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PICList Thread
'[EE:] New FTDI USB option'
2006\05\20@014157 by Denny Esterline

picon face
Has anybody used these yet?
http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/EvaluationKits/TTL-232R.htm

>From the site:
"The TTL-232R uses a FT232RQ chip which is housed within the USB "A" connector. A 1.8 meter (6 foot) cable is terminated with a 6 way 0.1" pitch header socket which provides access to the Transmit (Tx), Receive (Rx), RTS#, and CTS#, as well as VCC (5V) and GND."


Reading the datasheet says it can be run in bit bang modes too, makes for some interesting options.
They're available in the states through Mouser for $20.

-Denny



2006\05\20@130041 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
They work GREAT, Denny. smaller chip than before, and NO
clock is needed; in fact it can SUPPLY 6M/12M/24M your choice.
The clock is sync'd to the USB Port clock, so is very precise.

There is another neat feature of their latest driver... You can tell it
to maintain the SAME comm port (turning off PC power normally
causes the VCP ports to shuffle around).

Finally, you can write descriptions into the device and WinXP will
display them when the product powers up and enumerates!

I designed in the chip twice this year.

--Bob

Denny Esterline wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\05\20@144347 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face
On Sat, 20 May 2006 10:00:29 -0700, you wrote:

>They work GREAT, Denny. smaller chip than before, and NO
>clock is needed; in fact it can SUPPLY 6M/12M/24M your choice.
>The clock is sync'd to the USB Port clock, so is very precise.

..although a little jittery - you can still use an external clock/resonator if you want a more
stable clock, e.g. at the highest baudrates


>Finally, you can write descriptions into the device and WinXP will
>display them when the product powers up and enumerates!

This was also true of the previous ones

They are also doing a couple of neat solutions for people not wanting to integrate the chip -
a very small pinned module,

http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/EvaluationKits/MM232R.htm

and also a cable with the chip built into the plug

http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/EvaluationKits/TTL-232R.htm


2006\05\20@153814 by Randy Glenn

picon face
Let's not forget that the EEPROM is now integrated, so that any custom
settings are saved in the single package. I only wish they'd do the
same for the FT2232 (as well as move it to QFN) - working on a
synchronous serial interface that could use to be a bit smaller.

On 5/20/06, Bob Axtell <spam_OUTengineerTakeThisOuTspamcotse.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\05\21@010430 by Denny Esterline

picon face
> They work GREAT, Denny. smaller chip than before, and NO
> clock is needed; in fact it can SUPPLY 6M/12M/24M your choice.
> The clock is sync'd to the USB Port clock, so is very precise.

Glad to here it, but this one isn't *just* the chip. They've embedded the chip in the USB "A" plug and added 6 feet of cable terminated to a female 0.1" header connection.

With four I/O pins with the ability to do bit bang, is anybody else thinking "trivial low voltage PIC programmer"?

-Denny


{Quote hidden}

2006\05\21@054738 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Denny Esterline wrote:
>> They work GREAT, Denny. smaller chip than before, and NO
>> clock is needed; in fact it can SUPPLY 6M/12M/24M your choice.
>> The clock is sync'd to the USB Port clock, so is very precise.
>>    
>
> Glad to here it, but this one isn't *just* the chip. They've embedded the chip in the USB "A" plug and added 6 feet of cable terminated to a female 0.1" header connection.
>
> With four I/O pins with the ability to do bit bang, is anybody else thinking "trivial low voltage PIC programmer"?
>  
I looked at that, too, but I think it is too slow to be practical as a
programmer.

--Bob

{Quote hidden}

2006\05\21@060400 by Denny Esterline

picon face
> > Glad to here it, but this one isn't *just* the chip. They've embedded the chip in the USB "A" plug and added 6 feet of cable terminated to a female 0.1" header connection.
> >
> > With four I/O pins with the ability to do bit bang, is anybody else thinking "trivial low voltage PIC programmer"?
> >  
> I looked at that, too, but I think it is too slow to be practical as a
> programmer.

It's just a thought that crossed my mind when looking at it for a "normal" project.

With the recent discussion about "bootstrapping" your own PIC development tools....
If one could use the FTDI serial cable to bit bash a bootloader into a simple chip in low voltage mode, then reconnect the same cable to the UART... Even something like the WISP would be possible, assuming the programmer's proccessor can be LVP.

-Denny


2006\05\21@061318 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> > With four I/O pins with the ability to do bit bang, is
> anybody else thinking "trivial low voltage PIC programmer"?
> >  
> I looked at that, too, but I think it is too slow to be
> practical as a programmer.

But maybe to download a bootloader (just once)?

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\05\21@064135 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face
On Sun, 21 May 2006 02:47:36 -0700, you wrote:

>Denny Esterline wrote:
>>> They work GREAT, Denny. smaller chip than before, and NO
>>> clock is needed; in fact it can SUPPLY 6M/12M/24M your choice.
>>> The clock is sync'd to the USB Port clock, so is very precise.
>>>    
>>
>> Glad to here it, but this one isn't *just* the chip. They've embedded the chip in the USB "A" plug and added 6 feet of cable terminated to a female 0.1" header connection.
>>
>> With four I/O pins with the ability to do bit bang, is anybody else thinking "trivial low voltage PIC programmer"?
>>  
>I looked at that, too, but I think it is too slow to be practical as a
>programmer.

But would still be potentially useful, e.g. to provide a firmware progging mechanism for products
that use a lower-end PIC wich doesn't have  self-programming capability.

My only criticism of the chip is that they didn't provide a 4MHz clock-out option, A lot of PIC apps
out there use 4MHz and this would have made upgrading slightly easier, and would have been trivial
to implement,

2006\05\21@115412 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
{Quote hidden}

That would work, I think.

--Bob

2006\05\21@115754 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Mike Harrison wrote:
{Quote hidden}

No, but a SOT23 flipflop could divide the 6Mhz by 2, could you use 3Mhz?
or use a dual FF wired as divide by 3 and use the 12Mhz
to get 4 Mhz?

--Bob

2006\05\21@190539 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face
On Sun, 21 May 2006 08:57:53 -0700, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

That kinda defeats the point of the minimum component count though... in practice I just modify the
code to run at 6MHz. My point was simply that 4MHz would have been a very useful addition to the
selection for minimal extra silicon.


2006\05\22@143504 by Hazelwood Lyle

flavicon
face

>
> Glad to here it, but this one isn't *just* the chip. They've
> embedded the chip in the USB "A" plug and added 6 feet of
> cable terminated to a female 0.1" header connection.

> > > www.ftdichip.com/Products/EvaluationKits/TTL-232R.htm
> > >
> > > >From the site:
> > > "The TTL-232R uses a FT232RQ chip which is housed within
> the USB "A" connector. A 1.8 meter (6 foot) cable is
> terminated with a 6 way 0.1" pitch header socket which
> provides access to the Transmit (Tx), Receive (Rx), RTS#, and
> CTS#, as well as VCC (5V) and GND."
>

And for the low-voltage crowd:
This TTL-232R also comes in a 3.3 volt version. (TTL-232R-3V3)
The supply is still +5V, but the Tx,Rx,RTS and CTS are at 3.3 Volt levels.

Looks very handy, though I'm still "Old School" at 5 Volts for my projects.

LyleHaze

2006\05\23@071509 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Sun, May 21, 2006 at 01:03:43AM -0400, Denny Esterline wrote:
> > They work GREAT, Denny. smaller chip than before, and NO
> > clock is needed; in fact it can SUPPLY 6M/12M/24M your choice.
> > The clock is sync'd to the USB Port clock, so is very precise.
>
> Glad to here it, but this one isn't *just* the chip. They've embedded the chip in the USB "A" plug and added 6 feet of cable terminated to a female 0.1" header connection.
>

> With four I/O pins with the ability to do bit bang, is anybody else
> thinking "trivial low voltage PIC programmer"?

Hey! I knew I should have trademarked that name! ;-)

At $20 USD in singles it's only a twice as much as a traditional USB to
serial cable. Does the part guarantee proper sync of bit banged signals?

BAJ

2006\05\23@085503 by Hazelwood Lyle

flavicon
face

> > With four I/O pins with the ability to do bit bang, is anybody else
> > thinking "trivial low voltage PIC programmer"?
>
> Hey! I knew I should have trademarked that name! ;-)
>
> At $20 USD in singles it's only a twice as much as a
> traditional USB to
> serial cable. Does the part guarantee proper sync of bit
> banged signals?
>

I believe the "Bit Banged" data is clocked out at a rate
determined by the baud rate generator, possibly 4X that rate.

The BRG on these chips is pretty flexible. I've written
the code to support arbitrary baud rate selection, but it's
not in front of me right now.

I'll not worry too much about bit bang mode until the normal
comms modes are working well for me.

I am thinking of making a learning IR remote product with
this cable and very few additional parts, using bit banged mode.
I need to complete the drivers for OS4 first.

Lyle

2006\05\23@181243 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> At $20 USD in singles

If you are referring to the chip you'd better check
http://www.voti.nl/shop/p/IC-FT232RL-SMD.html

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\05\24@074232 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Tue, May 23, 2006 at 08:54:57AM -0400, Hazelwood Lyle wrote:
>
> > > With four I/O pins with the ability to do bit bang, is anybody else
> > > thinking "trivial low voltage PIC programmer"?
> >
> > Hey! I knew I should have trademarked that name! ;-)
> >
> > At $20 USD in singles it's only a twice as much as a
> > traditional USB to
> > serial cable. Does the part guarantee proper sync of bit
> > banged signals?
> >
>
> I believe the "Bit Banged" data is clocked out at a rate
> determined by the baud rate generator, possibly 4X that rate.

I wasn't too concerned about the speed. By sync I mean if you take
I/O pin A low, then toggle I/O pin B low then high, finally raising
I/O pin A high again, that those signals will occur in that order.

With modem control signals on cheap USB cables, no such guarantees
exists.

BAJ

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