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'[EE]: Eagle under Linux -- AGAIN.'
2003\04\04@134247 by picdude

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Installed Eagle 4.09r2 under Redhat 7.2 and it's got one serious bug -- whenever I scroll thru the library to install a part, it crashes.  And seriously enough to totally freeze the machine, except for the mouse.

Now, this is very unbecoming of Linux, since any crashing apps are usually good enough to die on their own and leave the rest of Linux running, so I'm confused as to what's happening here.  Every other app I've installed works w/o probs.

So I used another partition on a new HD, and did the same -- RH7.2 and Eagle 4.09r2.  Same exact problem.

Would appreciate any assistance from anyone who knows why this may happen.  My next try will be Slackware 8 to see if it makes a difference.

Again, I'd appreciate it if we did not morph this thread into a Linux vs. Windows debate.

Cheers,
-Neil.

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2003\04\04@135909 by Charles Craft

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Does it actually freeze the machine or just the GUI?

Can you telnet in from another box on the network and kill the app that hosed the GUI?

How about attaching a serial device to a com port for an ASCII console?



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2003\04\04@140528 by Ned Konz

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On Friday 04 April 2003 11:01 am, picdude wrote:
> Installed Eagle 4.09r2 under Redhat 7.2 and it's got one serious
> bug -- whenever I scroll thru the library to install a part, it
> crashes.
[snip]
> So I used another partition on a new HD, and did the same -- RH7.2
> and Eagle 4.09r2.  Same exact problem.
>
> Would appreciate any assistance from anyone who knows why this may
> happen.  My next try will be Slackware 8 to see if it makes a
> difference.

Eagle is extremely stable for me on my system (RH7.3/Eagle 4.09r2).

Well, what video driver are you using? This sounds like an X/Video
driver problem.

Did ctrl-alt-F2 (say) return you to a text login?

> Again, I'd appreciate it if we did not morph this thread into a
> Linux vs. Windows debate.

Why would anyone do that?
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2003\04\04@140736 by Brendan Moran

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>Does it actually freeze the machine or just the GUI?
>
>Can you telnet in from another box on the network and kill the app that
>hosed the GUI?
>
>How about attaching a serial device to a com port for an ASCII console?

Why not just flip to a non-GUI terminal?  Isn't it something like
CTRL-Shift-F1,F2,etc..?

--Brendan

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2003\04\04@145722 by jim barchuk

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Hi -Neil!

On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, picdude wrote:

> Installed Eagle 4.09r2 under Redhat 7.2 and it's got one serious bug --
> whenever I scroll thru the library to install a part, it crashes.  And
> seriously enough to totally freeze the machine, except for the mouse.
>
> Now, this is very unbecoming of Linux, since any crashing apps are
> usually good enough to die on their own and leave the rest of Linux
> running, so I'm confused as to what's happening here.  Every other app
> I've installed works w/o probs.

Was it an -install- or an -upgrade-? If update, there are several
'WARNINGs' in there regarding 'previous files' (and you didn't mention
whether you're using existing files or creating a new one.)

Are you running it as user or root? If root, be aware that you should
never ever run 'user apps' as root. There's almost no way that a user app
can lock the box. About the only time it's ever happened to me it's been
hardware related.

Did you -DL- rpm or tgz?

Are you 'registered' or 'freeware'?

Is your 7.2 totally 'up2date -u'?

Is everything else unrelated to '7.2' up to date, drivers and such?

The point is that it's impossible to even start to answer a Q as global as
'something's wrong' without very very exact description of how you got
into a particular condition/state.  All it takes is oe glitch/oddity to
collapse a house of cards. :)

Never having used Eagle before, under 7.2/fully up2date w/P4-1.5G, I just
did a virgin install of tgz and it's fine. I'll get around to really
running it later because I've wanted to but this was just a quick install
to see if it works from a 'known virgin baseline.' There must be -another-
reason why it's whacked for you, not Eagle itself.

Which reminds me, what's your CPU? See? There're tons of variables. :)

(Yes, you said 'again.' But this is 'now' and I'm not gonna run back to
the archives to review where you've already answered those Qs under other
instances. All it takes is two minutes of thought on 'how to ask a Q' plus
another minute of writing to ask it properly.)

> So I used another partition on a new HD, and did the same -- RH7.2 and
> Eagle 4.09r2.  Same exact problem.

Once you know an app is disfunctional, you shouldn't even be running it
from any of your normal user accounts. Never know what it might mess up.
Create another user for testing just that app.

Have a :) day!

jb

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2003\04\04@154727 by Herbert Graf

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> >Does it actually freeze the machine or just the GUI?
> >
> >Can you telnet in from another box on the network and kill the app that
> >hosed the GUI?
> >
> >How about attaching a serial device to a com port for an ASCII console?
>
> Why not just flip to a non-GUI terminal?  Isn't it something like
> CTRL-Shift-F1,F2,etc..?

       While in the GUI an ALT-Shift-F1 will bring you to a terminal screen (in
fact any F key except 11 and 12 would work, F7 goes back to the GUI screen.
While on a terminal screen you can just press ALT-Fkey to switch virtual
terminals.
       If all else fails a telnet in from another machine or through the serial
port (unless disabled) will almost always work (I have seen a hang where
even that didn't work). TTYL

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2003\04\04@164635 by Alex Harford

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On Fri, 2003-04-04 at 11:29, Herbert Graf wrote:
> > >Does it actually freeze the machine or just the GUI?
> > >
> > >Can you telnet in from another box on the network and kill the app that
> > >hosed the GUI?
> > >
> > >How about attaching a serial device to a com port for an ASCII console?
> >
> > Why not just flip to a non-GUI terminal?  Isn't it something like
> > CTRL-Shift-F1,F2,etc..?
>
>         While in the GUI an ALT-Shift-F1 will bring you to a terminal screen (in
> fact any F key except 11 and 12 would work, F7 goes back to the GUI screen.
> While on a terminal screen you can just press ALT-Fkey to switch virtual
> terminals.
>         If all else fails a telnet in from another machine or through the serial
> port (unless disabled) will almost always work (I have seen a hang where
> even that didn't work). TTYL

Actually, in the GUI, Ctrl-Alt-Fn key switches to a different console.

Ctrl-Alt-Backspace should kill X.

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2003\04\04@165923 by Herbert Graf

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> Ctrl-Alt-Backspace should kill X.

       In my experience Ctrl-Alt-Backspace, depending on how things are set up,
will simply restart X, that may be enough for most. TTYL

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2003\04\04@181213 by jim barchuk

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Hello Herbert!

On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Herbert Graf wrote:

>         While in the GUI an ALT-Shift-F1 will bring you to a terminal
> screen (in fact any F key except 11 and 12 would work, F7 goes back to
> the GUI screen. While on a terminal screen you can just press ALT-Fkey
> to switch virtual terminals.

Redhat is CRL-ALT-Fx. Other dists may vary? ALT-SHIFT-Fx does nothing on
mine.

Actually on Q I left off 'the list' was 'what's yer wm?' Others may vary?
I doubt it though, always thought it was a standard linux thing, nothing
to do tieh wm or GUI.

Up to 7.2, as far as I've gone, there are only 6 vts by default F1-F6.
None go by default to a GUI AFAIK. OTOH -might- vary is -GUI- if default
at -boot- time which I have never done.

>         If all else fails a telnet in from another machine or through
> the serial port (unless disabled) will almost always work (I have seen a
> hang where even that didn't work). TTYL

Yeah, a few times for me too but they were hardware failures.

Have a :) day!

jb

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2003\04\04@181637 by jim barchuk

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Hi Herbert!

On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Herbert Graf wrote:

> > Ctrl-Alt-Backspace should kill X.
>
>         In my experience Ctrl-Alt-Backspace, depending on how things are
> set up, will simply restart X, that may be enough for most. TTYL

Again a weird one. Normally, except for pushing dialog box buttons, or
root killing the server CTL-ALT-BACKSPACE is the only way to shut off X.

Again, are you on RH <=7.2, and/or is GUI default for you at boot, and/or
have you done anything to 'modify' wm behavior?

Have a :) day!

jb

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2003\04\04@184610 by Herbert Graf

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> On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Herbert Graf wrote:
> Up to 7.2, as far as I've gone, there are only 6 vts by default F1-F6.
> None go by default to a GUI AFAIK. OTOH -might- vary is -GUI- if default
> at -boot- time which I have never done.

       With X running go to a virtual terminal and then try vt 7 (through F7), it
goes back to X. This has been the case in every version of Redhat I've
tried, including everything 6+.
       There is no "default" when it comes to booting to the GUI, it's a choice
during install with Redhat, I long ago set it to default to GUI bootup, no
need to have the extra step there.

> >         If all else fails a telnet in from another machine or through
> > the serial port (unless disabled) will almost always work (I have seen a
> > hang where even that didn't work). TTYL
>
> Yeah, a few times for me too but they were hardware failures.

       Not for me. In fact I once crashed a Sun Ultra30 so bad that the only
solution was a power cycle, no response at all, not even through the
management port. TTYL

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2003\04\04@184619 by PicDude

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jim barchuk wrote:


> Was it an -install- or an -upgrade-? ...
Fresh install on a fresh RH7.2 system.


> Are you running it as user or root? If root, be aware that...
Yep -- root.  But this should not be an acceptable reason for
a total hang.


> Did you -DL- rpm or tgz?
RPM.


> Are you 'registered' or 'freeware'?
Freeware.


> Is your 7.2 totally 'up2date -u'?
No -- fresh install from a 7.2 CD set.  No other updates.


> Is everything else unrelated to '7.2' up to date, drivers and such?
I'm assuming yes, as it's a fresh install, even though 7.2 is out
of date.  Things like modem, etc I haven't configured yet.
FYI, machine info:  Thinkpad 600x, 500Mhz PIII, 327MB RAM, 30GB HD.
NeoMagic 4MB video card.


> The point is that it's impossible to even start to answer a Q as global as
> 'something's wrong' without very very exact description of how you got
> into a particular condition/state.  All it takes is oe glitch/oddity to
> collapse a house of cards. :)
Agreed.  So I post and see what questions anyone would like answered.
Also trying to see if anyone else had a similar problem.


> Never having used Eagle before, under 7.2/fully up2date w/P4-1.5G, I just
> did a virgin install of tgz and it's fine. I'll get around to really
> running it later because I've wanted to but this was just a quick install
> to see if it works from a 'known virgin baseline.' There must be -another-
> reason why it's whacked for you, not Eagle itself.
Yes, could very well be, but from another perspective, everything
else I've installed works well.


> Which reminds me, what's your CPU? See? There're tons of variables. :)
See above


> (Yes, you said 'again.' But this is 'now' and I'm not gonna run back to
> the archives to review where you've already answered those Qs under other
> instances. All it takes is two minutes of thought on 'how to ask a Q' plus
> another minute of writing to ask it properly.)
Oh boy... someone's having a stressful day.
:-)


> Once you know an app is disfunctional, you shouldn't even be running it
> from any of your normal user accounts. Never know what it might mess up.
> Create another user for testing just that app.
I'm evaluating Linux and various distribs of it to see if I should
completely move over from Win2k.  There is no personal data on these
"experiment" partitions, so it's fine with me.  And I won't move over
until I sort out these bugs like Eagle crashing.


> Have a :) day!

> jb


Trying,
-Neil.

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2003\04\04@184623 by Herbert Graf

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> On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Herbert Graf wrote:
>
> > > Ctrl-Alt-Backspace should kill X.
> >
> >         In my experience Ctrl-Alt-Backspace, depending on how things are
> > set up, will simply restart X, that may be enough for most. TTYL
>
> Again a weird one. Normally, except for pushing dialog box buttons, or
> root killing the server CTL-ALT-BACKSPACE is the only way to shut off X.
>
> Again, are you on RH <=7.2, and/or is GUI default for you at boot, and/or
> have you done anything to 'modify' wm behavior?

       Standard RH install, one with Redhat7.3 (my laptop), one with Redhat8.0
(the win2k/linux dual boot machine I'm using now, I'm downloading 9 from a
mirror as we speak, i'm not part of the RHN).
       Both are set to graphical logic, I can't see a reason to boot up in text
mode anymore these days.

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2003\04\04@184628 by PicDude

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Many people wrote:

[many things]


> Does it actually freeze the machine or just the GUI?
The machine except the mouse.


> Did ctrl-alt-F2 (say) return you to a text login?

> Why not just flip to a non-GUI terminal?  Isn't it something
> like CTRL-Shift-F1,F2,etc..?

None of the bail-out key-sequences I know work.  Ctrl-Alt-F2
(or any other F-key), Ctrl-shift-Fx, Ctrl-Alt-Bkspc, etc, etc.


> Can you telnet in from another box on the network and kill the
> app that hosed the GUI?
> How about attaching a serial device to a com port for an ASCII
> console?

Only one machine here.  Operating on skeleton equipment.
Machine is a laptop, that's not even networked.  I boot into
Win2k for now to access emails.  :-(


> Well, what video driver are you using? This sounds like an X/Video
> driver problem.
Hmmm... not sure.  Card is NeoMagic (Thinkpad 600X laptop), and
RH7.2 recognized it properly on installation.  All other apps
(including graphic apps) work properly, and Eagle works very
well if I don't add parts.


> > Again, I'd appreciate it if we did not morph this thread into a
> > Linux vs. Windows debate.
>
> Why would anyone do that?

Bwahaahaahaa!   -- (in case you're kidding.)
Experience.   -- (in case you're really asking.)


Cheers,
-Neil.

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2003\04\05@014415 by Nate Duehr

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> > Is your 7.2 totally 'up2date -u'?
> No -- fresh install from a 7.2 CD set.  No other updates.

You probably should at least consider updating 7.2 with all of the RedHat
errata packages.  RedHat 9.0 was released this week, and RedHat 7.0 and
older are officially end-of-lifed immediately.  7.2 is not far from being
"too old" to support.  RedHat 8.0 is probably worth the download time, since
it's free.  Find a fast mirror and have at it!  :-)

There's a very good chance that the bug is NOT in Eagle -- there has been a
lot of work on X itself since RH 7.2-era original packages were released.
Same thing with Glibc underlying C libraries.  Tons of changes.  Upgrading a
raw 7.2 installation even with an automated tool like up2date and a free
RedHat Network account is relatively painful these days.  (And RHN is turned
off for free users right now, since their servers are under extreme load due
to the RH 9.0 release.)

> I'm evaluating Linux and various distribs of it to see if I should
> completely move over from Win2k.  There is no personal data on these
> "experiment" partitions, so it's fine with me.  And I won't move over
> until I sort out these bugs like Eagle crashing.

That's ultra-safe... but one crash does not make an unstable application.
At least with Linux you can stack trace the application with free tools if
it's misbehaving and see where it dies.  Also the graphical environment is
not integrated into the system so completely that you can't kill it
(usually) and restart it without a reboot.

I regularly work on machines that have been up (not saying this is good, I'd
rather upgrade them but...) for 3 years without a reboot running Linux.
None of them run graphical applications however... they're all servers.  No
need for X on a server.

Nate Duehr, EraseMEnatespam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTnatetech.com

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2003\04\05@023557 by PicDude

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Nate Duehr wrote:
> You probably should at least consider updating 7.2 with all of the RedHat
> errata packages.  RedHat 9.0 was released this week, and RedHat 7.0 and
> older are officially end-of-lifed immediately.  7.2 is not far from being
> "too old" to support.

You're probably right.  I was hoping anything formally released should
be stable enough to at least not crash the system that harshly.


> RedHat 8.0 is probably worth the download time, since
> it's free.  Find a fast mirror and have at it!  :-)

My 26.4k dial-up connection makes me cry though.  (Still moving
into an apartment this weekend, so no cablemodem yet.)  53MB took
me 5.75hrs a couple nights ago, so 900MB of Linux should take just
over 4 days!  It's the year 2003 -- I couldn't stand myself if I
did that. :-)

Was thinking of downloading Slackware as well, so I might have to
go visit a neighbor w/cablemodem this weekend.


{Quote hidden}

I feel sure it's not in Eagle as well, cause the crash is so
"ungraceful".  Any stable Linux should trap an app crash as let
the other apps run.  I was hoping that someone here might've
seen the same issue before.


> > I'm evaluating Linux and various distribs of it to see if I should
> > completely move over from Win2k.  There is no personal data on these
> > "experiment" partitions, so it's fine with me.  And I won't move over
> > until I sort out these bugs like Eagle crashing.
>
> That's ultra-safe... but one crash does not make an unstable application.

Correct.  But it also means that I won't make a complete switch over
to Linux yet.  And that eagle crash is very repeatable.


> At least with Linux you can stack trace the application with free tools if
> it's misbehaving and see where it dies.  Also the graphical environment is
> not integrated into the system so completely that you can't kill it
> (usually) and restart it without a reboot.

Somehow this crash is beyond that as well.  No recovery at all.


> I regularly work on machines that have been up (not saying this
> is good, I'd
> rather upgrade them but...) for 3 years without a reboot running Linux.
> None of them run graphical applications however... they're all
> servers.  No
> need for X on a server.

And this is exactly why I want to make the move to Linux.  Used to
sys admin Ultrix machines and a bit of Solaris in a past life.  And
now I'm getting sick of random Win misbehaviour, and other win
issues.  Unfortunately, I'm not that familiar with Linux, but I'm
getting there..


> Nate Duehr, @spam@nateKILLspamspamnatetech.com

Thanks,
-Neil.

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2003\04\05@121420 by Alex Harford

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On Fri, 2003-04-04 at 23:34, PicDude wrote:
> Nate Duehr wrote:

> > At least with Linux you can stack trace the application with free tools if
> > it's misbehaving and see where it dies.  Also the graphical environment is
> > not integrated into the system so completely that you can't kill it
> > (usually) and restart it without a reboot.
>
> Somehow this crash is beyond that as well.  No recovery at all.

I would be surprised if you weren't able to ssh in (if you had another
networked computer nearby).

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2003\04\05@172836 by jim barchuk

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Hi picdude!

> > Was it an -install- or an -upgrade-? ...
> Fresh install on a fresh RH7.2 system.
>
>
> > Are you running it as user or root? If root, be aware that...

> Yep -- root.  But this should not be an acceptable reason for a total
> hang.

Exactly the opposite. Something that hangs a term as a user 'might' hang
the whole box as root. Or destroy it for that matter. Please do *only*
'root stuff' as root.

> > Did you -DL- rpm or tgz?
> RPM.

I tend to avoid non-RH rpms. Never know 'what' they compiled it against,
how compatible it is with what I'e got.

I strongly suggest compiling from source, especially with a non-up2dated
box. For instance if they compile it even on a 7.2 box, but fully
up2dated, it could be slightly different from what yours needs.

The docs are very clear on how to do the install.

> > Is your 7.2 totally 'up2date -u'?
> No -- fresh install from a 7.2 CD set.  No other updates.

BZZZZT! Thanks for playing 'you bet your system.' :) There're kernel, X,
and glibc upgrades just to start. Regarding your other comment about
'stable formal release,' it's stable and formal only on the day of
release. There're updates before the CD even reaches the shelf.

> > Is everything else unrelated to '7.2' up to date, drivers and such?

> I'm assuming yes, as it's a fresh install, even though 7.2 is out of
> date.  Things like modem, etc I haven't configured yet. FYI, machine
> info:  Thinkpad 600x, 500Mhz PIII, 327MB RAM, 30GB HD. NeoMagic 4MB
> video card.

No, 7.2 is prefectly up to day -if- up2date is run early and often. It
gets all the upgrades taht 8 gets. Impossible to do lately though
automatically with RH9 running right on the heels of 8. I use rpm in 'ftp'
format though and in a few weeks when the smoke clears will get around to
up2date-config -p. :/

There's a site out there that specialises in 'Linux on laptops.' Can't
remember quite where it is but should be easy to google. There -might- be
mention of some little oddity related to hardware. Laptops can be anywhere
from slightly to very weird. Not as bad as it used to be but still a
factor.

> Also trying to see if anyone else had a similar problem.

This is not Win. No one has a system *exactly* like yours, on every
hardware and software level. All it takes is a slight glitch to throw
things off. Example, I was *NEVER* able to run RH7 to RH7.2 as an
-upgrade-. Something to do with SCSI controller. RH had all sorts of
comments and a few suggestions but -never- did solve it.

> > Never having used Eagle before, under 7.2/fully up2date w/P4-1.5G, I
> > just did a virgin install of tgz and it's fine. I'll get around to
> > really running it later because I've wanted to but this was just a
> > quick install to see if it works from a 'known virgin baseline.' There
> > must be -another- reason why it's whacked for you, not Eagle itself.

> Yes, could very well be, but from another perspective, everything
> else I've installed works well.

I've had odd software once in a while that doesn't work either, or behaves
weirdly, for whatever reason. Usually not as topic-specific though as
Eagle is and was easy to simply find something else.

> > (Yes, you said 'again.' But this is 'now' and I'm not gonna run back to
> > the archives to review where you've already answered those Qs under other
> > instances. All it takes is two minutes of thought on 'how to ask a Q' plus
> > another minute of writing to ask it properly.)

> Oh boy... someone's having a stressful day.
> :-)

AAMOF yes. :)

> > Once you know an app is disfunctional, you shouldn't even be running
> > it from any of your normal user accounts. Never know what it might
> > mess up. Create another user for testing just that app.

> I'm evaluating Linux and various distribs of it to see if I should
> completely move over from Win2k.  There is no personal data on these
> "experiment" partitions, so it's fine with me.  And I won't move over
> until I sort out these bugs like Eagle crashing.

OK that's cool too. I'm not into multiboot systems so that hadn't occurred
to me.

Check that Linux for laptops site, might have a slight slue.

Have a :) day!

jb

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