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'[EE]: MAX232 -- TI vs. Maxim.'
2003\06\24@054953 by Picdude

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I've noticed recently that Digikey has TI's version of the MAX232 for only $0.90 each, compared with a few $ for Maxim's versions.  TI claims that it's a replacement for the Maxim part, but do any of you know if this is really a drop-in replacement, or if there are any issues that need to be worked around?

Cheers,
-Neil.

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2003\06\24@055749 by David Duffy

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Picdude wrote:
> I've noticed recently that Digikey has TI's version of the MAX232 for only
> $0.90 each, compared with a few $ for Maxim's versions.  TI claims that it's
> a replacement for the Maxim part, but do any of you know if this is really a
> drop-in replacement, or if there are any issues that need to be worked
> around?

It would be wise to check the data sheets for recommended capacitor
values for both manufacturers. ESD protection may be different too.
David...
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2003\06\24@060727 by Picdude

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Wow!  That was fast.

Anyway, I actually did look at TI's datasheet, and the caps are the same 1uf as with the Maxim part I've used.  I believe Maxim has a smaller-cap version, though I've never used that.

Haven't looked at ESD protection.... hmmm... I'll investigate what the implications are of this.

Cheers,
-Neil.



On Tuesday 24 June 2003 04:58, David Duffy scribbled:
{Quote hidden}

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2003\06\24@062327 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Anyway, I actually did look at TI's datasheet, and the caps are the
>same 1uf as with the Maxim part I've used.  I believe Maxim has a
>smaller-cap version, though I've never used that.

Check the MAX202E, it will use 0.1uF caps, and I believe is pin compatible
to the MAX232. However I think you will find that the smaller cap parts are
more expensive, and the "no-cap" parts even more expensive. Pay to lay out
the PCB so it will take 0.1uF or 1uF ceramic caps.

If you want to have 3V or 3V and 5V operation check the MAX3232E. The
capacitor value varies a bit depending which voltage you want, but they do
have a value that allows dual voltage operation if desired. Could be useful
for battery powered equipment running off 3 AA cells, with a diode in series
with the battery to allow 5V operation off a wall wart.

>Haven't looked at ESD protection.... hmmm... I'll investigate
>what the implications are of this.

All the MAXxxxE parts have 15kV ESD protection. IIRC this is right across
the product range, not just the 232 series parts.

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2003\06\24@065722 by Brent Brown

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On 24 Jun 2003 at 11:22, Alan B. Pearce wrote:

> >Anyway, I actually did look at TI's datasheet, and the caps are the
> >same 1uf as with the Maxim part I've used.  I believe Maxim has a
> >smaller-cap version, though I've never used that.
>
> Check the MAX202E, it will use 0.1uF caps, and I believe is pin
> compatible to the MAX232. However I think you will find that the
> smaller cap parts are more expensive, and the "no-cap" parts even more
> expensive. Pay to lay out the PCB so it will take 0.1uF or 1uF ceramic
> caps.

My favourite part is presently the ST202E. They use 0.1uF caps, have
15kV ESD protection and are pretty cheap. I used ST202ECD which is an
SO-16 package and they cost me NZ$1.15ea for 100 (less than
US$0.70ea). You can get then in DIP as well, suffix EAN, EBN or ECN.

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2003\06\24@073710 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 10:56 PM 6/24/2003 +1200, you wrote:

>My favourite part is presently the ST202E. They use 0.1uF caps, have
>15kV ESD protection and are pretty cheap. I used ST202ECD which is an
>SO-16 package and they cost me NZ$1.15ea for 100 (less than
>US$0.70ea). You can get then in DIP as well, suffix EAN, EBN or ECN.

Ditto. You can get them from FAI, or if price isn't that important,
Mouser in the USofA.

Dunno why Maxim's prices are so much higher.

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
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2003\06\24@081042 by Bob Axtell

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TI has a justified reputation for rugged, available components, almost
always at good prices. Check the datasheet to be sure, but I'd go for it.

If the expense of 1uF caps are too much, don't use tantalum, just use
aluminum; for this task they'll work fine and are as cheap as 0.1uF caps.

BTW, the non-cap versions have caused us noise (radiation) problems when
cables were attached to the RS232 outputs, and we had to drop back to the
202 versions instead. Watch those guys closely when getting radiation tests
performed.

--Bob

At 04:52 AM 6/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2003\06\24@081840 by Marc Nicholas

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Unless you have a particularly unusual requirement, you should be fine with
either.

I acquired some MAX3221s recently for a design.


-marc

On 24/6/03 05:52, "Picdude" <TakeThisOuTpicdudeEraseMEspamspam_OUTNARWANI.ORG> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\06\24@082708 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 05:09 AM 6/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>TI has a justified reputation for rugged, available components, almost
>always at good prices. Check the datasheet to be sure, but I'd go for it.
>
>If the expense of 1uF caps are too much, don't use tantalum, just use
>aluminum; for this task they'll work fine and are as cheap as 0.1uF caps.
<snip>

"Semiconductor" ceramics are getting pretty cheap in that size- 1uF/16V
Y5V 0805 (SMT) are only about 11 cents US in small quantity (100 pcs).

I prefer the type of chip (202E?) that uses 0.1uF but even those will
benefit from having larger caps (see data sheet for details).

Best regards,

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2003\06\24@082711 by Marc Nicholas

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On 24/6/03 08:08, "Marc Nicholas" <RemoveMEmarcspam_OUTspamKILLspamGEEKYTHINGS.COM> wrote:

> Unless you have a particularly unusual requirement, you should be fine with
> either.
>
> I acquired some MAX3221s recently for a design.
(Because I needed the functionality of the 3221...should have finished my
own sentence, but (!coffee(morning)) == bad_things)




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2003\06\24@092033 by John Pearson

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----- Original Message -----
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To: <RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:09 AM
Subject: Re: [EE]: MAX232 -- TI vs. Maxim.


> BTW, the non-cap versions have caused us noise (radiation) problems when
> cables were attached to the RS232 outputs, and we had to drop back to the
> 202 versions instead. Watch those guys closely when getting radiation
tests
> performed.

Are you refering to the DS275 by any chance? :(

John
>
> --Bob
>
> At 04:52 AM 6/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >I've noticed recently that Digikey has TI's version of the MAX232 for
only
> >$0.90 each, compared with a few $ for Maxim's versions.  TI claims that
it's
> >a replacement for the Maxim part, but do any of you know if this is
really a
{Quote hidden}

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2003\06\24@115547 by Byron A Jeff

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On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 07:37:50AM -0400, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> At 10:56 PM 6/24/2003 +1200, you wrote:
>
> >My favourite part is presently the ST202E. They use 0.1uF caps, have
> >15kV ESD protection and are pretty cheap. I used ST202ECD which is an
> >SO-16 package and they cost me NZ$1.15ea for 100 (less than
> >US$0.70ea). You can get then in DIP as well, suffix EAN, EBN or ECN.
>
> Ditto. You can get them from FAI, or if price isn't that important,
> Mouser in the USofA.
>
> Dunno why Maxim's prices are so much higher.

That's easy. Brand name. It's the same answer as to why Intel CPUs are
generally 30% higher in price than their corresponding AMD counterparts.

I call it the Lexus syndrome. Lexus(es?) are generally $10-15 thousand USD
higher than a high end Toyota, but have very nearly the same characteristics
and parts. So I figure you're paying the extra money for the Lexus symbol!

BAJ

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2003\06\24@131543 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 11:54 AM 6/24/2003 -0400, you wrote:


>That's easy. Brand name. It's the same answer as to why Intel CPUs are
>generally 30% higher in price than their corresponding AMD counterparts.

Sure, for onesy-twosies. They must also discount aggressively in quantity
for factory orders- I've seen the Maxim parts in volume products, and the
difference is too large! There are also minor compatibility issues with AMD
CPUs, even today.

>I call it the Lexus syndrome. Lexus(es?) are generally $10-15 thousand USD
>higher than a high end Toyota, but have very nearly the same characteristics
>and parts. So I figure you're paying the extra money for the Lexus symbol!

Do they offer "Maxim inside" stickers?  ;-)  I'd worry about lead times..
;-)

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
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2003\06\24@160655 by Dwayne Reid

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At 04:52 AM 6/24/03 -0500, Picdude wrote:
>I've noticed recently that Digikey has TI's version of the MAX232 for only
>$0.90 each, compared with a few $ for Maxim's versions.  TI claims that it's
>a replacement for the Maxim part, but do any of you know if this is really a
>drop-in replacement, or if there are any issues that need to be worked
>around?

No issues that I've seen.  I, too, use the TI versions of many parts:
max232 and lt1013 come immediately to mind but there are others.  The TI
parts have met or exceeded the original specs and are much less expensive.

Go for it - you should have no problems at all.

dwayne

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2003\06\24@170822 by

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If you are experimenting/prototyping I'v found the
TI samples services to be very usefull. Up to 8
different IC's in each "order" and up to 10 of each
typ (or up to 3 for the more unusual types). Maxim
has a maximum of 3 types at a time and you can not specify
the amount (you get two of each).

(I just ckecked, and the RS232 interface line is available
as samples from TI.)

Jan-Erik.

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2003\06\25@022810 by Picdude

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Folks,

Thanks for the responses.  Seems like TI is good to go.  I've decided to pick up a couple of the TI parts, one Maxim (on reserve, just in case I ever need to compare behaviour), and I'm still looking into the ST202.

Cheers,
-Neil.



On Tuesday 24 June 2003 04:52, Picdude scribbled:
> I've noticed recently that Digikey has TI's version of the MAX232 for only
> $0.90 each, compared with a few $ for Maxim's versions.  TI claims that
> it's a replacement for the Maxim part, but do any of you know if this is
> really a drop-in replacement, or if there are any issues that need to be
> worked around?
>
> Cheers,
> -Neil.

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2003\06\25@023637 by Picdude

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On Tuesday 24 June 2003 16:07, Jan-erik Söderholm (QAC) scribbled:
> If you are experimenting/prototyping I'v found the
> TI samples services to be very usefull. Up to 8
> different IC's in each "order" and up to 10 of each
> typ (or up to 3 for the more unusual types). Maxim
> has a maximum of 3 types at a time and you can not specify
> the amount (you get two of each).
>
> (I just ckecked, and the RS232 interface line is available
> as samples from TI.)
>
> Jan-Erik.


TI's sample service is indeed quick & excellent, but they are a pain to deal with, since they hide behind their website.  One slight deviation or problem from what they consider to be a *perfect* system/site, and things become a mess..... Forgot my password, and the "Forgot password" system was broken, telling me my email was invalid (though I still receive emails from them at that same address).  I could find no web-issues support on their website.  No phone to call, so spent about 45 mins tracking someone down thru their investor relations department.  Found lots of IT depts in the process, some even responsible for the website, but none could tell me who could fix the problem.  I ended up leaving some info on their general comments page (this is the only place that I ever gave any of my contact info).

A few days later, I get an email stating my password was reset.  Within the next few days, I get other emails from different people stating the password was reset again.  And another a week later.  I had one email name, and begged them to just stop, since in the middle of all that I had changed my password already.

Some time later, I get a call from a lady requesting feedback on the samples, so after giving that info to her, I mentioned that their web support was a pain, and explained why.  Well, she decided to pass along my comments, and a few days later, I get another email stating my password was again reset.  Arrrggghhh!!!  Since then I haven't touched their site, and prefer to pay $0.90 for the parts from Digikey.

Cheers,
-Neil.

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2003\06\25@024258 by hael Rigby-Jones

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Byron A Jeff [SMTP:spamBeGonebyron@spam@spamspam_OUTCC.GATECH.EDU]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 4:54 PM
> To:   TakeThisOuTPICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject:      Re: [EE]:  MAX232 -- TI vs. Maxim.
>
> I call it the Lexus syndrome. Lexus(es?)
>
Surely Lexi is the plural :-)

Mike


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2003\06\25@041348 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Do they offer "Maxim inside" stickers?  ;-)

One of my work colleagues reckons it is appropriate that the "Intel Inside"
sticker is right beside the reset button on his new machine :)))

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2003\06\25@182724 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
No, it was a capless Maxim part. The number eludes me now. It was the
capless version of Max211CWI, which works fine. They didn't detect the
radiation until they attached wires to an RS232 output. I didn't do the
radiation test, my client's engineer caught it.

My guess is that the frequency is so high that with wires attached, it
becomes a tuned antenna. Big surprise, but it made sense. It could have
been crushed with an RF choke, but four 7cent caps are cheaper- and the
transceiver is cheaper, too. Its possible that Maxim never knew it, because
unloaded (no inductance) it's quiet.

My clients are mostly involved with law enforcement (governments) and
inadvertant emissions can't be allowed.

--Bob

At 06:32 AM 6/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>{Original Message removed}

2003\06\26@163742 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> I've noticed recently that Digikey has TI's version of the
> MAX232 for only
> $0.90 each, compared with a few $ for Maxim's versions.  TI
> claims that it's
> a replacement for the Maxim part, but do any of you know if
> this is really a
> drop-in replacement, or if there are any issues that need to
> be worked around?

I have mixed max232, icl232, hin232, st232 without any problems.

Wouter van Ooijen

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2003\06\26@184052 by Steve Ruse

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I've used literally hundreds of the TI & ST 232 chips with no problems.

Steve Ruse

> > I've noticed recently that Digikey has TI's version of the
> > MAX232 for only
> > $0.90 each, compared with a few $ for Maxim's versions.  TI
> > claims that it's
> > a replacement for the Maxim part, but do any of you know if
> > this is really a
> > drop-in replacement, or if there are any issues that need to
> > be worked around?

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2003\06\26@192800 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 06:37 PM 6/26/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>I've used literally hundreds of the TI & ST 232 chips with no problems.

BTW, I recently had an ST3232B die on an adapter cable, probably from
plugging in the CMOS-level inputs. That side probably isn't as well
protected against ESD-induced latchup.

Always a PITA when development stuff goes TU. Of course one should not
release anything to the field like that.

Best regards,

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