago. It is a bit strange that
PICs (especially 18F) are actually quite expensive
in China. Many SMT components are also not cheap in
China at small quantities. I think mostly this is
because there are too many middle men in between.

Regards,
Xiaofan





2006\02\22@043550 by Alan B. Pearce

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>So I have a nice little compact circuit using a Fairchild
>FAN4855 device, and it works just great....BUT.....my
>client wants the entire board in thru-hole in order to get
>it made cheaper (no smt, meaning no oven flow...just
>fingers sticking parts in a boardI guess....) and this is
>the only section I haven't come up with a good part to use.
>
>  So, asking the collective wisdom.....and no MAXIM parts
>at all....I do want to be able to produce this....anyone
>have a low count thru hole design for a 2 AA  battery
>boost to 5V design.  I would like to be able to disable it
>via the PIC as well, if possible (whole design goes to sleep)

I will be surprised if you do find a Th chip that will do that, as most
items wanting to do what you are doing want to be as small as possible.

I would also wonder where he is getting them made that TH is cheaper than
SMD.

However try looking through the Linear Technology range, they have a number
of boost chips that operate in that voltage range.

2006\02\22@050416 by William Chops Westfield

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On Feb 22, 2006, at 1:35 AM, Alan B. Pearce wrote:

>> anyone
>> have a low count thru hole design for a 2 AA  battery
>> boost to 5V design.  I would like to be able to disable it
>> via the PIC as well, if possible
>
> I will be surprised if you do find a Th chip that will do that, as
> most items wanting to do what you are doing want to be as small as
> possible.
>
TI TL499A is available in DIP8...  Not "modern technology"
by most measures.  It doesn't look like it has a shutdown
input, either...

BillW

2006\02\22@051828 by Russell McMahon

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>  So, asking the collective wisdom.....and no MAXIM parts at all....I
> do want to be able to produce this....anyone have a low count thru
> hole design for a 2 AA  battery boost to 5V design.  I would like to
> be able to disable it via the PIC as well, if possible (whole design
> goes to sleep)


Ye olde TL499
Crying out to be used here.
1V in min
Very low parts count.
(Inductor, 2R, some caps)
Low cost IC.
DIP8 or SOIC
Still available!!! (Digikey and many more)
Far cheaper than modern alternatives.

LM393. (2 volt rated)
One comparator self oscillates and other rings an inductor and
regulates with a Zener to turn it off when Vout OK.
Glue count a bit high.

CD40106 (marginal on voltage in)
May need a transistor as well.
I use this for a battery to 5v supply in a cost critical application.
Very low no load operating current relative to LM393 and TL499
designs. (<<100 uA with care).

Ye also olde MC34063
3V in min.
Very flexible.

1 and 2 transistor self oscillators as used in eg solar path lights.
(Reverse engineered circuits cost $3 ish at your local WalMart). Some
use tapped L's which is annoying. One I've seen uses dual independent
L's. Some use 1 L and magic.

Joule Thief type approach - similar to solar light designs - basic JT
design is too crude for serious use.

Send key spec and enough $US for finished prototype :-)



       RM


2006\02\22@072429 by olin piclist

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Bob Axtell wrote:
> Olin has a slick design using PIC10Fxxx that performs switched
> regulation... oops that is SMT, methinks.

I've used 10Fs a lot as simple switching power supply controllers, and there
is a good chance I'll be teaching a course on this subject at Masters this
summer.  A 10F204 is generally cheaper than a dedicated analog chip, and you
get other useful features that are either missing or don't work the way you
want on dedicated chips.  These include startup delay, special voltage
startup handling, guaranteed min/max switching element on time, and power
good output.

A basic example is in the buck regulator of the QuickProto-01,
http://www.embedinc.com/products/qprot01.

Yes, this circuit is SMT because that's a no-brainer today.  It takes less
space, the parts are more available, and it costs less to populate the
boards.  The only remaining purposes for thru hole are for mechanical
strength and for prototyping where the expense and board space of a socketed
DIP IC is worth the flexibility, for example.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\02\22@122356 by Peter Todd

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On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 10:36:32PM -0600, Mike Hord wrote:
> > http://bobblick.com/3cell/
>
> I LOVE the picture.  I need to build that just so people can see it
> on my desk and ask "What the HELL is that monstrosity?"
>
> C'mon, Bob.  Perfboard's just not that much fun.

A neat trick I use sometimes is to build circuits like that, and hook
the inputs and outputs to standard brass standoffs. Brass solders well,
so you get a good secure connection.

The trick, is to then embed the whole lot in epoxy, leaving you with an
indestructable circuit with some nice ways to hook things up to it via
the standoffs.

Just be carefull if you use off-the-shelf adhesive epoxy... It releases
heat upon curing... A *lot* of heat. Last time I did that, I was very
glad I'm in canada and had ready access to a snowbank...

--
.....peteKILLspamspam.....petertodd.ca http://www.petertodd.ca

2006\02\22@124732 by Alan B. Pearce

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> > http://bobblick.com/3cell/
>
> I LOVE the picture.  I need to build that just so people can see it
> on my desk and ask "What the HELL is that monstrosity?"
>
> C'mon, Bob.  Perfboard's just not that much fun.

When I was an apprentice someone built a similar arrangement that had three
flipflops made from discrete components. Had it hanging from the ceiling by
the power wires. With a lamp bulb in each transistor collector the six bulbs
looked like they were flashing randomly, even though it was three stages of
divide by two.

2006\02\22@124830 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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{Quote hidden}

Also tricky to fix it if you do blow it up....

Mike

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2006\02\22@135316 by Howard Winter

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Bob,

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:06:23 -0700, Bob Axtell wrote:

> Olin has a slick design using PIC10Fxxx that performs
switched regulation...
> oops that is SMT, methinks.

Olin's design is, but 10Fs can be had in 8-pin T/H "for
development" (two pins are wasted, obviously).

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\02\22@142052 by Bob Blick

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On 21 Feb 2006 at 22:36, Mike Hord wrote:

> > http://bobblick.com/3cell/
>
> I LOVE the picture.  I need to build that just so people can see it
> on my desk and ask "What the HELL is that monstrosity?"
>
> C'mon, Bob.  Perfboard's just not that much fun.

I should point out that as shown, it doesn't qualify as "through hole" :)

Cheerful regards,

Bob

2006\02\23@132624 by Dmitriy Kiryashov

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Hi Olin.

Just out of curiocity how that QuickProto-01
circuit is conditioning 12 volt automotive
power especially pulse 5 dump ? :)


WBR Dmitry.



Olin Lathrop wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\02\23@184658 by olin piclist

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Dmitriy Kiryashov wrote:
> Just out of curiocity how that QuickProto-01
> circuit is conditioning 12 volt automotive
> power especially pulse 5 dump ? :)

It's not terribly sophisticated, but it should be good enough for the
purpose.  The optional part in the box on page 1 of the schematic is
essentially a power zener.  It works against the 3ohm resistor R1 to limit
the voltage to a safe level for the rest of the circuit.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

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