Post by thread:[EE]: Car MP3 player. (oh no, again!!!)

Hello people, I'm looking for a new CD-player for my car but I'm seriously thinking about spending some time doing my own Car-MP3-player. My idea is to use one of that little single board computers (SBC) with one AWE64 sound card, one HD and displaying the informations on an 4x40 44780 LCD. The keys would simply be switches attached to the printer port with the LCD. Well, I'm looking for some DOS based MP3 players and there is many that could do the job. Probably there's someone that made a player with support for LCD and switches on parallel port. The biggest problem seens to found a SBC (486DX4-100 would do) that I could buy cheaply and only one unit. Someone here knows where can I buy a 486 SBC on an ISA card format? Thank you very much, Brusque ----------------------------------- Edson Brusque Research and Development C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda Blumenau - SC - Brazil http://www.citronics.com.br Say NO to HTML mail ----------------------------------- -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Hi Brusque, Just too let you know, You can build your own player with a PIC! Not simple, but can be done. I'm nearing the end of a development process for a client where I've made an MP3 player using a PIC16F877 (20MHz) a Compact Flash card for storage (reading FAT16) streaming the MP3 data to a STA013 mpeg decoder IC. I've written all the code in C, no optimisation and it happily plays 128Kbps MP3s which are more then good enough for a car sound system and much better then my clients needs. A 64MB CF card will hold about a CD's worth at the 128Kbps data rate and you can get bigger ones and IBM micro-drives that pretend to be CF cards in the 1GB range.. Unfortunately, I'm not able to give much detail because it is a commercial project for a client, but I thought some on the list may be interested to know it can be done.. :) Others have probably already done it.. :) If you have any specific questions about it I'll try to answer them.. Actually If anyone is interested I might be able to adapt this system (if my client agrees) to a kit so you can build your own car MP3 player.. It is all surface mount though :) Any takers? Cheers, Ash --- Ashley Roll Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd http://www.digitalnemesis.com Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718 > {Original Message removed}

your mileage may vary, but i was unable to get enough horsepower out of my 486-133 using some of the dos mp3 players that i found on the net. until i went to a p75 smooth mp3 was not to be had with the software and sound card i had you might have better success than me though. moose On February 7, 2002 03:37 pm, you wrote: {Quote hidden}> Hello people, > > I'm looking for a new CD-player for my car but I'm seriously thinking > about spending some time doing my own Car-MP3-player. > > My idea is to use one of that little single board computers (SBC) with > one AWE64 sound card, one HD and displaying the informations on an 4x40 > 44780 LCD. The keys would simply be switches attached to the printer port > with the LCD. > > Well, I'm looking for some DOS based MP3 players and there is many that > could do the job. Probably there's someone that made a player with support > for LCD and switches on parallel port. > > The biggest problem seens to found a SBC (486DX4-100 would do) that I > could buy cheaply and only one unit. Someone here knows where can I buy a > 486 SBC on an ISA card format? > > Thank you very much, > > Brusque > > ----------------------------------- > Edson Brusque > Research and Development > C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda > Blumenau - SC - Brazil > http://www.citronics.com.br > Say NO to HTML mail > ----------------------------------- > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

DOS? Yuck! Don't you have a hard drive size limit and 8.3 names? I have full code(PC side and PIC side) if you want to use Linux and a serial port. There are some 486 boards that just plain will not work, something about DMA really interferes with being an MP3 player. I'd suggest an LPX-format socket-7 motherboard, you can get them for $15 and have onboard good-quality sound, video, etc, in a small format. Cheers, Bob Blick {Quote hidden}> I'm looking for a new CD-player for my car but I'm seriously thinking > about spending some time doing my own Car-MP3-player. > > My idea is to use one of that little single board computers (SBC) with > one AWE64 sound card, one HD and displaying the informations on an 4x40 > 44780 LCD. The keys would simply be switches attached to the printer port > with the LCD. > > Well, I'm looking for some DOS based MP3 players and there is many that > could do the job. Probably there's someone that made a player with support > for LCD and switches on parallel port. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

try http://www.mp3ar.com this is a public mp3 player project using a PIC16F877. All the source and pcb info is available, and I am happy to say the player works well :) cheers Edson Brusque wrote: {Quote hidden}> > Hello people, > > I'm looking for a new CD-player for my car but I'm seriously thinking > about spending some time doing my own Car-MP3-player. > > My idea is to use one of that little single board computers (SBC) with > one AWE64 sound card, one HD and displaying the informations on an 4x40 > 44780 LCD. The keys would simply be switches attached to the printer port > with the LCD. > > Well, I'm looking for some DOS based MP3 players and there is many that > could do the job. Probably there's someone that made a player with support > for LCD and switches on parallel port. > > The biggest problem seens to found a SBC (486DX4-100 would do) that I > could buy cheaply and only one unit. Someone here knows where can I buy a > 486 SBC on an ISA card format? > > Thank you very much, > > Brusque > > ----------------------------------- > Edson Brusque > Research and Development > C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda > Blumenau - SC - Brazil > http://www.citronics.com.br > Say NO to HTML mail > ----------------------------------- > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics DSP Systems (a division of SPC-Ardmona Limited). [MMII] -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

I'm not sure whether you want the sound or the project, but I recall some fellows in England did this about 2 years ago. They offered it up as a product and if I recall correctly they used a PIC as the front panel controller. All seems very fuzzy right at the moment .... if I remember the site, and they're still around, I'll post again. Cheers, Kevin Edson Brusque wrote: {Quote hidden}> Hello people, > > I'm looking for a new CD-player for my car but I'm seriously thinking > about spending some time doing my own Car-MP3-player. > > My idea is to use one of that little single board computers (SBC) with > one AWE64 sound card, one HD and displaying the informations on an 4x40 > 44780 LCD. The keys would simply be switches attached to the printer port > with the LCD. > > Well, I'm looking for some DOS based MP3 players and there is many that > could do the job. Probably there's someone that made a player with support > for LCD and switches on parallel port. > > The biggest problem seens to found a SBC (486DX4-100 would do) that I > could buy cheaply and only one unit. Someone here knows where can I buy a > 486 SBC on an ISA card format? > > Thank you very much, > > Brusque > > ----------------------------------- > Edson Brusque > Research and Development > C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda > Blumenau - SC - Brazil > http://www.citronics.com.br > Say NO to HTML mail > ----------------------------------- > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics > > > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

btw: this thing runs on a pent75. i use the mpxplay dos mp3 player: http://mpxplay.tripod.com/ there is a frontend called mpxf: http://www.radioactivesoft.com the frontend requires mpxplayer 1.42 and is able to run an lcd at the parallel port, and an ir2pc compatible remote control at the serialport. if you need a modified version of the mpxf, able to run with mpxplayer 1.43 or higher, write a mail to spam_OUTmbsdTakeThisOuTgmx.ch with 'send mpxf' in the subject line. tino Edson Brusque <.....ebrusqueKILLspam@spam@TERRA.COM.BR> Gesendet von: pic microcontroller discussion list <PICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> 08.02.02 00:37 Bitte antworten an pic microcontroller discussion list An: .....PICLISTKILLspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU Kopie: Thema: [EE]: Car MP3 player. (oh no, again!!!) Hello people, I'm looking for a new CD-player for my car but I'm seriously thinking about spending some time doing my own Car-MP3-player. My idea is to use one of that little single board computers (SBC) with one AWE64 sound card, one HD and displaying the informations on an 4x40 44780 LCD. The keys would simply be switches attached to the printer port with the LCD. Well, I'm looking for some DOS based MP3 players and there is many that could do the job. Probably there's someone that made a player with support for LCD and switches on parallel port. The biggest problem seens to found a SBC (486DX4-100 would do) that I could buy cheaply and only one unit. Someone here knows where can I buy a 486 SBC on an ISA card format? Thank you very much, Brusque ----------------------------------- Edson Brusque Research and Development C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda Blumenau - SC - Brazil http://www.citronics.com.br Say NO to HTML mail ----------------------------------- -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

On Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 01:40:43PM -0000, Michael Rigby-Jones wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bob Blick [SMTP:@spam@bblickKILLspamSONIC.NET] > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:16 AM > > To: KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU > > Subject: Re: [EE]: Car MP3 player. (oh no, again!!!) > > > > DOS? Yuck! Don't you have a hard drive size limit and 8.3 names? I > > have full code(PC side and PIC side) if you want to use Linux and a > > serial port. > > > Nice thing about DOS is that you can happily power up and down with vritualy > no chance of causing any HD corruption. Linux is a bit of a fscking > nuisance in that respect :o) Dos will also boot in a couple of seconds > which is handy if you just want to turn on and get some music out of the > thing. This looks like a good opportunity to talk about my Linux based setup. I use several tools to handle the power up/power down issue. First all the HD partitions are mounted read only. All of the variable partitions (/tmp and /var) are located on a ramdisk. So it can be powered down with extreme prejudice and laugh at you. My plan is to use a IDE Zip drive for transport. They're a steal at $29 a pop and can autoeject the disk without pushing out a tray. 100MB will usually get you two CD's worth of music which is about the frequency I transfer anyway. I found the most annoying thing about booting in a car is the battery drop during starting. So I have a micro UPS consisting of a 12V gel cell that carries the system for the few seconds that the car is starting. The last interesting item which I haven't implemented yet is LinuxBIOS. Essentially you flash a modified Linux kernel onto the motherboard which boots directly without all the pesky POST/memory sequences that standard BIOSes have. Boots to a running state in less than 10 seconds and can be powered down with impunity. Check it out at http://www.linuxbios.org. By far the toughest part for everyone (except for Bob, Roman, and Russell ;-) is the power supply. I've learned a bunch about both switching and linear supplies in the last year. I'm in the final stages of my switching 5V (based on Russell's design) LDO linear 12V (based on Roman's suggestions) for powering the beast. I'm ripping a stack of CD's for it even as we speak. Edson, I haven't yet found a cost effective SBC for this project. My small box is a Baby-AT Socket 7 MB with onboard sound, video, and ethernet, using a 450 Mhz AMD K6. It's mounted in a 11x16x2 inch organizing case with the removable buckets. This houses the MB, 13GB HD, and the zip. The power supply will be external to the case. Of course it'll have a PIC based, serial interfaced, control panel. Eventually it'll interface to a yet to be written program that will interface with a set of scripts that I've written to control the play mix on my home PC MP3 player. Commands such as skip, repeat, and find are already in the arsenal. Normal mode is to play a continuous random playlist. The thought of having over 200 CDs worth of music at my fingertips in the car is quite pleasing. Good Luck on your project. BAJ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Michael Rigby-Jones wrote: > > > Nice thing about DOS is that you can happily power up and down with vritualy > no chance of causing any HD corruption. Linux is a bit of a fscking > nuisance in that respect :o) Dos will also boot in a couple of seconds > which is handy if you just want to turn on and get some music out of the > thing. ext3 filesystem is much more tolerant of that. Having 100MB ethernet is nice too, so you don't have to yank the thing out of the car each time you want to change something. I certainly see the point of a DOS player, but the really cool ones use Linux :) Mine takes 40 seconds to boot, waits 10 minutes when the car is shut offbefore powering down gracefully(the 10 minutes is to let you buy a pack of smokes or get gas without rebooting). Cheers, Bob -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Even easier is to simply mount the filesystem read-only when in "Play" mode... > Nice thing about DOS is that you can happily power up and down with > vritualy no chance of causing any HD corruption. Linux is a bit of a > fscking nuisance in that respect :o) Dos will also boot in a couple > of seconds which is handy if you just want to turn on and get some > music out of the thing. ext3 filesystem is much more tolerant of that. Having 100MB ethernet is nice too, so you don't have to yank the thing out of the car each time you want to change something. I certainly see the point of a DOS player, but the really cool ones use Linux :) Mine takes 40 seconds to boot, waits 10 minutes when the car is shut offbefore powering down gracefully(the 10 minutes is to let you buy a pack of smokes or get gas without rebooting). Cheers, Bob -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

> > Mine takes 40 seconds to boot, waits 10 minutes when > the car is shut > offbefore powering down gracefully(the 10 minutes is > to let you buy a > pack of smokes or get gas without rebooting). > Ok this is a microcontroller list, and you're not using embedded linux ? Boots in 30sec's I still think the PC in a car version (PC104 or singleboard) is a bit overkill to get MP3's to play. With the hardware out there to play MP3's (STA or Micronas) and the DAC's, simply outputting from a PIC or SX to the MP3 decoder, well that's fashionable small, low power and fast booting. And if you put a smart media or CF device on the other side WOW. lite, tight and outta site. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

I am sure your client wont want to lose business on this, so how about just releasing the pic code, and basic layout cause that is enough for most picsters who would do this project anyway, but not enough to take clients away from your client. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Roll" <spamBeGoneashspamBeGoneDIGITALNEMESIS.COM> To: <TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [EE]: Car MP3 player. (oh no, again!!!) > Hi Brusque, > > Just too let you know, You can build your own player with a PIC! Not simple, > but can be done. > > I'm nearing the end of a development process for a client where I've made an > MP3 player using a PIC16F877 (20MHz) a Compact Flash card for storage > (reading FAT16) streaming the MP3 data to a STA013 mpeg decoder IC. I've > written all the code in C, no optimisation and it happily plays 128Kbps MP3s > which are more then good enough for a car sound system and much better then > my clients needs. > > A 64MB CF card will hold about a CD's worth at the 128Kbps data rate and you > can get bigger ones and IBM micro-drives that pretend to be CF cards in the > 1GB range.. > > Unfortunately, I'm not able to give much detail because it is a commercial > project for a client, but I thought some on the list may be interested to > know it can be done.. :) Others have probably already done it.. :) > > If you have any specific questions about it I'll try to answer them.. > > Actually If anyone is interested I might be able to adapt this system (if my > client agrees) to a kit so you can build your own car MP3 player.. It is all {Quote hidden}> surface mount though :) Any takers? > > Cheers, > Ash > > --- > Ashley Roll > Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd > http://www.digitalnemesis.com > Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718 > > > > > > {Original Message removed}

Hi Aaron, Unfortunately the code is exactly what I need to ask them about, basically they paid me to write it so they own it.. giving it away is not the done thing ;) The circuit is pieced together basically from example circuits and datasheets.. The only tricky thing in the circuit is the 5V logic conversion to 3V logic for the STA013 and DAC. For that I used to scheme that Philips recommends for doing this on IIC using a small mosfet. To tell you the truth, the hardest bit is the parsing of the FAT16 file system! the rest is all available in the datasheets and other example web sites. I would redesign the circuit if I was going to do anything (haven't mentioned it to them yet) because the system I developed for them has a bunch of extra features that are specific to their requirements and are not needed for normal players.. Thing is that there are already a bunch of good quality kit MP3 players out there.. I'm not sure it will be worth my while to do this. If you interested in building one here are the basic bits. This is by no means on the only way.. but I've successfully used them and it isn't too difficult once you get the basics (IIC, fast serial driver, CF interface and FAT16 parser) going. You just initialise the STA013 using data in the EEPROM (data comes from ST for the decoder) then monitor the STA013's "feed me data" line and stream it chunks of MP3 data straight from the CF card.. The circuit basically consists of: PIC16F877 20Mhz CF card, interfaced to the pic in 8 bit mode using register only access 24LC64 EEPROM to store settings and about 4K worth of initialisation data for the STA013 STA013 from http://www.st.com CS4331-KS DAC from Cirrus logic / Crystal. or any number of other DACs. LCD module and some switches.. I also included a switch mode PSU using a L5970D, and a 3V LDO regulator LE33CD both also from ST. If your thinking of playing with this be aware that almost all of this is surface mount only and the compact flash connector will have very fine pitch pins to connect too on your PCB. You will need to get boards made unless you can find someone that makes an adaptor PCB. --- Ashley Roll Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd http://www.digitalnemesis.com Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718 > {Original Message removed}

I am not familiar with the PC104 concept... As far as the wireless thing goes its not that expensive A radiocard is just $60-ish. I already have a few around. Unfortunately a car is made of metal so I think the antenna must be on the car roof. One disavantage to using a PC that I see is that its big, clumsy and the powerreq. is complicated. Where to hide it ? Not sure how sensitive the PC/harddrive is to a temperature range of -30 to +50 celcius or vibrations? > Well you're wanting to go PC104 then, withthe pcmcia > card. Easy enough. costly enough > Keith > > Id like to see a wireless NIC added to the player so > > I can see my 'car' in the network and manage (ul/dl files) > > my mp3 collection remotely from my LAN once I have > > parked in the range of my wireless basestation. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList piclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseME.....mitvma.mit.edu

On Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 10:39:34AM -0800, Keith Christopher wrote: > > > > Mine takes 40 seconds to boot, waits 10 minutes when > > the car is shut > > offbefore powering down gracefully(the 10 minutes is > > to let you buy a > > pack of smokes or get gas without rebooting). > > > > Ok this is a microcontroller list, and you're not using embedded linux ? > Boots in 30sec's If you turn off the massive testing in the BIOS, normal Linux boots in about the same amount of time to a virtual terminal. And who needs X when the device has no monitor? > > > I still think the PC in a car version (PC104 or singleboard) is a bit > overkill to get MP3's to play. With the hardware out there to play MP3's > (STA or Micronas) and the DAC's, simply outputting from a PIC or SX to the > MP3 decoder, well that's fashionable small, low power and fast booting. The only problem is that you've turned it from a systems integration job with commodity components into a systems development job. On the PC side all of the hardware is built and tested, and all of the software is developed and tested. It's little more than integrating in a smaller case and providing power. Building from scratch is much tougher. The publicMP3 that was metioned in this thread is a great help, because all the development has been done. But frankly if one is willing to live with an inverter/regular power supply to power the beast, it's a weekend job. > > > And if you put a smart media or CF device on the other side WOW. lite, > tight and outta site. Only problem is that it isn't enought media. I finally figured out that a music collection is like the Internet: it reaches it ultimate capability when it becomes ubiquitous. My current ripped collection is about 8.5GB and I have another 30-35 CD's to do. And it is a nonnegotioable requirement for me that I'm able to carry the entire collection. It's not a requirement that my unit be portable from the vechicle, only that it fits in the vechicle. So a 20-30GB HD, even in a 3.5in form factor, works fine for me. As for overkill, I'm now thinking ahead to adding an LCD screen and Tivo/DVD functionality. Again it's only a systems integration issue since all the software and hardware componenets are commodity. Personally I don't think that a PC is overkill. It's not only the correct and most cost effective unit for this task, but has natural expansion capabilities. BAJ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestmitvma.mit.edu

On Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 12:23:52PM +0100, Patrick J wrote: > I am not familiar with the PC104 concept... Standard PC technology in a smaller, stackable form factor. Check out http://www.pc104.com/whatis.html For an overview. > > As far as the wireless thing goes its not that expensive > A radiocard is just $60-ish. I already have a few around. > Unfortunately a car is made of metal so I think the antenna > must be on the car roof. > > One disavantage to using a PC that I see is that its big, > clumsy and the powerreq. is complicated. Where to hide it ? Fortunately I have large vehicles (minivan, Yukon XL. It fits under the seats. For a smaller vechicle you'll have to consider a trunk mounted unit. > Not sure how sensitive the PC/harddrive is to a temperature > range of -30 to +50 celcius or vibrations? Temp in the cabin hasn't been a problem. PC's seems to do OK in all environments humans tolerate. IIRC Bob Blick has been running his unit for almost three years with no problems. As for vibrations, absolutely no problems on road. Not even the occasional pothole causes a glitch. No clue about offroad though. BAJ {Quote hidden}> > > > Well you're wanting to go PC104 then, withthe pcmcia > > card. Easy enough. costly enough > > Keith > > > > Id like to see a wireless NIC added to the player so > > > I can see my 'car' in the network and manage (ul/dl files) > > > my mp3 collection remotely from my LAN once I have > > > parked in the range of my wireless basestation. > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList > RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTKILLspammitvma.mit.edu > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu

Hello Byron, > Standard PC technology in a smaller, stackable form factor. Check out > http://www.pc104.com/whatis.html > For an overview. I believe a PC/104 computer would be the best thing to make a car-mp3-player. It could even work with a GPS and other things. Would be a very cool thing to have with you when you're driving. The problem is, as always, cost. An MZ104-1MB (MachZ [kind of 586-on-a-chip] based PC/104 Computer, 2 serial, 1 parallel, 1 USB, E-IDE, 1mb BIOS flash, 0K SDRAM) costs about US$249. This is too much. Something like US$100 would be more tolarable. Best regards, Brusque ----------------------------------- Edson Brusque Research and Development C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda Blumenau - SC - Brazil http://www.citronics.com.br Say NO to HTML mail ----------------------------------- -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu

You can get (but thinking the CPU won't be grunty enough) a 386-40MHz WITH LAN for US$120 from Abia technologies http://www.abiatech.com/fb2310.htm Or alternatively ... http://www.abiatech.com/fb2650.htm 5.25" Socket 370 w/ 4 Com ports, VGA/LCD, 2 10/100 LANs, Audio, TV I/O, DOC, USB, 1 PCI slot, $288.40 - need CPU, Power supply, HDD >>> RemoveMEebrusqueKILLspamTERRA.COM.BR 02/10/02 02:37PM >>> Hello Byron, > Standard PC technology in a smaller, stackable form factor. Check out > http://www.pc104.com/whatis.html > For an overview. I believe a PC/104 computer would be the best thing to make a car-mp3-player. It could even work with a GPS and other things. Would be a very cool thing to have with you when you're driving. The problem is, as always, cost. An MZ104-1MB (MachZ [kind of 586-on-a-chip] based PC/104 Computer, 2 serial, 1 parallel, 1 USB, E-IDE, 1mb BIOS flash, 0K SDRAM) costs about US$249. This is too much. Something like US$100 would be more tolarable. Best regards, Brusque ----------------------------------- Edson Brusque Research and Development C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda Blumenau - SC - Brazil http://www.citronics.com.br Say NO to HTML mail ----------------------------------- -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList piclist-unsubscribe-requestSTOPspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Only 128kbps, I am getting 192kbps with a 68HC11 design, and the HC11 is very slow compared to a 20Mhz PIC? Sounds odd this low. This is a 68HC11 bit banging the interface, so its a true single chip design! 68hc11 @ 8Mhz = 1MIPS PIC @ 20Mhz = 20MIPS right? My 68HC11 does both FAT32 and FAT16 on CF or HD at 192Kbps max. I have a AT90S4414 design doing the same at full 320kbps and thats all done in less than 256 bytes ram! Richard. >> Hi Brusque, >> Just too let you know, You can build your own player with a PIC! Not >> simple, >> but can be done. >> I'm nearing the end of a development process for a client where I've made >> an >> MP3 player using a PIC16F877 (20MHz) a Compact Flash card for storage >> (reading FAT16) streaming the MP3 data to a STA013 mpeg decoder IC. I've >> written all the code in C, no optimisation and it happily plays 128Kbps >> MP3s >> which are more then good enough for a car sound system and much better >> then >> my clients needs. >> A 64MB CF card will hold about a CD's worth at the 128Kbps data rate and >> you >> can get bigger ones and IBM micro-drives that pretend to be CF cards in >> the >> 1GB range.. >> Unfortunately, I'm not able to give much detail because it is a commercial >> project for a client, but I thought some on the list may be interested to >> know it can be done.. :) Others have probably already done it.. :) >> If you have any specific questions about it I'll try to answer them.. >> Actually If anyone is interested I might be able to adapt this system (if >> my >> client agrees) to a kit so you can build your own car MP3 player.. It is >> all >> surface mount though :) Any takers? >> Cheers, >> Ash >> --- >> Ashley Roll >> Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd >> http://www.digitalnemesis.com >> Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718 >> > {Original Message removed}

The website lists drivers for the following - I am presuming the 3.11 drivers will work for DOS Prob best to get in touch with them to find out for sure. VGA Win95/98/NT, OS2, Win2000, Linux LAN Novell 3.X/4.X, Win95/98/NT, Win2000, OS2 Linux NDIS MSLAN, Linux Audio Win2000, Win95/98/NT, Win 3.1, OS2 >>> spamBeGoneebrusqueSTOPspamEraseMETERRA.COM.BR 02/11/02 12:33PM >>> Hello Eoin, >http://www.abiatech.com/fb2650.htm >5.25" Socket 370 w/ 4 Com ports, VGA/LCD, 2 10/100 LANs, Audio, TV I/O, DOC, USB, 1 PCI >slot, $288.40 - need CPU, Power supply, HDD I've seen this CPUs have "On board ESS1938 chipset build-in 3D sound system". Will this work in DOS? Emulate an SB16? Worse yet, have agood sound quality??? Thank you very much. Best regards, Brusque ----------------------------------- Edson Brusque Research and Development C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda Blumenau - SC - Brazil http://www.citronics.com.br Say NO to HTML mail ----------------------------------- -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Right, AVR's are fast 8Mhz clock = almost 8MIPS!, most OP codes = 1 cycle 68HC11 has some really nasty OP codes taking as much as 41, 68HC11 running on 8Mhz clock gives 2Mhz instruction rate, most OP codes are 4-5 so MIPS = 2,000,000 / 4.5 = 450KIPS! 0.5MIPS, its slow! Very robust OP codes compared to PIC, AVR is the best of both worlds. R. >> > balance I'd say the PIC is faster for "average" s/w. AVR >> > is a good blend of PIC speed and Mot instruction set >> > >> Number of op-codes, not actual Mot instructions of course >> -- >> http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: >> [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads __________________________________________________________ The Mind Factory INC http://www.themindfactory.com Richard Sloan (613) 825-4758 phone (613) 825-7758 fax KILLspamrsloanspamBeGonethemindfactory.com * Custom MP3 Development * Low Power FM Transmitters * Custom Smart Cards * Music / Speech Playback Systems * Electronic Manufacturing * Hardware / Firmware / Software Design * Schematic and PCB layout * 8051, 68HC11, PIC, AVR * MP3, FAT16/32, IR, IRDA, USB, X10, VIDEO, TCP/IP, LCD, COMPACT FLASH * ALL PRICES QUOTED IN US$ UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Hi Richard, Thanks for the info. Basically like other people have said it is more like 5 MIPS.. however my code is "well structured" C, and in no way optimised yet. Actually for this project I'll probably not bother to do any optimisation - This is probably twice the rate I actually need :) If I get time I'll do it, but basically I'm running out of that rapidly :) I also have a bunch of other things going on in the PIC as well for this application. Actually, I've got an annoying glitch that you may be able to help with. I seen to be unable to flush the buffer in the STA013, so that if I stop playback, wait awhile and start a new song, I get a burst of sound that seems to be what was left of the previous song. Any ideas on how to clear the buffer? Has or Does this happen with your version? Cheers, Ash. --- Ashley Roll Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd http://www.digitalnemesis.com Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718 > {Original Message removed}

I use the MAS3507, but I would think the method to clear would be to keep clocking in say zeros or ones and get rid of the old data, I have never seen this in my designs with the MAS. I would assume as soon as the STA013 sees no syncs in the data stream you would be "cleared" Also I can send a software reset command over control port that would clear this issue if it were to happen on the MAS Richard. >> Hi Richard, >> Thanks for the info. >> Basically like other people have said it is more like 5 MIPS.. however my >> code is "well structured" C, and in no way optimised yet. Actually for >> this >> project I'll probably not bother to do any optimisation - This is probably >> twice the rate I actually need :) If I get time I'll do it, but basically >> I'm running out of that rapidly :) >> I also have a bunch of other things going on in the PIC as well for this >> application. >> Actually, I've got an annoying glitch that you may be able to help with. I >> seen to be unable to flush the buffer in the STA013, so that if I stop >> playback, wait awhile and start a new song, I get a burst of sound that >> seems to be what was left of the previous song. Any ideas on how to clear >> the buffer? Has or Does this happen with your version? >> Cheers, >> Ash. >> --- >> Ashley Roll >> Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd >> http://www.digitalnemesis.com >> Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718 >> > {Original Message removed}

These scream! Original 4414 parts were meant to do 20Mhz, but Atmel never got them to work 100% at that frequency and ended up at 8Mhz.... too bad. R. >> At 04:43 PM 2/11/02 -0500, Richard Sloan wrote: >> >Right, AVR's are fast 8Mhz clock = almost 8MIPS!, most OP codes = 1 cycle >> 16 MHz! Mega-128. >> I'm doing a high performance thermal line printer with them at the moment. >> -- >> http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics >> (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics __________________________________________________________ The Mind Factory INC http://www.themindfactory.com Richard Sloan (613) 825-4758 phone (613) 825-7758 fax EraseMErsloanEraseMEthemindfactory.com * Custom MP3 Development * Low Power FM Transmitters * Custom Smart Cards * Music / Speech Playback Systems * Electronic Manufacturing * Hardware / Firmware / Software Design * Schematic and PCB layout * 8051, 68HC11, PIC, AVR * MP3, FAT16/32, IR, IRDA, USB, X10, VIDEO, TCP/IP, LCD, COMPACT FLASH * ALL PRICES QUOTED IN US$ UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Hello Players, Bob Blick wrote: > DOS? Yuck! Don't you have a hard drive size limit and 8.3 names? I > have full code(PC side and PIC side) if you want to use Linux and a > serial port. > > There are some 486 boards that just plain will not work, something > about DMA really interferes with being an MP3 player. I'd suggest an > LPX-format socket-7 motherboard, you can get them for $15 and > have onboard good-quality sound, video, etc, in a small format. right now, I'm starting to think about Linux. The problem with DOS seens to be lack of support for new technologies. There's motherboards with the AC97 codec, that I though could have decent-quality sound optput. Also, the onboard ethernet would be very usefull, but will be hard to use these resources on DOS. Linux, on other side, seens to have drives for these things. Sorry, what's "LPX" format motherboard??? So, my project requirements seens to have changed. Byron A Jeff wrote: >Of course it'll have a PIC based, serial interfaced, control panel. >Eventually it'll interface to a yet to be written program that will >interface with a set of scripts that I've written to control the play >mix on my home PC MP3 player. Commands such as skip, repeat, and find >are already in the arsenal. Normal mode is to play a continuous random >playlist. I'm currently doing a simple RS232 terminal with a PIC16F628, a 2x40 LCD and 16 keys. I'll pretend to use this to control the MP3Player. Just 4 wires GND, 5V, TX and RX between the system case and the control panel/terminal. Byron A Jeff wrote: > Edson, I haven't yet found a cost effective SBC for this project. My >small box is a Baby-AT Socket 7 MB with onboard sound, video, and >ethernet, using a 450 Mhz AMD K6. It's mounted in a 11x16x2 inch >organizing case with the removable buckets. This houses the MB, >13GB HD, and the zip. The power supply will be external to the case. A motherboard similar to the one you're using seens to cost about US$80,00 here in Brazil. Maybe I could find an used one cheaper with processor and some memory. I'm also melting some neurones thinking about the PSU... Byron A Jeff wrote: >The last interesting item which I haven't implemented yet is LinuxBIOS. >Essentially you flash a modified Linux kernel onto the motherboard which >boots directly without all the pesky POST/memory sequences that standard >BIOSes have. Boots to a running state in less than 10 seconds and can be >powered down with impunity. Check it out at http://www.linuxbios.org. This seens to be very interesting. Please tell us when you got it working. Bob Blick wrote: >I certainly see the point of a DOS player, but the really cool ones use >Linux :) What software are you using for this? I've seen a player these days for Linux I think is called XMMS, it's the one you're using? How to make it interface with keys and LCD on a COM port? Best regards, Brusque ----------------------------------- Edson Brusque Research and Development C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda Blumenau - SC - Brazil http://www.citronics.com.br Say NO to HTML mail ----------------------------------- -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Edson Brusque wrote: > > Sorry, what's "LPX" format motherboard??? > Lots of computers had them. One slot that is meant for a riser card, carries PCI and ISA signals(and an ISA card will plug and run in it without a riser). The board I liked is the Intel RU430HX because it is 8 inches square, has onboard video(S3 Virge) and Yamaha audio, plus all the usual ports. Some versions of it have USB also. The audio is very good quality. Takes Socket 7 Pentiums. You can find them new still, from closeout dealers for about 15 or 20 $US. I plan to make one into a player for my wife's car. I have a USB ethernet adapter so I can update it without needing any cards, so the whole package can be 9 inches or less square by 2 inches high. I'm working on a web page to describe all this, I'll put code and schematics there too. Cheerful regards, Bob Blick -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

>On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Edson Brusque wrote: >> Sorry, what's "LPX" format motherboard??? >Lots of computers had them. One slot that is meant for a riser card, >carries PCI and ISA signals(and an ISA card will plug and run in it >without a riser). The board I liked is the Intel RU430HX because it is 8 >inches square, has onboard video(S3 Virge) and Yamaha audio, plus all the >usual ports. Some versions of it have USB also. The audio is very good >quality. Takes Socket 7 Pentiums. You can find them new still, from >closeout dealers for about 15 or 20 $US. Edson, this one is simple: Remember that crap computers made by Acer and Unisys some time ago in Brazil? That 486 with white square boxes, all made of plastic? That boards are LPX. One big board with everything, and a riser board with the ISA and PCI connectors. COMPAQ also used that ones. ---8<---Corte aqui---8<---- Alexandre Souza spamBeGonetaitoKILLspamterra.com.br http://planeta.terra.com.br/lazer/pinball/ ---8<---Corte aqui---8<---- -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Edson Brusque" <.....ebrusquespam_OUTTERRA.COM.BR> To: <TakeThisOuTPICLIST.....TakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [EE]: Car MP3 player. (oh no, again!!!) {Quote hidden}> Hello Players, > > Bob Blick wrote: > > DOS? Yuck! Don't you have a hard drive size limit and 8.3 names? I > > have full code(PC side and PIC side) if you want to use Linux and a > > serial port. > > > > There are some 486 boards that just plain will not work, something > > about DMA really interferes with being an MP3 player. I'd suggest an > > LPX-format socket-7 motherboard, you can get them for $15 and > > have onboard good-quality sound, video, etc, in a small format. > > right now, I'm starting to think about Linux. The problem with DOS seens Cool, smart move. ;-) It will work good. I actually saw a board on the internet recently (strongarm processor I believe) that actually had a UDMA IDE controller on board and an actual reserved area on the circuit board for attaching a hard drive. Of course, it's way expensive, but ideal for an mp3 player. > to be lack of support for new technologies. There's motherboards with the > AC97 codec, that I though could have decent-quality sound optput. Also, the > onboard ethernet would be very usefull, but will be hard to use these > resources on DOS. Linux, on other side, seens to have drives for these > things. > > Sorry, what's "LPX" format motherboard??? Like the ones that come in low-profile desktops (read as proprietary) that use a "riser" card system for add-on adapter cards. They're kinda big, but a whole lot cheaper than SBC's tend to be. You will have to supply all the weird pc voltages (+5, -5(?), +12, -12). No problem if you have access to ac mains, just use a pc supply (real cheap). > So, my project requirements seens to have changed. I suspect this is normal. ;-D > Byron A Jeff wrote: > >Of course it'll have a PIC based, serial interfaced, control panel. > >Eventually it'll interface to a yet to be written program that will > >interface with a set of scripts that I've written to control the play > >mix on my home PC MP3 player. Commands such as skip, repeat, and find > >are already in the arsenal. Normal mode is to play a continuous random > >playlist. > > I'm currently doing a simple RS232 terminal with a PIC16F628, a 2x40 LCD > and 16 keys. I'll pretend to use this to control the MP3Player. Just 4 wires > GND, 5V, TX and RX between the system case and the control panel/terminal. Should be good enough. {Quote hidden}> Byron A Jeff wrote: > > Edson, I haven't yet found a cost effective SBC for this project. My > >small box is a Baby-AT Socket 7 MB with onboard sound, video, and > >ethernet, using a 450 Mhz AMD K6. It's mounted in a 11x16x2 inch > >organizing case with the removable buckets. This houses the MB, > >13GB HD, and the zip. The power supply will be external to the case. > > A motherboard similar to the one you're using seens to cost about > US$80,00 here in Brazil. Maybe I could find an used one cheaper with > processor and some memory. > > I'm also melting some neurones thinking about the PSU... > > Byron A Jeff wrote: > >The last interesting item which I haven't implemented yet is LinuxBIOS. > >Essentially you flash a modified Linux kernel onto the motherboard which > >boots directly without all the pesky POST/memory sequences that standard > >BIOSes have. Boots to a running state in less than 10 seconds and can be > >powered down with impunity. Check it out at http://www.linuxbios.org. > > This seens to be very interesting. Please tell us when you got it > working. > > Bob Blick wrote: > >I certainly see the point of a DOS player, but the really cool ones use > >Linux :) > > What software are you using for this? I've seen a player these days for > Linux I think is called XMMS, it's the one you're using? How to make it > interface with keys and LCD on a COM port? > > Best regards, > > Brusque michael brown -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Hello, > Cool, smart move. ;-) It will work good. I actually saw a board on the > internet recently (strongarm processor I believe) that actually had a UDMA > IDE controller on board and an actual reserved area on the circuit board for > attaching a hard drive. Of course, it's way expensive, but ideal for an mp3 > player. while we're on the MOBOs and CPUs subject, someone here knows prices and stuff about the ZFLinux CPUs series? It seens to be very good, but have someone used it actually? How much each processor costs? How hard it's to actually put it on a PCB? Best regards, Brusque ----------------------------------- Edson Brusque Research and Development C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda Blumenau - SC - Brazil http://www.citronics.com.br Say NO to HTML mail ----------------------------------- -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

I did a design with a ZFLinux MachZ SOC-MZP-Q-1, which is under $50. The developer documentation and everything was great. The only issue with getting it on a PCB is the fact that it's a BGA package, which my company doesn't have in-house facilities to mount, so we had to send them out. -Mark At 09:03 PM 2/13/02 -0300, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>Hello, > > > Cool, smart move. ;-) It will work good. I actually saw a board on the > > internet recently (strongarm processor I believe) that actually had a UDMA > > IDE controller on board and an actual reserved area on the circuit board >for > > attaching a hard drive. Of course, it's way expensive, but ideal for an >mp3 > > player. > > while we're on the MOBOs and CPUs subject, someone here knows prices and >stuff about the ZFLinux CPUs series? It seens to be very good, but have >someone used it actually? How much each processor costs? How hard it's to >actually put it on a PCB? > > Best regards, > > Brusque > >----------------------------------- >Edson Brusque >Research and Development >C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda >Blumenau - SC - Brazil >http://www.citronics.com.br >Say NO to HTML mail >----------------------------------- > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different >ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. ------------------------------------------- Mark Samuels ARMA Design Tel:(858) 373-1320 Fax:(858) 373-1325 Email: TakeThisOuTmarkKILLspamspamarmanet.com Web: http://www.armanet.com The information contained in this electronic message is private and may contain privileged, confidential or inside information. Any distribution, copying or forwarding or use of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Hello Mark, > I did a design with a ZFLinux MachZ SOC-MZP-Q-1, which is under $50. The > developer documentation and everything was great. The only issue with > getting it on a PCB is the fact that it's a BGA package, which my company > doesn't have in-house facilities to mount, so we had to send them out. could you please give more details? Performance of the chip? What you have to put/create around it (VGA controllers, USB anything, connectors, ISA bus, PCB bus, etc)? I know the datasheets tell it all, but it's good to hear from who have used it in the real world. :) Thank you, Brusque ----------------------------------- Edson Brusque Research and Development C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda Blumenau - SC - Brazil http://www.citronics.com.br Say NO to HTML mail ----------------------------------- -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

The application is battery powered, so I only have the MachZ running at 33MHz, and running some DOS applications. As far as support circuitry, there really isn't that much! The great thing about the part is the fact that everything is integrated. VGA is literally pins out of the part. Same with PCI, ISA, IDE, RAM, USB, serial/parallel. Pretty much only passive components needed. Since then, I did another design with another SOC, National Semiconductor's Geode processor, which is also a fully integrated part, except it's a pentium core, and runs up to 300MHz! -Mark At 10:18 PM 2/13/02 -0300, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>Hello Mark, > > > I did a design with a ZFLinux MachZ SOC-MZP-Q-1, which is under $50. The > > developer documentation and everything was great. The only issue with > > getting it on a PCB is the fact that it's a BGA package, which my company > > doesn't have in-house facilities to mount, so we had to send them out. > > could you please give more details? Performance of the chip? What you >have to put/create around it (VGA controllers, USB anything, connectors, ISA >bus, PCB bus, etc)? > > I know the datasheets tell it all, but it's good to hear from who have >used it in the real world. :) > > Thank you, > > Brusque ------------------------------------------- Mark Samuels ARMA Design Tel:(858) 373-1320 Fax:(858) 373-1325 Email: .....markRemoveMEarmanet.com Web: http://www.armanet.com The information contained in this electronic message is private and may contain privileged, confidential or inside information. Any distribution, copying or forwarding or use of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

instead of just sticking a desktop computer in your car you might want to look into the Lart it's' a Strongarm based embedded computer that will run linux I guess there are some people on their email list that are planning on ordering PCB's soon I looked into building one a while ago, but never did I think someone did a new-design, that uses newer memory and the latest strongarm here's the link to there web site: http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/ "The LART is a small yet powerful embedded computer capable of running Linux. Its performance is around 250 MIPS while consuming less than 1 Watt of power. In a standard configuration it holds 32MB DRAM and 4MB Flash ROM, which is sufficient for a Linux kernel and a sizeable ramdisk image" -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Crum" > Subject: Re: [EE]: Car MP3 player. (oh no, again!!!) > instead of just sticking a desktop computer in your car you might want to > look into the Lart > it's' a Strongarm based embedded computer that will run linux I like what I see out there. I'm looking at buying a CerfCube (3"x3"x3") right now. It's strongarm based also. 32mbram, 16mb flash, 3 serials, 10BaseT ethernet, USB type "B" :-( Check it out here: http://www.cerfcube.com Seems to be a nice linux distro. I liked what I saw so much, I'm gonna send them a resume. ;-) > I guess there are some people on their email list that are planning on > ordering PCB's soon Where can you get these, and how much do they cost? From the web site it looked to be a "roll your own" project. Since I can't solder SMT stuff, can you get the boards pre-populated? I can handle "normal" soldering (such as mini-din connectors), but SMT is out of the question for me. ;-D I hope this is not getting too far "off topic". I most certainly would use PIC-type micro's along with my SBC endeavors. They're a match made in heaven. It's all EE anywho. -- michael brown http://www.killerpcs.net -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email spamBeGonelistserv@spam@spam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> Where can you get these, and how much do they cost? I'm not exactly sure what they have decided to do -Bareboards or Populated? I havn't been monitoring the list much, do to my limited time but I think they were going to populate the "hard to do" stuff ---- like the SA-1110 (which is only available in BGA....hard for the DIY guy/gal) As for cost, sadly, I don't think they came up with a price yet The board they are putting together is a modified lart. The original Lart used the SA-1100 (which uses a hard to find EDODRAM) but the new Lart (Ballon2 or something like that) uses SDRAM so I think it will be cheaper than the original. BUT, Alphea 1 ( http://www.aleph1.co.uk/armlinux/index.html ) has a development kit (really expensive): "LART package costs GBP440, and KSB costs GBP218, and Ethernet costs GBP120 all including air postage. Add GBP35 for carriage by courier service rather than air post. These prices EXCLUDE British tax: in Britain add 17.5% VAT " When I looked into making one, the hardest thing was to get the PCB's in small qtys somewhat cheap. I think it's a 6 layer board. Since they are doing a batch of around a100 PCBs I think they were able to get the cost down goodluck g {Original Message removed}

Gary said: > Michael: > I just looked at the cerfpod.... pretty cool.... > (I like there cerfPDA too but it's $2500...ouch) Yeah, they're pretty proud of those. The CerfPod is pretty neat (but expensive) too. > have you thought about trying the iOpener > it's a netappliance that used to sell for $100....(REALLY cheap) > thinking they would get money from being your ISP (wrong!) > then people hacked it into a Linux Box Found some, they look pretty neat. Allot of nice stuff for under $100.00. Looks like some real fun. Too bad it needs 19 volts though, that makes it tough(er) to put in a car. > my friend has one with linux on it...pretty nice > you can find them on ebay for about the original price > ....I guess some people thought they where hackers > ...but then they must have found out it's a little harder than in the movies > ...so they gave up on it > > check out http://www.adamlotz.com/iopener.html I did, pretty neat! I am wondering what the issue is about having a "glued in" bios chip. It sounds like you don't need to do anything to the bios to make the thing work as a simple pc. Here is a link I found on e-bay: http://neartowntech.com/kittman/iopener/ michael brown -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email TakeThisOuTlistservspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

This is all very interesting but what about power consumption and heat ? Don't these things require serious thermal design to make them work inside a closed box (especially the Geode) ? Last time I checked a chip running at 300MHz requires serious cooling arrangements to keep it under 70C at all times. Do they use a very low core voltage internally to avoid producting heat ? Peter Mark Samuels wrote: The application is battery powered, so I only have the MachZ running at 33MHz, and running some DOS applications. As far as support circuitry, there really isn't that much! The great thing about the part is the fact that everything is integrated. VGA is literally pins out of the part. Same with PCI, ISA, IDE, RAM, USB, serial/parallel. Pretty much only passive components needed. Since then, I did another design with another SOC, National Semiconductor's Geode processor, which is also a fully integrated part, except it's a pentium core, and runs up to 300MHz! -Mark -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Very true!! On the geode design, we're actually running the part at <only> 233 MHz, and the core voltage is 1.8V. Things still get pretty hot inside the box, but it's primarily from sources other than the geode (LCD backlight, mostly). We've been able to keep everything within spec with just venting and heat sinking, no active cooling. -Mark At 07:01 PM 2/14/02 +0200, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>This is all very interesting but what about power consumption and heat ? >Don't these things require serious thermal design to make them work inside >a closed box (especially the Geode) ? Last time I checked a chip running >at 300MHz requires serious cooling arrangements to keep it under 70C at >all times. Do they use a very low core voltage internally to avoid >producting heat ? > >Peter > >Mark Samuels wrote: > >The application is battery powered, so I only have the MachZ running at >33MHz, and running some DOS applications. As far as support circuitry, >there really isn't that much! The great thing about the part is the fact >that everything is integrated. VGA is literally pins out of the part. >Same with PCI, ISA, IDE, RAM, USB, serial/parallel. Pretty much only >passive components needed. Since then, I did another design with another >SOC, National Semiconductor's Geode processor, which is also a fully >integrated part, except it's a pentium core, and runs up to 300MHz! > >-Mark > >-- >http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! >email RemoveMElistservEraseMEspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body ------------------------------------------- Mark Samuels ARMA Design Tel:(858) 373-1320 Fax:(858) 373-1325 Email: @spam@markRemoveMEEraseMEarmanet.com Web: http://www.armanet.com The information contained in this electronic message is private and may contain privileged, confidential or inside information. Any distribution, copying or forwarding or use of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email EraseMElistserv@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

----- Original Message ----- From: michael brown <@spam@n5qmgspam_OUT.....AMSAT.ORG> > > have you thought about trying the iOpener > > it's a netappliance that used to sell for $100....(REALLY cheap) > > thinking they would get money from being your ISP (wrong!) > > then people hacked it into a Linux Box > > Found some, they look pretty neat. Allot of nice stuff for under $100.00. > Looks like some real fun. Too bad it needs 19 volts though, that makes it > tough(er) to put in a car. Got one last year (before they changed the EULA and pricing); pretty cool, but a bit slow. Still trying to get my usb ethernet to work under a small distro of linux. I've toyed with the idea of making it into a "portable" o'scope. The 19v input isn't the real problem for a car mp3 system... The screen probably won't stand up to thermal cycling in that environment. And the sound quality isn't all that hot; even picking the signals directly off the board. You'd be better off hacking an old socket 7 MB and running and extended temp LCD + controls out to your dash. > I did, pretty neat! I am wondering what the issue is about having a "glued > in" bios chip. It sounds like you don't need to do anything to the bios to > make the thing work as a simple pc. Here is a link I found on e-bay: > http://neartowntech.com/kittman/iopener/ When they found users not using them as they intended they modified the subsequent bios releases to inhibit adding additional hardware and reconfiguring the iopener. People got around this by reflashing the bios to the older version. Netpliance started gluing the flash in the socket, so newer iopeners often ended up with cracked sockets when removing, requiring soldering a new surface mount socket in its place (provided you didn't pull up board traces.) On the whole it's a bit much work for something that is really only marginal hardware anyway. It might make a good indoor mp3 player if you used an external USB sound driver... -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email spamBeGonelistservEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Told you it could be done with a PIC and the Micronas mp3 decoder. Taken from the WWW site http://www.slimdevices.com Display: Noritake 40x2 VFD CPU: Microchip PIC16F877 microcontroller Ethernet controller: Crystal CS8900A 10Mbps embedded Ethernet chip DMA controller: proprietary logic, Xilinx XC95144XL MP3 decoder: Micronas MAS3507D DAC: Crystal CS4334, 16-bit 44Khz Buffer RAM: 1Mb (8 seconds at 128Kbps) ROM: Rewritable flash program memory, EEPROM configuration memory IR: Standard 40Khz IR receiver Power supply: comes with 5V 1600mA power supply, player uses 700ma (max) Protocols DHCP, ARP, IP, ICMP, UDP Support for subnets/gateways (see documentation section on WANs) Open UDP-based streaming and control protocols Firmware Open-source, high-speed, embedded IP protocol stack Written entirely in assembler, for performance and compactness General-purpose architecture offloads most of the application to the server side - new features can be added without making changes to the low-level firmware (protocols, device drivers) Integrated boot-loader program includes its own copy of the IP stack and necessary drivers, so that the entire MP3 player application may be reinstalled over the network. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Got something to say? Say it better with Yahoo! Video Mail -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body